Lauritz

I wanted to recommend this online book: https://meaningness.com/ It gave me many valuable insights. The book emphasizes the idea that there are no absolute truths around meaning and purpose. Nihilism and eternalism are both wrong and everyone can confirm this in their experience. Life is neither meaningless nor meaningful in an absolute sense. It sometimes feels meaningless or meaningful. Meaning is a spectrum that we experience moment to moment. Meaning has many facets, is nebulous and patterned. When we hold any fixed idea about it, sooner or later we will suffer. Because it does not match how meaning is in reality fluid and dynamically changing. It is deeply tied in with spirituality as meaning (and especially purpose) can be a self-created ground that we are unconsciously holding as true. An excerpt: Too Close to See Whatever you do, however boringly mundane, takes into account the meanings active in your situation. That includes concrete, immediate aspects, such as the usefulness of a potato-masher for mashing potatoes; and also longer-term, more abstract ones, such as the symbolism of vegetables versus meat in your culture. Usually you are not particularly aware of such meanings, you just mash potatoes; but your activity makes sense, and it makes sense only because of them.1 Whatever you do, however exalted your mission, you ignore innumerable meaningless details; irrelevant events that occur for no particular reason and don’t affect your project. You cannot avoid momentarily noticing such features, but you usually dismiss and forget them as quickly as possible. You are, therefore, always already implicitly in the complete stance. You recognize, at some level, that both meaningfulness and meaninglessness are pervasive. This is inescapably obvious. It is like the blurred image of your nose, always present in your visual field but almost never noticed. It is so obvious, so much a taken-for-granted aspect of everything you do, that you constantly pass over it without reflective consideration; without thinking through what its implications might be. Too simple The complete stance can be defined in several ways, all ridiculously simple: Recognizing that meaning and meaninglessness both exist Recognizing that meanings are both real and indefinite Abstaining from both eternalism and nihilism That’s all? That’s it?? That’s your Answer to Life, The Universe, And Everything?! Well, yes. I’m sorry you were hoping for something complicated and difficult. That might make you feel like you’d got something when you finally understood it, so you’d have made progress and could feel better about yourself. There are implications… and applications… and practices… and… enormous conceptual complexities? You are now only a small way through the book Meaningness. Maybe the rest will be more satisfying? It’s just looking at particular patterns of meaning to see how they are nebulous and what that means, though.

I wanted to make you, who are on this forum, aware of a teacher who in my opinion really contributes something unique to spirituality. Her name is Jac O'Keeffe. If you already had nondual insights, you might find her content especially useful, as it goes much deeper than that. The following two talks are a good starting point for her material. She also has a website and a YT-Channel if you want to find more of her content. I am going to interview her this month. In case you have questions for her, you can post them here and I may be able to present them to her.

The interview is now online: The question which was discussed a bit in this thread starts at 01:29:43 What I like about her teachings is that they are so multifaceted. I got reminded that not only the inner work is important but also to work with the personal perspective of reality. I have personally denied this for a while. It had benefits but ultimately the apparent reality of the ego-self cannot be denied and needs to be worked with. No matter how transcendent some experiences are, they still happen in the context of the person. Or vice versa. And for that, I found her advice spot on. I hope some of you will get useful insights from the interview.

I can't reference to what she is talking about in my own experience either, but to me, it sounds like she had some "experience" of something that is not grounded in consciousness. Maybe that is so unimaginable to us because consciousness is the basis of this universe, but oneness actually encompasses several modes of existence, only one of which is based in consciousness.

In the first video she mentions, that there are other "zones" beyond consciousness. From minute 35 she starts talking about it. Has anyone experienced this? I am clueless to what she means by that or how that's even possible. I am very curious about it.

I recently did an interview with Frank Yang. We also talked about the role of cessations in dissolving identifications. Because this was mentioned by @Leo Gura in his interview with Curt Jaimungal on the Theories of Everything podcast, I think you might value Franks direct feedback on that topic. If you want to skip ahead, this question starts at minute 46. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4_ywwsbkBc

Primary psychopathy: 1.3 (higher than 10.51% of people who took the test) Secondary psychopathy: 1.3 (higher than 2.78% of people who have taken this test)

Thank you all for the input. Seemed like it was a good idea to post it here, as many of you seemed interested in it. Frank and I will be doing another interview in the future. You can post any open questions you might have here or in the comments of the video and we will address them in the next interview.

From my conversation with him, also before and after the interview, that's his true personality. If you look back on his history you can see that he has always done crazy stuff. Now that he has all filters removed, his true self shines through his body and behavior in every moment it seems. To me it feels like he is genuine in his behavior and is not putting on an act.

