Joseph Maynor

(1) I have 4 raisins in my hand. (2) My pet baboon comes grabs all of them out of my hand. (3) How many raisins do I have in that hand now? Assume the answer is zero. What controlled that thought and inference? You gotta look at these questions pragmatically not theoretically. A theoretical answer ain't gonna really tell you much.

That's interesting. Could you say the opposite theory with the same degree of certitude?

The very basis of writing contains words such as I, me, mine, yours, hers, that, this, them, those, the, it, a (indefinite pronoun), to, [any general concept, e.g., "concept"], cause, good, true.

@Nahm Haha. What you said is great! Probably true.

It took me quite a bit of stewing in the theory, but I'm a very conceptual person, so I'm sure it was overkill. I have a huge stack of notes that I review from time to time containing theory and information. My notes fill one of these totally expanded out: https://www.amazon.com/Smead-Straight-Cut-Expansion-Redrope-73234/dp/B001L1RFOG/ref=sr_1_32?ie=UTF8&qid=1506013393&sr=8-32&keywords=expanding+folder

Monet

The awareness of happenings.

@How to be wise Sure. I think it depends on how you want to define the term "science." Is Leo's work a science? What about in the broad sense of science? I think the biggest problem that Enlightenment faces is that people are so scared of death that they will never embrace death, which is what Enlightenment is: The death of the illusion of life. It takes a leap of faith to face-down our own Egos, and also a lot of courage and emotional-labor. What is the difference between science and knowledge? Maybe instead of trying to pidgeon-hole Enlightenment Theory as a science, we become ok with it just being knowledge. Or maybe we stop needing to label or categorize it in a meta way period. The theory works -- and at least in the way that Leo explains it, it is already rich in both breadth and depth. So, I think we already have what you think we need. It's just that Enlightenment needs (1) outstanding teachers; and (2) people willing to do the work. Those are the two key variables as I see it. On a separate note -- I think it's a fascinating question though about whether Enlightenment is a way to save the world. Think about it -- if the world is a dream, who are you saving? You are playing a video-game in your own mind. There are no Egos to reform. Instead of saving the world, you are just watching a dream unfold. See? Enlightenment goes deep. People don't want to believe this stuff. Enlightenment is basically telling people that their lives are not real. If you're stuck in the ego-paradigm this is gonna sound like death before death -- like killing yourself before you die, which sounds crazy. From the egoic perspective, Enlightenment looks like a life for losers who can't handle life and thus need to think it away. To the Ego, Enlightenment looks like the ultimate way to stick your head in the sand in life -- a systematic denial of reality. Like committing philosophical suicide. Egos might think that Enlightened folks are just people who want to die but don't have the balls or ovaries to take their own life for real. Or maybe they believe that Enlightened people are a bunch of losers: loafers who have conned themselves out of being successful in life through a kind of silly rationalization. And you wonder why more people don't pursue Enlightenment? Well, Enlightenment smells like poo to the Ego. It's like -- who would keep a bunch of mosquitoes as pets? Let 'em fly around the house? Probably not, right? You're gonna get ur ass bit badly! Same with Enlightenment. Ego-death hurts. Enlightenment is gonna be counter-intuitive by its very nature.

You have to take an objective perspective and see if what they are saying is constructive in some way. If so, then listen to them. If not, just ignore. We all have little shadow things that others see better than ourselves. Those are useful to learn from others.

Ya'll gotta visit Pompeii to appreciate this fully. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pompeii

I can only speak for myself. Once I saw Being I realized that I don't have any more control. So, in that sense I'm just watching stuff happen. I'm aware of happenings. And everything seems to happen as normal without the Ego trying to control anything. It's creepy when you first see that control is an illusion. I've been experiencing some grief emotions though. You know when you get really drunk and the whole room starts to spin? Well, imagine the spinning is Ego and Being is the drunkard being passively aware of the spinning, assuming she is lying on the ground still and just watching. See? Even alcohol can provide a non-dual experience! Anything that puts Being in high-relief can provide a non-dual experience, including Meditation.

