Joseph Maynor

No, I'm talking about accepting or releasing a concept. I advance no theory. I can observe reality without accepting a concept of reality or a concept of me. I could release those concepts with no change to empirical reality. That's what I'm saying. It's expressed conceptually, but I'm referring to awareness, accepting, and releasing only. I also don't like the word empirical reality but I'm using the term to mean a snapshot of awareness in a moment. It's hard not to use that term.

It's happening to me now. It's unsettling. What a paradigm shift. I still have a few matters to clear up though. Like do others people's emptinesses exist, and is that experientially confirmable or am I just clinging to concept with that assumption.

Maybe they're growing on here. I know I am.

Yeah skandhas is a concept, you're right. Think of what I'm referring to by the word though which is -- what's in your experience in a moment. That's what I mean. Skandhas is just a way to communicate that in writing or speaking. It's a pointing to awareness basically. But I see your point, even that is a concept that adds a little nugget of idealism to reality. Reality is independent of concept. If I do not cling to any concept, nothing in reality changes for me. If I release any concept, nothing in reality changes for me. I'm sure you get what I'm trying to say here. It's hard to write clearly about this stuff, but I am trying very hard. It's laborious.

Maybe it's the tone that's the problem. Arguing can get nasty. Often a downward-spiral of suffering because everybody's got their mouths wide open but has their fingers in their ears. We all do this to a greater or lesser extent, myself included. Cable news does this to the extreme. So, I can appreciate Leo's fear. That said, I agree with you 100% SOUL. You sound like a stage yellow person right there. I think I'm at yellow too.

Understood. I'll abide by your wish on this matter Leo. I appreciate everyone here. I haven't been this excited in a long time. Fun to hang out with you all. We've all got one thing in common -- we love to grow.

He really does claim that eh? Fully enlightened. Wow. I don't even know what that means.

I'm having an epiphany and I wanna run it by you: Since all I am is awareness and attaching or releasing in the moment, I'm starting to realize that I have no self to improve, no needs inherently, no fears inherently, and that I can chose to ditch non-positive thinking totally. Am I off in la la land here? Add to this if you can. Broaden and extend this for me please.

Again, my original epiphany has nothing to do with argument. It's an epiphany, an observation. It's not a theory. The act of arguing about that epiphany vs the epiphany itself are apples and oranges. Similar to the distinction between concept or theory of reality and reality itself. Apples and oranges there as well.

All is one, right? That's a pretty lofty claim to my ears. So, let's look at one potential problem with this theory. Other minds. Are all other people part of you? Or is reality the complete set of individual non-dual realities? How are other people's consciousnesses a part of your skandhas though? Don't you either have to assume that other people's consciousnesses do not exist, or that the same are illusory? Don't both of those conclusions lead to a kind of absurd result? It's pretty clear that other people do exist and we have reason to believe that they are conscious like we are, although we can't climb inside their minds to find out for certain. So, what do we make of this? Is reality the set of individual one-nesses? That seems sort of *wacky* to me. Non-dualism seems kind of implausible to me on this basis. Please enlighten me on this issue.

Something you don't have now. Strain your mind to find one. Come on, do it! I'll do this too.

I'm not challenging. I've posted an observation and asked for feedback, others are challenging me, as I requested them to do. I'm the proponent here not the challenger, the guy making the claim not the critic. I'm really starting to see the depths of this epiphany now. It's awesome. I'm in the woods right now contemplating this.

It's not a view of reality. That would be concept. I'm not talking about an idea, theory, or perspective of or on reality. It's an awareness of what's in the skandhas in a moment. Pure awareness of what is in a moment. Maybe looking is a good analogy. When I say I need or I fear I'm adding a little nugget of idealism into the purity of reality. I've stepped into the matrix a tad. And it was self-induced because I conflated reality with concept. I clung to that concept rather than releasing it. See, concepts are not inherently bad, just when I use them to define what I am or what reality is. It's like getting things ass-backwards. I precede any concept, and so does reality.