@Adamq8 those were basically my insights with psychedelics as well. It can be total clarity. Which may also feel like total insanity from the egos point of view, but it may feel very true as the experience is happening. But that is the last mindfuck I realized about psychedelics. No matter how significant and true something feels and appears to be on psychedelics, still does not mean that it is. The sense of what's true is just another parameter of consciousness that gets turned up by psychedelics. In the end, even these seemingly most true insights dissolve into the nothingness/consciousness they came out of. I also agree that it is easy to fall into traps with psychedelics precisely because the insights one has on them feel so significant and true. Doesn't mean they are.

@Adamq8 Thanks for your input. My first thought was also that they only differ in the words they choose to use. But Frank is not pointing to differences in understanding but in experience. He does not say that any of Leos views are wrong, just that he might not yet have let go of that last bit of identification. Frank also mentioned that psychedelics no longer have an effect on him. If one gets what that means, it is a remarkable shift. Psychedelic states are on the most fundamental level no different from the sober state.

In about four month I have booked a dark room retreat. It is a solo retreat in a sound-proof room with access to a bathroom and meals are provided through a double door. So it is complete darkness and (mostly) silence for two weeks. I am a bit scared But I figured I am ready for it. After years of practicing meditation daily and not gaining much from it anymore and a few psychedelic experiences (mushrooms) I think it is time for me to get a little more serious about enlightenment. I have heard that this form of retreat is very powerful as it quickly changes the ratios of several neurochemicals in the brain. A lot of melatonin, DMT and even 5-MeO-DMT is produced. So the experience is supposed to be intense and facilitate awakening and higher states of consciousness. Why am I posting already now? I would like to get some input from you guys? Someone here who already did such a retreat? What were your experiences?

Yesterday I had an experience that I would describe as a deep remembering. I wasn't there anymore, noone who could have any control. All of my life was seen as the ever changing present moment. New for me was the experience that all senses were basically the same. I could not distinguish between thoughts and sights, between inner and outer. They were all just different flavors of the changing present moment. The attempt to meditate in order to calm me down was futile. There was only concentration on an object for a while, but ultimately thoughts would just pop up, sounds, etc... I also realized that noone else exists. So funny that I write now on this forum again. But I still had and have the question, what are others? How have you come to understand 'others' after enlightenment? Are you seeing them just as phenomena arising in your present experience, or has anyone been able to realize that he will, at another point in time, see the interaction from the others persons perspective? Is there consciousness (even if it is the same) in others, or not? This drives me crazy I wouldn't feel so alone if others would actually be me (filled with consciousness) at another point in time. That would actually be funny, interacting with myself. Isn't that where true compassion and love comes from? Rather than seeing others as empty phenomena in ones first person experience?

Much of the confusion in this thread is actually addressed by Shinzen Young in the video at the end of this post. I have linked to the specific time where he mentions the point I want to make. If you have already done concentration meditation, awareness meditation or mindfulness meditation in the past, you have likely build up momentum. We could also say a mental habit has developed to be aware of certain things. So when you are not new to meditative practices and you start to do the Do-Nothing technique, part of your experience will involve the habit to do these practices you have done in the past. If this happens automatically, you do nothing about it. That means the technique might be doing itself. You will then come to realize that nobody is doing it. You remain as the awareness of it all. Here he talks about this: https://youtu.be/cZ6cdIaUZCA?t=755

I encountered the same question lately. I also ask myself how forceful my concentration awareness (or emptiness as you call it) shall be. Usually I find my thought process goes on along with awareness still being aware of itself. There is usually a detachment from thoughts. I would say, meditation in this way is a form of self-inquiry. If you keep your attention on emptiness/awareness, you are basically looking for your true self. It's different from other self-inquiry techniques though, because you are not coming at it with an attempt to actively see through your currently false believes. For example in self-inquiry you might ask yourself: "What is the distance between me and an object?", with the purpose to see through the illusory separation of subject and object. In that sense, meditation on formlessness is more direct, because you try to see Truth directly. Whereas other techniques tear down wrong believes. But they both have the same end result.

Okay, yesterday I had this experience, which I would say can be described as the seeing of the tail of the Ox in Zen-terms. I focused on the present moment and then it suddenly dawned on me that I was dissolving. It felt physical. Difficult to describe... Or maybe the feeling was like a remembering that I do not exist, a melting into the moment. Complete absence of any concepts for a few seconds. But then I panicked, my heart took a jump and I pulled back. I realized that I didn't know anything. I saw that actually 99% of what I experience on a moment to moment basis is my story around the present moment. I always live in this story, it's constantly active in the background. But in that moment none of that existed, it seemed like an infinite moment, or rather a moment without time, very mysterious, unknowable. Would this be called a Kensho? Did some of you experience something similar? And how may I be able to surrender and stay in that state? Why did I panic instead of feeling anything positive about it?

