Emerald

Absolutely... emotion ALWAYS trumps logic. That’s actually a huge facet of the point I’m making. Don’t go for any guy who feels emotionally lukewarm to you. But my experience has been that it takes a few months for the emotion to hit a fever pitch. It’s like a very slow boil. And it’s that heart-centered fever pitch that makes me soften and be motivated to merge with a man. You see, I find the IDEA of a relationship unappetizing. They seem really boring to me when I see others in them. And unless I have feelings for someone, the thought of finding a relationship doesn’t compel me. And sex is a bit ‘meh’ without the fever pitch too. So, I really need to be completely drowning in a river of loving, erotic emotions to really soften up and feel compelled toward seeking a relationship with given man. For a guy I just met, (if I actually allowed myself to be receptive to his advances)... he can maybe hit 3 or 4 out of 10 if he’s really good with seduction because the loins-centered feelings can still be aroused without the slow boiling required for the heart/centered feelings. And pick-up works for evoking mostly loins-centered feelings. But from my experience, I can tell you that that’s really not that motivating, unless you’re horny or lonely... or you you’re more worried about simply having a relationship rather than seeking a quality emotional experience. This is why, even if I’m only looking at this through the lens of the potential for feeling certain emotions, I recommend being unreceptive to cold approaches. It’s a bit like saying, “Don’t spoil your appetite on the McDonalds hamburger of feeling-states, when you can be patient and hold out for the 5-star restaurant dish of feeling-states.” There’s just a clear qualitative difference in the feelings your capable of experiencing with a man you’ve known a while and had time to build up the intimacy, tension, and anticipation with... compared to the quality of emotion capable of being experienced with a guy you just met... even if he’s a bonafide seduction master. So, my recommendation to women is to stay non-receptive to any guy who’s Johnny on the spot. Just make it clear to him in the first minute that you’re not interested and he’ll move on to the next. It’s honestly as easy as hanging up on a telemarketer. Then just save your appetite for a while until a man in your circle really sparks your interest.

Yep! For men (especially men with a small social circle), pick up is useful as attracting is the main challenge. For women, attracting isn’t that much of a challenge, so there are much slower and more gratifying ways to meet and get to know a man just through organic socializing. Sorting the wheat from the chaff is the main challenge for women. So, even though I get why a lot of men do cold approach and can see why it’s useful to them, I would consider it poor strategy for a woman to invest any time or energy into men who try to sell themselves to you immediately.

It would be very similar to the feelings you have for your closest friends. So, if you can tell when there is a genuine give and take of love in your platonic friendships, then you can see if your friendship dynamic feels similarly strong with your romantic partner. Basically, does it feel like you’re good friends?

It’s hard for me to articulate it because many man are still capable of loving who are also dealing with trauma and dysfunction. So, there’s no wrote disqualifying behavior that, “If he does ____ he definitely doesn’t love you. A man can be pretty terrible and still love you... not that it would be wise to continue this relationship. But generally, you’ll be able to tell by looking past the sexual/romantic layers of the relationship and seeing how strong the friendship bond is between you two.

And that’s okay. Plenty of women will still be open to pick up. Bars and clubs aren’t going out of style anytime soon. I just don’t recommend it for women who are looking for a relationship. It’s not a very good strategy for getting the type of relationship experiences that most women want.

Thank you. ? The social circle thing works well for warm approach as a man too. And a wide social circle also conveys social status. It’s a much better way to find a compatible partner. But you’ll have more quantity of dates/sex with cold approach as it’s a numbers game. It’s just usually not as good as the social circle for cultivating relationships.

