Mert

I lost 5 IQ points when he started to define the word "exist".

Sometimes on the path, you think you've transcended something and later it comes back again. Lately, I've been thinking about materialism and it doesn't seem that much of an absurd thing. This is the issue. I'm having a hard time seeing that reality is only my perceptions. Some people agree with that some people don't Here is an example. If I see a train coming and stand in front of it and turn my back. And close my ears. So there is nothing in my perceptions about the train including the idea of it. Im just meditating peacefully on the rails. And boom! the train is going to hit me and I'm going to die. Now you might say that "there was no train because you said that there was no perception of it. And suddenly a new perception occurred and you died. Or you might say your perception changed. But I feel like there is something missing with this explanation. Radical implications of enlightenment (of course for some people) that your perception creates the world or objects. One explanation can be that there is no material but there are other minds who also create reality so if somebody comes from your back and hits you, this only happens because you are in their perception. But what if in the train example there is no one driving the train or seeing this event. Are we going to deny that a train hit me and I died because of that. I am not defending materialism here, I understand the metaphysical implication of it. But I refuse to be lazy and just play the "oh "materialism" is just an idea in your mind" card. Like I said of course if I stop thinking something as material, it's just not. But reality is just way more complicated and I have a thirst to understand. Maybe what I need is a model at this point. Ruper Spira sometimes talks about this "other minds" model but I really need more answers. Let me clarify again don't tell me how materialism cannot be true ultimately. But I need an explanation for "things happening outside my consciousness" and materialism in that sense, even though the ultimate substance is consciousness, doesn't seem to be a bad model.

@remember What I meant was "if you couldn't figure it out like me, then we should stay agnostic" and I cant see a way right now so that's why I'm asking. Seems like empirical knowledge has its limits and at some point we have to make logical inferences.

@Enlightenment No I think we can give a conclusive answer to the simulation theory. Because one of the premises is that there is a "real reality" as opposed to the simulated one. There cannot be a "more real" reality because what would be the measure of this. There is only being. Being is being. That's it. So, In a sense it is possible that we are in a simulation but the ones who simulate us (let's say aliens) wouldn't be the real ones. So if you want you can say all reality is a simulation and simulator is God, which is not different than the common-sense view which is that world being created by God. Or you can say It's all real. It's a language game. But you can't say anything in between.

@Leo Gura Yes, I completely agree with everything you said. We can go directly to the source of experience but other relative stuff requires a different kind of "getting it" and that was what I was after because I'm naturally very curious like you. Of course, getting too stuck in those relatives can be tiring. It's funny how people usually think we can be pretty good at knowing the relative truths but not absolute, but I think its the other way around. Absolute is the simplest one, but there are literally infinite relative truths.

@Leo Gura That's a good explanation and I have a very strong intuition that that's the case. It makes sense too. But also doesn't that mean that my finite mind is all that there is to reality? Don't other people have experiences too? Now, I understand that ultimately all limited minds have to come from infinite consciousness so in that sense "other minds" is just more God. But the question remains unanswered on a relative level. It's like you ask me "Hey what are you watching on your phone?" and I reply "Oh It's just God is watching itself?" Even though that would be absolutely true, the question is still unanswered. So for example in this work, we claim to be empirical right? Even though its a relative question, can I know that there are other minds that perceive something other than what I perceive? I found that we should remain agnostic on this issue on purely empirical grounds. Am I wrong?

@tenta @Leo Gura Yeah I understand that that's duality. I can say that its non-dual or a dream but what I'm interested in is the structure of the dream. So this is where I'm stuck. I understand that no word or concept can describe reality. What I see in front of me right now is not a computer. The concept of computer is a dream we might say. But I'm looking at something right? For example, I can't drink my computer. Now I can sit on the top of the mountain and say "Drinking is a dream too. There Is no one to drink or use the computer. It's all empty nothingness which can't be described". I think a lot of people just memorize this type of knowledge and not think about the ramifications of it. The fact of the matter is there is a structure in what I'm looking at. Now, this is not an argument against its being a dream but how the fuck does that happen? Is it God's will? I hope you can see where I'm coming from. For example, in Leo's "brains don't exist" episode, he makes a very good case that perception affects another perception in the case of brain damage which I totally agree. But how does that happen when the brain is not being perceived? or anything for that matter. So let's say I drink water and the effect of it is that I have to pee. Water is a perception. Sensation to want to pee is a perception. Pee is a perception. But what the fuck is happening between them? For example, the process that water goes through until it becomes pee in my body is lost. Now you can say that process is a perception too. BUT. That process was never perceived by anyone. So, how stuff still happens when no one is looking. Is God perceiving everything all the time? That would be a not a bad explanation. I think that's Berkeley's position.

I feel like I need some insights to advance in my consciousness work. I am at the point where I can recognize the "Nothing/Consciousness/Emptiness" behind the experience but I'm having a hard time merging the two. Because almost all teachers say that(including Leo) that nothing is in the experience right now. But I feel like the experience is real and it's not nothing/consciousness but it's occurring in nothing/consciousness. How can I collapse this duality? I really would like to hear something about this.

I understand that but I think I'm referring to something else. I get to the raw sensations without concepts. So you might say that when you don't conceptualize it, it's nothing but that's not the Nothingness/Emptiness I am talking about. Maybe another way of saying is that I'm trying to become conscious that what I'm looking at right now is nothing but empty consciousness. That's a very advanced I thing.

