andyjohnsonman

Leo talks about understanding that he is everything and that he gave birth to himself - he is his mother as everything is consciousness. If direct experience is just awareness free of thought how can he know those things for sure when they are stories created by the mind? Seems paradoxical. I'm not having a go at Leo, it's more of an epistemological question as to how we can know anything. I'm sure many people will answer, "because you are looking for the answers from the mind not from awareness, if you look directly just from awareness then you will see." Well how do we know that is the way to see things and not from thinking. All I've come to realise is that the mind creates stories and that being present in awareness is free from stories and therefore there is no knowing. Thoughts?

@Leo GuraYea it seems quite the complicated affair. Maybe there is no way of measuring truth and the truth being that there is no truth. It must be hard for someone who has found the truth (if you have) to not try to persuade others about this truth as you know the traps of the mind. If i found the truth I would be dying to get others on board I am aware that this is all ego but a problem i discover from time to time is even if i am aware of the ego i let it run for a while.

@Leo Gura Yea it seems like the most important question in all of this work. So from my POV i should continue to question beliefs, stories, the ego and direct experience while at the same time continuing Kriya until my consciousness rises enough that being and knowing merge. At this point being and knowing will no longer be taken on as a dogma? Glad you're back and that your retreat went well. You're a massive inspiration.

I have questioned this duality as i have also questioned non duality. I haven't had any mystical states or non dual experiences although i had some intense mushroom meditation trips that gave me a feeling that there's more. I'm basically saying that the stories the mind creates can be very deceptive and maybe even the subject-object duality being an illusion is also a story. I would love to be wrong tho. As of now i sit as an agnostic like a scientist but the difference being I am aware of the dogmas of the materialist paradigm.

I have questioned this duality as i have also questioned non duality. I haven't had any mystical states or non dual experiences although i had some intense mushroom meditation trips that gave me a feeling that there's more. I'm basically saying that the stories the mind creates can be very deceptive and maybe even the subject-object duality being an illusion is also a story. I would love to be wrong tho. As of now i sit as an agnostic like a scientist but the difference being I am aware of the dogmas of the materialist paradigm.

that's also a story ?

Yea I agree his videos are exceptional for motivation in doing the work. But how can you realise anything when all realisations are thoughts? Thats what i'm trying to tackle. It seems that all we have is awareness of what is. So how can you make claims that you gave birth to yourself and consciousness proceeds materialism, all of that is a thought/story.

I'm not having a dig at Leo or his videos I love them both.

So when Leo talks about all these highly advanced topics on what consciousness is, what god is etc they are essentially just stories created by his mind. We have to just be aware and as soon as a thought arises it becomes a story, hence a lot of what has been taught about the truth is a thought and therefore we don't know if it's true. Which would be the same if your mind comes up with "truths" based on thoughts after awareness.

Surely saying you dont know anything includes within it not knowing whether that statement is true?

I am really starting to think shadow work is the most important aspect in this work as if you cant own the unconscious dark side of yourself then you will become a preacher and moralise all of these teachings from actualized.org onto others. It's not until you truly realise that you have the potential for all of these low conscious values, then can you work on yourself and not project onto others. I'm not sure if Leo has already talked about this or not as I kind of discovered it myself but in my opinion it is the most vital part of spirituality. Thoughts?

Well I read the shadow dance on Leo's booklist and it has exercises in it like listing traits in family and friends that frustrate you these being your shadow. I also find as you become more aware of your limitations and accept yourself for these you can really see that you have the potential within yourself for any low vibrational actions and therefore wont judge or demonise. I think the key is to be mindful of the truth of both sides of what you are while watching out for self deceptions, as well as making lists like i mentioned above.

Anyone tried Tai Chi as a meditation? Is it effective? I'm curious to do try

I just did a 50 minute Kriya session and during Navi Kriya I started laughing uncontrollably for about 10 minutes hysterically. What does this mean? Could it be that in my daily life i have been suppressing laughter and not fully expressing myself?