If you’re doing pick up, go ahead and be clear about your intentions up front. It will get you laid more often. But that’s your agenda... not a woman’s agenda. I recommend to women to just avoid men who cold approach and show sexual interest too quickly (unless she’s only looking for sex). This ‘rushing in’ that pick up oriented guys learn to do can be a red flag... but even if it’s not, it just isn’t emotionally stimulating enough to feel that yearning desire to merge with a man, tbh. Women are like water in a tea kettle... we take a while to get hot enough to boil. And if a man tries to make tea with me right away when the water’s still ice cold and I’m not even on the burner yet, I won’t have any desirous feelings. It will be as boring as talking to a telemarketer and potentially even a bit annoying if he’s doing it in a context that isn’t a night club or bar where cold approach is socially acceptable. And I also recommend women adopt an unreceptive way of responding to men who show sexual interest too quickly. You’re wise as a woman to screen it out because you send a clear message that you don’t accept spam and that you expect higher quality male attention that’s more meaningful and pointed directly towards you in particular, as opposed to being pointed at any and all attractive women this man meets. It’s honestly, much better and more exciting and natural feeling for women to find men by cultivating a rich social circle. And then, as organic interactions happen, feelings for one of the men in that social circle will typically start to arise. And over a month or so, those feelings for that man will get to a fever pitch. And the most fun part is when you’re really into a guy and things are still a little ambiguous and you and the guy are spending more and more time together and being kind of playful. And then, the breaking point comes... and usually that’s where things get physical. That’s what it’s like to develop more organic relationships via having a dynamic wider social circle.

Wrong! I said it’s wise not to date men outside your social circle if you’re a woman. A healthy social circle is like hundreds and hundreds of people that you have a platonic relationship to. And in that social circle you have mostly acquaintances. For example, when I was in college I had a few close friends, 30-40 or so more casual friends that I’d chill with at parties, and hundreds of acquaintances. And I recommend selecting a man who’s either in the more casual friendship category or the acquaintance category. But also, continually meeting new people to add to your wider circle to keep it dynamic. So, you definitely don’t need to be best buddies with a guy before dating him. I don’t recommend that. Just exist in proximity to him for 2 or 3 months, to give time for feelings to arise and to get to know his general MO.

This is the exact point I'm making in the OP. That which is true and that which is useful are sometimes not one in the same. For example, if you tell your child that they better brush their teeth every night or the tooth fairy will get mad... it's not true. But it is useful if you're a parent and your agenda is to get your kid to brush their teeth. Another example, people in an old village bury seeds in the ground to feed to a magical Earth deity. And if the Earth deity enjoys the seeds, it will provide food for the village. Is it true? Absolutely not. Is it useful? Definitely. The same thing is true with the narratives around female sexuality in pick up. It's useful because it gets guys to do things more effectively. But the narrative itself is a deep misunderstanding of what female sexuality is actually like. It is a Stage Orange version of the magical thinking found in Stage Purple. The only difference is that it sounds sciency and rational. So, it's a more convincing fairy tale... especially because it's useful.

The desire to be understood only applies to men I’m interested in.

Thank you!

Well said!

Intimacy... which means being seen and understood by your another person... is a relationship need for women. It's also a relationship need for a man. Intimacy serves as the foundation for a good relationship. It's just that men can still experience random sex with a woman without intimacy and still feel relatively satisfied with the experience. For women, random sex without intimacy is high risk/low reward. The real spice of the relationship for women, is the intimacy. And without that, a sexual relationship with a man is pretty boring as it doesn't even scratch the surface of what's genuinely stimulating for us. So, don't project men's insecurities onto women's sexuality and relationship needs. It would be like you saying, "Most men need sex to feel fulfilled in a relationship" and I would respond by saying... "That's just the insecurity talking." But no... it is genuinely something most men would require in order to feel that a relationship to a woman is fulfilling. So, from the female perspective, a relationship where the man can't/doesn't see you or understand you is as dull and dry as a relationship with a woman who never expresses sexual desire for you.

I would be interacting enthusiastically with the man in this scenario and making it clear that I like him. I wouldn’t be cold about it. I just would set firmer boundaries and let him do more of the legwork during the courtship phase. But once an actual relationship forms 50/50 is good. This list is about the initial phase of dating, where a woman is wise to set very firm boundaries and vet a man’s character, compatibility, level of interest, and vision for the future before investing too much of herself.