I have one of those black eye coverings that you sometimes see people on airplanes wear. They work great because no light gets in and you don't have to worry about closing your eyes. I'm sure there's some hardcore person out there who's gonna come along and deprive me of my mask lol. Watch! Ya'll know you wanna go all orthodox on me! Maybe their rationale will be -- Brahman needs dancing eyelids to transcend Maya! I caught a bunch of shit once before when I admitted sometimes I meditate laying in bed. This is the one I have -- https://www.amazon.com/ALASKA-BEAR®-Natural-blindfold-super-smooth/dp/B00GSO1D9O/ref=pd_lpo_vtph_194_bs_tr_img_1/141-2039829-1145664?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=W9A91C0P89HWCFWN87Z2

Who would be striving for Enlightenment? Oh, got it, you're talking to people that think they are Egos. I resonate with point #3 in part. You can grease the wheels though by using what I call "counter-weight theory." So, there is a need for a theory-rich period at that stage. But the big-shifts happen when the Ego dies, I agree; that comports with "my" experience. #2 is kinda screwy. You are Being. That's it. The "people" who are gonna pursue Enlightenment had no choice to. There is no choice. Who had the choice? All there is is Being. I think awareness is about all you can give Beings. Awareness of Enlightenment. But then again, that awareness would ultimately happen randomly. Your movie and my movie might be similar, but other movies might vary considerably. And who's to say that our movie is the best movie? You'd need an Ego for that. So, there is a deep randomness to Enlightenment. I wouldn't go so far as to tell "people" not to seek though. I always hated that advice. It's wrong. There is something to be sought -- freedom from suffering, Being, and awareness of the illusion of Ego. The seeking is an illusion though, there's just awareness of happenings.

Wow. That's cool. I still believe in distance myself. Not that I want to believe it, but the belief is still lodged in there. From the Being perspective it does look like a series of discrete flat planes come to think about it.

I'm really starting to see that the body is not my body now but the body. It is a little bit freaky and it's putting "me" into a little bit of a depressive funk. I think "I" am experiencing a little bit of dark night symptoms. The sense of nobody home is really not sitting well with the Ego. "I" see now that the body is just this thing that is there and is alive and operating on its own like a machine. There's no me inside of it.

@Ilya It's not easy. Also, every time I think I've arrived I realize that I am just at the beginning of this. I see now that this is a process that has to unfold or unravel -- pick your metaphor. I also see now that conditioning has basically fed the Ego into thinking of me as a self. I've always had a sense that there was something odd about me, and now I realize that in the back of my mind I always felt the nonduality tugging at me in subtle ways -- like in my 20's. Now I see why that was. We have convinced ourselves that we are selves! But it's all just beliefs overlaid on top of perception basically. I think you have to trip hard to really become aware of this fully. Be careful with psychedelics though folks. I don't think I would have ever gotten to this place had I not had that massive trip. The same Being I was there is the same Being I am here. And all I can do is be! What control is there to be had? I'm like watching myself do myself now. Now I see why this has to be done in steps. It would be too painful to go through Enlightenment all at once. Ya ever see the movie Alien? It feels like that. But I had a similar feeling back in March when I had my first big shift in the Ego unsettling process. It actually felt worse then. This one is more like a calm despair. That one was more like grieving a death. I just feel generally bad, not cheerful at all. But not depressed either. Just kinda moderately sick in some way. I think it's the loss of the illusion of control that is really hard to accept. And it's just weird to realize that what I thought was reality is basically just a movie -- just like when I had my trip. Same deal. I don't want anybody to hurt themselves with psychedelics, so be careful. But I have to say that that caused a big shift for me. You gotta really understand what Being is. Once you get that, that's when things start to happen fast. Once you see an error, you can't overlook it. Denial only works if an error is not fully seen or comprehended.

At some point you gotta surrender, and no teacher can do that for you. It seems to be happening automatically for me now. Like a process that's now gonna play itself out. Instruction is just first base.

@WelcometoReality Great advice

Woah. I just posted a similar post myself. It is so odd going from the illusion of doing to just being. And then trusting the automatic stuff is also a change. The feeling of no control. But the reality is that nothing has changed. That's what I gotta keep reminding myself.

I don't understand your quibbling with my word-choice. It's a distinction without a difference to me. If you had two good legs, would you believe that shooting one of them off would help you walk better? This is what we do with morality. It's the Egoic Illusion trying to judge and control Nature. And it's a big cause of suffering. The Ego uses polarities like moral good and bad to give the illusion of control and the illusion of existence. Being just is. Imagine two alien (as in non-human) video-game characters that were programmed with a completely arbitrary sense of right and wrong. How would you regard that code of morality? Would you see it as applicable to your life in anyway? What if you experienced some trauma that caused you to start judging yourself based on that video-game moral code one day, and all your actions caused you to feel like a total piece of shit. Wouldn't that be unfortunate? Right and wrong does the same thing to us. The Ego doesn't exist -- but all those emotions are registered by Being. So, morality, right and wrong, and good and bad, are just Ego-Smog; and they kick up a lot of neurotic, often painful feelings -- aka suffering. Video on point to watch: