Emerald

Haha! I love that picture of Jordan Peterson. I think it comes down to the traumas associated with anti-feminine indoctrination. This has gotten better with the widespread acceptance of the LGBTQ community, because lots of people are more accepting of men and women who deviate from gender norms. And this benefits society a lot because it takes the pressure off of everyone (including straight, cisgendered folk) to conform to narrow gender roles. But having grown up in a small redneck town in Florida where gender roles were still firm in the 90s, there was a real sense of femininity being a sign of weakness for males and females alike. That's why I became very misogynistic at a young age and very resistant to anything traditionally feminine. But it was especially egregious to be feminine for boys/men. It would guarantee that you'd be bullied and branded as gay... of which homophobia was just the norm then. I was even quite homophobic at the time just because it seen as just the way things are. It wasn't until I was about 13 and had bi and gay friends that I realized that I was being a jerk. So, there is a pretty rough patriarchal hierarchy that a great many boys/men have been indoctrinated with and learned. And everything about that hierarchy creates a constant anxiety about where each man falls in relation to other men in terms of adherence to the religion of masculinity. And level of masculinity is one of the main things that's scrutinized within this hierarchy. Also, as an extension of that, success with women is scrutinized within that hierarchy. If fact, I'd say that most men who are really focused towards have a lot of sex with a lot of women are really coming from a concern for where they fall in the masculinity hierarchy... and not as much with the potential for pleasure within the sexual experiences with those women. The concern is more one of status than one of pleasure. So given that there are tons of social expectations and social traumas that come as a result of deviating from those expectations, it makes sense that men are really caught up in that patriarchal hierarchy, even as it chews up their self-esteem. There's also a lot of meaning there that must be unlearned. If you imagine someone who has been told that the meaning of their life is to earn a lot of money. And that person creates their identity in relation to that understanding of "the meaning of life is to earn money." And then, it's like money is abolished. And for better or for worse, that person has that identity broken down because the thing they were basing their identity off of no longer exists. It would be the same thing to let go of patriarchal hierarchical understanding. There's so much experience and meaning and identity shaping going on there. It would be a real death to let go of. Like a compete upending of the worldview... which is hard for anyone. And I would guess that this understanding of society wasn't something that just so happened to fall into place. I think it's very useful for elite men (and elite people in general) to keep non-elite men playing this losing game. That way, these men keep directing their anger and aggression downward towards other non-elite men and women... as opposed to getting together and directing all that masculine aggression upwards towards the powers that be. If you can keep men playing this game, it's a way of diffusing and sublimating their revolutionary power-disrupting energy towards even more marginalized people... and thus enforcing the power structures that be. It's the oldest trick of the powers that be. Get the men to use their privilege and power to further subjugate women so that they don't band together and disrupt the powers that be... and further enforce the subjugation of the powers that be by subjugating women. Get the white people to use their privilege and power to further subjugate non-white people so that the white people don't band together and disrupt the powers that be... and further enforce the subjugation of the powers that be by subjugating non-white people. None of it is on accident. When you create a hierarchy, you can keep the people always looking to level up while stepping on the people below them. And this is how those at the very top keep their power. And the rest of the hierarchy polices and subjugates itself.

My point is that there are absolutely ZERO men that exist that will be universally panned by all of woman-kind. I know it might feel that way. But it's just not going to happen. If you're a man... even if you're a solid 1... there will be women out there who are interested in you. Will it be harder to find if you're a 1? Yes. Will you eventually find it? Also yes. And at any rate, most of the guys who are Incels are average guys. There's nothing stopping them from find a girlfriend but them.

I grew up in a relatively small town. And so, I knew lots of people in the wider town. It was a very social town. And there were few places to hang out. But we'd find them. There was one place called the Vinyard which was a church that had created a teen night. That's where I knew Walrus boy and so many other people. And isn't just guys that I know who suck who got girlfriends. It's almost EVERY guy that I was acquainted with (regardless of whether or not they sucked). There are plenty of guys who are unattractive and socially awkward... and even some guys who are just creepy/crappy people. But because they're social, they've had girlfriends. I honestly think this is a too much social media and too little face to face social interaction issue. So, it's a shame that so many guys misattribute their lack of success with girls as having to do with some flaw in them... and not what it ACTUALLY is. And that's a lack of social outlets and/or an unwillingness/discomfort with social situations.

Trust me... I've known plenty of social guys who suck. In fact, all the guys I've know who have sucked have been social... because that's how I knew them. I wouldn't know that they suck unless I was social with them. And I've found, that there can be absolutely delightful shy loner guys and horribly creepy weird guys who suck that are very social. Also, you don't really need to be liked by everyone in your social circle to have your social circle. Everyone knew Walrus Boy. And he was never by himself. He always had friends and acquaintances around. And that's because he made a point to go out and socialize. Like I said, many people in his social circle felt uncomfortable around him. But he was still able to find some people who tolerated him and even some people who like him. He dated quite a few girls in his wider social circle. And if you met the guy, you'd recognize that NO ONE is truly an Incel (INVOLUNTARILY celibate). If this guy isn't an Incel, then absolutely no one on the planet is.