But we can become more aware of what we're doing regarding this. I'm not saying we stop conceptualizing by any means. I'm a philosopher. I love concepts. I just don't use concepts as a prism to view reality. I take a more direct view, a non-conceptual view of reality. But concepts have their place. I can choose to cling or release them more intelligently with increased awareness.

No more suffering and stunting of growth caused by attachment to concepts in the sense that they define me in any way. So, for example, stop saying you have needs and fears. Stop attaching to those concepts. That will not change whatever comes up in your skandhas, even sharp pains. But you don't have to conceptualize it as anything. Just experience the feeling without also accepting a concept that says "I have a need". This is matrix-speak. By doing this you've stopped looking and started thinking. You've added a little piece of fantasy to raw reality: a little nugget of idealism.

I've actually expanded my view a little bit. The way I said it initially was too glossy. It's not that I have no needs. There may be a thirst in my shandhas. But I can chose to attach to the concept "I am thirsty" or release the same, could I not? See the difference? Reality is one thing, concept is something else. I can release any concept. There may be a sensation in my breast. But it's another matter altogether to attach to the concept "I have a fear". You may experience reality, but it's another matter to attach to the concept "I exist". You can release this concept. So what I think I've discovered is a bifurcation between concept and reality (in the sense of reality as what is, not a theory of reality, which is concept). This is the counter-intuitive move it seems.

Yeah. I don't like the word stories because it is too negatively connotated. Concepts are fine, they just don't capture me. That's it. And it's this inversion that I just discovered. I don't have a fear, I just have a sensation in the skandhas. See the distinction? Concept does not define reality. Reality just is independent of concept.

There is no definition needed. Science is one example of the practical use of concepts. Concepts are fine, they just aren't me. I cling to them or release them, that's my relationship to concepts. And concepts don't underlie me in any way. That's just a concept too, and I can release that.

Ordinary life is not the problem, it's our interpretations of it (concept), and then we wanna build on reality with concept, so we distort the mirror so to speak, which yields a distorted view. And then we want to cling to this distorted view, which too is concept which can be released. I'm not denying that what appears in my skandhas is real. But concepts about what's real is the problem. We can release those, or cling to them but while doing so be aware of what they are. Concepts often have practical utility. But they just can't capture me. That inverts the horse and cart. Concepts have no standing outside of my clinging to them or releasing them.

But why cling to this paradox? The paradox is concept. Couldn't you release that concept?

Words and concepts are two different things and are attached to in similar but different ways. I don't have to cling to the concept of human being. The word usage is irrelevant. I can release the notion that I am a human being. Try it yourself. This is not intellectual. It's clear to me anyway. I will not beat you over the head to get you to see this. That's not my role here. All I'm saying is I see it. I get it very profoundly. And I'm looking for some feedback over this epiphany I've had.

Yeah. When you get little tastes of enlightenment you realize that enlightenment is more like a journey than a destination. If you're working, you're always on the cusp of your next epiphany and growth point. Then it's like wham-o. Oh damn! This is the next level! I'm one notch from before now! How's the air up here? Sniff sniff. How do I adapt to this? How will my life change?

I'd hate to disappoint ya Telepresent but you're stuck with me dude! I win either way to repeat myself. I grow either way. I've been doing personal development work for 17 years. Started when I was 22. So, I grow regardless now because I'm always working at something. Filling holes. No matter what I do now I grow. Something bad happens -- growth. Something good happens -- growth. Two sides of the same coin.

@ajasatya Can I choose to do all those things and still release the notion that I am a human being? Think about it. There is no necessary nexus there. Just because I put food into my mouth doesn't mean I need to cling to the concept that I am a human being. In one case food is attached to. In the other a concept is attached to. Do you appreciate the difference?

@Telepresent Let's not argue about it. I respect his wish. Let's grow constructively. It's better for us anyway. I'll just focus on building rather than tearing-down. They're two sides of the same coin really. You'll get to the same destination on either road eventually. So it's no harm no foul. I'll just worry about my own growth primarily and stop trying to goose others out of dogmatism on here. I don't need to play that role here.