@Leo Gura Yeah I figured that it would be the case. My mind feels like its gonna explode when I meditate on this. Right now this duality became my comfort zone but I just intuit that a lot of things will resolve if I just take the next step. I intuit that it's pretty shocking.

@ShivaShakti I think I already got that part. My problem is getting that perception is actual nothingness.

Honestly, I think Spinoza hit the nail in a lot of stuff and that's one of them. Everything else comes from this survival need.

The more I became conscious the more I realise that I nearly feel love and this is so freaking frustrating. I'm extremely critical of everybody all the time. Especially myself. I see everybody as robots with no free will. My thoughts are like "Oh people love each other because of their genetics and environment and etc." and even though that's true, that's not a reason to love them. I think I'm ignoring my human side. I can't remember what loving somebody very deeply feels like. Which is very sad because I was a very happy loving child but now I'm a critical neurotic fuck. So my question is how to love? Like really. What I've realized is that I've been hollow inside for years. I've realised this recently and somedays I just cry. I want to be like a child again. Now some of you can argue that all love is egoic relative to the unconditional love but we are not fucking enlightened here okay. I'm talking about a regular deep authentic love. Maybe my heart chakra is closed? . What I've find helpful is listening to some melancholic and nostalgic music every night to bring back my childhood memories. Watching some love movies maybe. Do you guys have any recommendations on how to practise love. How do I connect with my heart and stop being so neurotic.

@ajasatya Yes, I recognize that a lot of the hate I feel towars other people is actually caused by self-hate. Thanks for the advice. I will do all of those.

@Shanmugam I'm doing a lot of meditation and it makes sense because I know that this is a part of the purification process. Thanks for the poem btw. It was beautiful

I've been seeing these subjects everywhere as I'm progressing in my spiritual work. So basically my main questions are: Who's gonna reincarnate? I know that my body is "real" but nobody owns this body. So when the body dies, its gonna be with the with the earth. So how can "I" even reincarnate. Who's gonna reincanate? And if your answer is something like "your body dies but your soul enters to another body", well what do you mean by my soul. There is no reason to believe that we have individual souls. What I understand when I hear the word soul is nothing other than one and only consciousness that is everything. So there is nothing personal about life. There is no such a thing as "my" soul. There is just soul and it is everything. I've even heard some people talking like "Your soul chooses to come this earth by it's free will and etc." and of course this seems like a complete nonsense to me. Talking about free will and shit... So eventually what I'm saying is I think there are a lot of dogmas about this topic. So what do you guys think. Is it completely nonsense? Is it a metaphor? If it's true which parts are true and which parts are dogma? What is it? I would be appreciated if somebody who studied this stuff with an open mind can answer some of my questions here.

Yes! that's why I've started to investigate all this. First I was shocked. I use to thing that it is some hocus pocus of the nonduality but now I just don't know.

@Leo Gura But Leooo, so are you saying there could be non-physical organisms? I've actually never thought about that. I think my core assumption was if something is not in our perception, then it is literally nothingness. But not-perception is still a thing right? So it's not nothingness. And if reality is absolute then it can contain individual souls that had past lives, human egos and pizza galaxies where everything is made out of pizza. Damn, that actually makes sense in a very weird way. But eighter way one part of the dream wouldn't be more spiritual than living as a human ego or an ant. They should be equally ignorant from the nondual perspective.

@AstralProjection But my underlying essence is everything, it's everything that has ever existed and everything that is going to exist. My essence is your essence. There is no "my essence". That means my essence doesn't reincarnate. That means everybody reincarnates as everything every milisecond.

Yeah, that's what I'm after right now. Do you have any recommendation? A youtube video or something?

@WaterfallMachine I've bought The Holographic Universe the other day and I'm very excited to read it. Of course I'm not interested in belief systems, I'm open minded about this topic, that's why I'm asking questions. To be honest I'm not satisfied with the answers and that's okay. First hand experience is what is important. I will try to do these methods to experience past lifes, but I will say that I think there is no reason to believe that we have indiviual souls but I will still keep researching.

@Arkandeus But the problem is you don't have a consciousness. You are the consciosness. I agree with you if you say reality is not more real than the world in our dreams, but you are not leaving your body because your are not in your body. You are not going to the other "real" realms because all of it is just a hologram including your body. So I think all of those astral travel are consciousness itself messing around.

@ajasatya That's exactly what I'm saying, "I" have never been born so how can I reincarnate. But people talk about it like "I've had a past life and I was a soldier blablabla" It seems like people are saying that they have a soul like in religions and I think that's just not true. They also say when you've reached samadhi you don't come back to earth anymore etc. So what people talk about when they talk about past lives? What are they remembering? Are they just delusional? Its seems so.

Yes, exacty! True not knowing is a very powerful state that is highly underestimated. We should try to empty our cups more. You're welcome

Every great teacher says consciousness is not in the brain but brain is in the consciousness and I am sure that's true but what does that actually mean, if someone can explain it to me I would be very appreciated. Also if it is not "my" consciousness or "your" consciousness but one consciousness, how is it that if somebody punches me, I feel that sensation but if somebody punches somebody else in front of me, I don't feel anything. Isn't that mean consciousness is in the body? Why do I only feel what is happening to my body? I know it is not "my" body, just for the sake of argument) This thing got me confused, what am I missing here?