The solution is not easy. But it is simple. It's not easy to go and be social. There's a lot of bravery that it takes and lots of inner work and logistics to be taken care of. But the solution is simple... go socialize. That's what needs to happen. And the obstacle is the path.

Trust me when I say, I've known MANY guys who "suck" across the board. But these guys who suck were also part of my wider social circle and had their own wider social circle. And thus, they were able to get girlfriends. For example, there was this guy that I used to know when I was a teenager that everyone called Walrus Boy because he looked like a walrus (sparse white mustache and all). And he was super awkward and not a very nice guy. And foremost, he was very creepy. He was the type of guy that most girls would specifically avoid interacting with. And yet... he had a wide social circle. And he had plenty of girlfriends over the years I was acquainted with him... though I was perplexed about that. Trust me when I say that I'm shocked that anyone is an incel. I've seen absolute trainwrecks of guys get girlfriends. But the thing that differentiates these guys is just that they were out socializing with a bunch of people.

Honestly, up until the later years of high school when I found myself, I was definitely someone who was on the bottom of the barrel in terms of social status in most social contexts. And so my friends (male and female) have usually also been people who would be considered nerds or social outcasts. People who, in school, would be part of the unpopular crowd. And so, a high number of the guys I dated in middle and early high school were nerd guys who were seen as unpopular. And I still have quite a lot of friends who are awkward nerdy guys. And of course, it's a bit harder for them to meet women and start relationships. But you know what, EVERY SINGLE ONE of those guys that I know have had girlfriends. Some of them now have wives. And so, the ONLY factor that I can see that's different between an Incel and my nerdy guy friends is that Incels have a shitty ideology and my friends don't... and that my nerdy guy friends regularly interact socially with both men and women and Incels don't. My nerdy guy friends have male friends and they have female friends. They have a rich social circle of accepting like-minded people around them. These Incel guys are guys who just don't socialize and who are bogged down in victim's mentality and low self-esteem. If they did socialize and resolve their self-esteem issues, they would eventually find a lady who's into them. But they have to stop playing that hierarchical game and trying to match up to some unrealistic standard of masculinity.

What I mostly glean from the article is that patriarchy sets up a power structure where a significant chunk of men never reproduce. That's surprising to me personally. I had assumed a relative parity in terms of the ratio of men and women who reproduce. And this means that the more patriarchal a society is the more that female sexuality will be controlled, commodified, and have a false sense of scarcity applied to it. This is done by applying all kinds of psychological control mechanisms around sexual shame and chastity for women. Hence, why slut shaming has been so prevalent. It keeps women and society at large policing their sexual desires... hence keeping the "commodity" safe. And then, the men who get the shittier end of the stick reproductively speaking, will have a high probability of being culled in a truly patriarchal society because they will be sent to war or to toil away to serve some rich guy. But these men, if they're kept around (as they are now) will keep trying the play the patriachal game that fucks them over in hopes of flipping the power structures in their favor... which requires a nearly revolutionary effort as you're fighting against the powers that be. So it is difficult for them to buck the patriarchal narrative that fucks them, because they see a glimmer of hope to become the top dog. But there is no real freedom there. It's just a very vicious power structure where women are commodified and men are constantly being ranked (with the possibility of being culled for ranking low). Ultimately, I see the solution being already set in motion. In my experience, my attractions don't have an extreme amount do with status and are very intuitive. It's about how I feel. They are also very monogamously oriented and love oriented. I can absolutely only have eyes for someone who is not objectively high status. And my guess is that this is not just me. I think it's how feminine sexuality actually is. I can see that, if women had things more their way and feminine principled traits like socialization and emotional intelligence were encouraged, then there would likely be a less hierarchical relationship set-up. It seems that the facts bear that out. Egalitarian hunter gather societies were 3 to 1 in terms of men and women who reproduced respectively. Where patriarchal societies (with hierarchical ranking and strong control over female sexuality) were 17 to 1 in terms of men and women who reproduced respectively. So, in a similar way to how (because of the way government serves corporations) there is extreme wealth inequality where it is rigged to where the rich get richer and poor get poorer... in an extreme patriarchy (which is not the situation we're in currently even though we still have many patriarchal elements in the system) you have very wealthy men having multiple wives where the bottom 95% of men don't reproduce at all. But overall, I see the solution for the individual Incel or man struggling with hierarchy, being to buck this deeply ingrained patriarchal narrative that tells them that they have to compete on this hierarchy to realize that the game is built so that there are a large number of men who lose it. Within that game, the weak ones are only there to justify the strong. And of course someone's self-esteem will be shit if they're attached to that game. To stop playing that game, all you need to do is be social and meet people... including women. There is a nearly equal number of women to men on the planet. There is no reason for that reproduction disparity to be there at all... especially since women tend to be very aversive to men having mistresses and other wives.

Yes exactly

Without emotions, there is nothing that tells you not to do the things that are harmful to yourself and others. So, if you truly had ZERO emotions at all, you probably wouldn't last very long. It would feel just the same to you to walk up to a bear as to walk into a phone booth.

Get more in touch with the body. Emotions arise as sensations in the body. So, emotional numbness can come about because we're too up in our heads and not connecting to the rest of the body.

Emotion is a human thing. It's what underlies all of our motivations. That would be like saying "Breathing is a female thing. So men shouldn't do it."

Yep!

@ertopolice Here are some really good resources for dating/relationships as a woman. It will help you better understand how certain male/female dynamics in dating works... The channels are by Adrienne Everheart, Helena Hart, and Brian Nox. So, I'll give you a few videos that could be relevant for you.

I wouldn't worry about any of this. Just hang around in spaces where people have a deeper orientation to life and you'll eventually find a woman who appreciates you as you are. Stage Orange women will be very interested in social status, that's true. And for all women, social status will be AN attraction factor in the same way that being tall, fit, or charismatic would be. It is attractive when a man has a certain social status. But most women don't seek out a man who's maxed out in terms of his social status because other factors are more important. A woman who is worth your time, will love you for you. And the social status thing will be more of a compatibility thing than the criterion for attraction. For example, a woman who's worth your time will seek a man at around her level of social status... mostly because that's who will be most compatible. So, a woman who is a college professor would likely be interested in a man who has taken a similar education path. So, she may opt not to date a man who hasn't gotten a degree. And a woman who is a grocery bagger will be okay with dating a guy in similar circumstances to her.

From what she wrote, she seems to be caught up in her masculine side. I honestly questioned at first if this was written by a man who was pretending to be a woman online. But I realized that it actually was a real woman once I got about half-way through. But if a woman is thinking about power and "Is this guy the best I can get?", then she's not really choosing from her heart. She's in a space of logic-mind and hierarchical understanding and superiority/inferiority. And the sex to her is seemingly a way for her to systematically prove her own value to herself. It's a mind game that she's playing with herself. If she were in her feminine side, she would not be in this mindset. She would be more attuned to her emotions and how a guy makes her feel. Usually, when women get caught up in their masculine side like this, it happens because they've had to numb themselves out and create a hard shell. And power becomes very important for safety and for grappling with feelings of low self-esteem and inferiority. There are certain things within this post she made that reminds me of certain coping mechanisms that I've employed at earlier times in my life. And trying to get power this way, unfortunately ends up robbing a woman of her power because she is deriving her power by playing a certain role in the masculine empowerment story. And so she won't be able to find her own empowerment that way, because the story isn't written with her empowerment in mind. My advice to her would be to ask herself why she wants that power? What is that power a currency for? What does it mean to be superior? What does it mean to be inferior?

I make my romantic decisions more off of the feelings that I have for the person. So, I don't specifically search for particular virtues. But I do have some dealbreakers... - The man has to be my equal in terms of intelligence and thoughtfulness - The man has to be a good person - The man has to be on a similar life-path to me. Other than that, I don't specifically try to seek out a man with "x,y, and z" traits. I let my heart make the decision.

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I recommend just touching base with your feelings. This might drive you crazy but... To be up in the head about things and to be worried about whether something is categorically masculine or feminine, is to be stuck in the masculine. Just feel. There's no wrong way to do it.

That's just not going to work.

I see

Many men do like it when women approach. Just look through the thread if you don’t believe me. Why wouldn’t they? It makes it easier for them. But as I’ve said before, it usually isn’t the best idea. Many men may like when a woman approaches, but they don’t usually respond to it with a desire to go deeper.

What emotions were you trying to experience by spending that money on that? Is it just the sexual feelings? Or is there some other emotional experience that you’re seeking?

It can work out sometimes. But overall, it’s far less likely to. So, it isn’t anything I’d recommend to a woman. Mind you, men do like it when women approach because it makes in easier for them. But with the way that male sexuality generally works, it’s not such a good idea. A man’s attraction begins in the lions, then goes to the heart, and then eventually ends up in the head. Women generally go the opposite way where that attraction begins in the mind, then to the heart, and then to the loins. So, approaching a man and making it easy for him, makes it far more likely that his attraction won’t go past the loins. There usually has to be some challenge to slow things down, so that the attraction can rise for him to the heart and mind.

The point is that Leo (as an influencer) is really unwise to just say a one-word “lol” at someone’s post about suicidal ideation. And he did change his post shortly afterwards because he probably realized the same thing. Really, anybody would be unwise to do that... but especially someone with influence. Also, you don’t know this person and what they’re going through. For all you know, the person has attempted suicide before. People commit suicide ALL the time. So, don’t be so sure that a person won’t actually do it.