You could do 50/50 if you want to. But I don’t recommend it before a committed relationship has been formed. Until then, let the man do about 3/4 of the legwork. Once you have a committed relationship, things can and should even out. But my advice to women in the courtship phase, is to pursue less than he does. And this is because it will shake out better for the woman this way. And if he’s willing to put in the effort, then that’s a very good sign that he’s really interested in you for an actual relationship instead of just as an easygoing woman to have a little fun with for a while. And it isn’t about playing games. It’s about setting proper boundaries and avoiding getting too involved too quickly with men who are not looking for what you’re looking for. It’s about compatibility and vetting a man’s level of interest/commitment prior to getting serious with him.

When I’m talking about pick-up, I’m talking mostly about cold approach. But personal development done for the purpose of attracting women is a lot different than personal development done for the sake of becoming your best self. The former type of personal development will always be delimited to the tastes of the average woman because it is always about gaining more mass appeal. So, it won’t take you into your full potential because most things designed specifically for mass appeal must be watered down to fit the sensitivities, level of development, and perspective of the average person. And the average person (male or female) is not very well developed. The latter type of personal development is only limited by the limits of your own imagination. And as a perk, this will make you truly magnetic and infinitely more attractive and admirable to women on the same wavelength as you as you will truly embody your unique masculine energy. And you won’t have scarcity... though you also might lose some mass appeal. But the women who are interested in you will be more prone to respecting and admiring you for exactly who you are.

I didn’t say a man couldn’t become more attractive. If he gets over his self-esteem issues, develops himself, and learns to socialize more, he will be more magnetic and attractive. But this is more general personal development. But beyond learning the absolute basics of what women respond to sexually, pick-up is honestly mostly a placebo. It’s like Dumbo’s magic feather. Dumbo thinks he can’t fly unless he’s holding his magic feather, until he realizes that he had mistakenly attributed his innate ability to fly to a placebo. The fact of the matter is that women are usually attracted to men. And you are a man. That’s honestly doing the majority of your legwork for you as long as your self-esteem is okay and you are able to carry on a normal conversation. And if a sizable percentage of women are horny enough or lonely enough and you’re above her looks- threshold, she may be receptive to sex with you. And that is the low-hanging fruit that cold approach is good for. There are just a lot of female purity myths that give men the impression that sexual acceptance from a woman is difficult to find, and also that if they’ve gotten a woman to sleep with them that it means something about their general desirability and quality in the eyes of women. But to really have more women desiring you, pick up can be like 10% of your focus just to get some experience. The other 90% is about developing yourself into the best version of you. That’s the thing that really moves a woman and makes her knees weak.

Again, I already said I understand why pick up exists. This isn’t a “don’t do pick up” thread. Go out and meet and have sex with as many women as you want. The thread is about the useful, but still incorrect, distortions of the pick up perspective and how that leaves men misunderstanding women’s actual needs and leaving them unsatisfied and underfucked. So, pick up only really works for men having their needs and desires met. Genuine female desire doesn’t really come into the picture with pick up beyond the most surface level stuff. Pick up doesn’t teach you about what women really want or need. It just teaches you how to approach and play the numbers game until you can harvest the low hanging fruit. So understand that, when you do pick up, the woman may tell you that she’s satisfied in hopes it will help her get the intimacy she’s looking for from you. But this is likely self-deception because sex by itself (from the female perspective) is pretty high-risk/low-reward without the cultivation of deeper love and intimacy. And a one-night-stand with some pick up guy will never scratch that itch. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t do it though. Just understand that the experience you’re having is a lot more interesting than the experience she’s probably having.

If that’s your agenda that’s fine. You don’t need to understand women to get sex. It’s a numbers game at the end of the day. If you keep approaching, you’ll eventually find a woman who’s horny and thus open to a one-night stand with you... or simply one who’s lonely or lacking boundaries. Just don’t kid yourself into thinking that you’ve satisfied her on any level that women generally would consider meaningful. Also, understand that most women will rightly screen you out because most women aren’t interested in the experience you’re offering.