I was thinking about even though it is an illusion it appears real. To the ego family, friends, hobbies, travel, computer games and the whole of the material world is life and even though you are attached to these things as an ego, not being identified with the ego and all the things that comes with it, is synonymous with death. The part that confuses me is that your true Self is nothingness (which would be death) but also everything (which is life). I suppose this just can't be grappled with using language and rationality but my mind is dying to know the answers to these rationally. I can see how religion has so many dogmas as the power of the mind wanting to know these answers without having the answers leads to just settling on an answer and belief systems.

After listening to this discussion I can see both points of view and got me thinking. For many concepts like a chair, it is important to see it as a concept, as like Peter Ralston states, alot of concepts have meaning to you depending on how you see it: After a walk up a mountain a chair is seen as an object of relaxation, but if you were running away from a crime scene and theres a chair in front of you it would be an annoyance and seen as something that gets in the way. All ideas and concepts are perceptions that can have positive or negative values depending on the motivations of the person seeing the object. In the same way The idea of race and gender can also be used to judge or demonise and are all concepts. So i can see where the postmodernists are coming from. The question is though is race a story that is created by the mind? Joe Rogan debunks this by talking about the inherent biological differences between men and women. For me I think it boils down to When you are born before and ideas have yet to be implanted in your mind, do you see men and women as different without having the label for it? I'm thinking you do and therefore the postmodern spiel of everything being a concept which can be deconstructed would be wrong. I also think after reading The Way of The Superior Man that there is a masculine and feminine and its not about dividing males and females into separate categories as some males are feminine and vice versa.

So I understand that there are many different gods in Hinduism and Brahman is the word for absolute infinity and that Shiva and other gods are basically forms of Brahman (which is technically the same as a banana or any other object, being that they are all forms of the absolute). There seems to be so many different branches of Hinduism, some which are non dual in the way i just described, however, when in India i was talking to an American Hindu who was on a beach doing a Harre Krishna mantra, he was talking about the differences between Hinduism and Buddhism as I was deeply into Buddhism at the time. He claimed that Hinduism believes in an afterlife and was trying to convert me by making me see what is the point in realising Buddha Nature if you just reincarnate as another unconscious entity once your material body dies. He was trying to show me how having faith in an afterlife will make it a reality. For me this wasn't what I understood about Hinduism. Is his way of thinking due to a lack of consciousness and lower spiral dynamics stage? Is hinduism actually like all religions in that the ones who take the scriptures in a dogmatic way as metaphorical are stage blue and it requires a raise in consciousness and mystical experiences (stage turquiose) to understand true Brahman. I would like to learn more about Hinduism as I don't know too much on it does anyone have any recommended reading?

@dimitri Im using JC Stevens book and thats more than enough for a beginner. Its nicely detailed. After a year of JC Stevens I plan to move on to add some advanced techniques from Gamana's book like the Breath of fire.

Yes used the wrong word when i typed perspective as the absolute truth isn't a perspective, but to me it is as i haven't experienced it. However I am open to it. I just want to know your experience of the absolute truth who is typing this message to you now? I understand i can't comprehend this through language as you will say you are typing it. As I am you and we are all one but i just want your experience of the absolute to confirm this.

Ok thanks. What about from an absolute truth perspective. Who am I who is typing these words that you are reading now?

I know from a true self point of view we are all one consciousness but what about from a small self perspective do other ego's exist under the illusion of being ego's or are they a figment of my egoic consciousness like solipsism. From a absolute perspective who am I that is asking you this now? As i am sure I am an individual self from my small self persepctive.

This really is a powerful tool. The last 5 minutes of concentration feels like the start of a magic mushroom trip with lots of patterns and distracts my mind from thought. I also noticed when doing Kriya Pranyama and concentrating the energy on Medulla that "I" am not behind my eyes where I always thought I was. Has anyone else had these type of experiences?

Ah yes Thankyou I see that now I was looking at page99 when the starting procedure is on page 97. Great i'll include this tonight.

I decided against lesson 8 - first part of Kriya Pranyama as you have to imagine a 5 pointed between the eyebrows absorbing negative energy. I just feel this is a little too far field or am I just being closed minded? Is Kriya Pranyama an essential part of Kriya? Should I go back to do this exercise or is it ok to move on if some of the excercises you arent keen on?