The thing is, I don't even know what I really before this insight. I was at the gym and after the workout thought "let's just relax and be present". Maybe it was the lack of any special attempt and the quick change from high ego state (strength training) to low ego state... But I do meditation for almost 10 years. Almost daily. No such thing ever happened during practice. I hope next time I can relax into it more fully and it stays for longer.

It is nice to learn about theories and concepts. But in my experience they also tend to lead me away from what is. Since a couple of weeks I have embraced this attitude of "not knowing". Which I combine with all-day-awareness and have found it to be very liberating. Using thoughts only where necessary, otherwise enjoying and fully immersing in the experience of my senses. Whatever happens to the brain when you do this is mostly beyond my knowledge, but it feels like it becomes easier and easier. And all those stories of past and future which caused me some stress and anxiety have less of an effect on me. I can recommend embracing the state of "not knowing" fully. Regard every thought for what it is. Will you get enlightened that way? I don't know But it sure feels good

My experiences with magic mushrooms were very profound and I cannot imagine that I would have understood anything close to what I do without those experiences. But I gave myself a long period for integration (4 years since my last trip). They also scared me because I had no mental concepts for anything which I encountered. I think they force you to grow if you want to keep them part of your practice in the long run. Otherwise you won't be able to handle the deeper and deeper state which they tend to provoke with each time. For me the first trips were just fun and about the morphing walls and the nice music. But now I can get into very deep states on dosages were some people feel nothing. But it's all the infinite, the psychedelic state is just soo different that it reveals the illusory nature of "reality" or experience... but on the deep end they can also be the absolute after "you" have been removed from experience. I am at a point where I don't know if I would recommend them to everyone. Surely for the serious seeker, but not for any random person without the proper education.

It has already been about two weeks since I have been on a darkness retreat. I initially planned to stay in the darkness for about 13 days. But I quit the retreat after 4 days. As I got a few requests about sharing my experience I still wanted to let you know what this retreat revealed to me. Why did I quit? The thing that made me quit was a build-up of frustration. I could have dealt with the boredom and the long hours of meditation, it was actually quite blissful at times. I became frustrated though because the place was not sound proof at all and it was not quiet. Right next to my room were a couple of dogs in a confined space and they would bark each time someone went by on the street. You could hear every car and truck going by, people speaking outside and so forth. As all other senses get incredibly heightened in the darkness, this was not acceptable for me. I would recommend everyone who wants to do a darkness retreat to research carefully beforehand if the place is also quiet. One recommendation I got for europe is this one: http://pobyt-ve-tme.cz/ it is supposed to be very quiet. I have found that when in meditation in darkness it is really easy to get into "interesting" territory pretty quickly, but sound would pull me out just as easily. And dog barking is terrible in my opinion. It really got on my nerves and then at one occasion they did not stop for about an hour and that when I called it quits. Couldn't stand the thought of having to deal with this for another 8-9 days. But then I learned from the experience and you can too. Make sure to go to a quiet place and your experience will me much more pleasant. Maybe some nature sounds are ok. Birds just sounds friendlier Meditation: Powerful stuff in the darkness. I experienced levels of bliss, which I never did in my sessions before. But I have not had that long sessions before in light. No distraction, what else is there to do but to meditate. Creativity was great at first but mental thoughts became less as time went on. I did mainly do nothing meditation, strong determination sitting and regular meditation with focus on the breath. All felt really good, but do nothing did not work as well for such long hours of meditation. Interesting: The senses of tasting and smelling became so incredibly nuanced that I was almost overwhelmed. There were nuances and literally dimensions to it, I never experienced before. At one time the smell of smoke came in the room and I was thinking the house must be burning so strong was it. But apparently it was just smoke from some chimneys in the town. In those first four days I had almost no visual of psychedelic effects. Some flashing colors and thinking that I can see the room, but nothing really solid. After-effects: Even though I did not sleep much, in fact I slept probably less than usual, I felt incredible energized and motivated when I came out of the darkness. Happiness for everyday experiences is still on a whole other level. Experiencing the visual dimension is one of our greatest sources of joy. We just forget that we are able to see at all. My biggest insight was that we do not long for happiness or beautiful experiences, but instead for anything at all. The distinctions we make, come only after are already saturated with experiences. If you experience almost nothing for an extended time, it becomes clear how grateful we can be to have such a rich life experience. I learned that whenever I want more and strive to "achieve" some other state, that I have to go back and retreat, so that everyday experiences become magical again. Conclusion: I will be doing it again for sure. But this time with more careful planning. It is difficult for sure and therefore the place must be really good to make the experience as positive as possible. In buddhism it is recommended as an advanced practice and I am sure it gets tricky once you reach the state where psychedelic compounds are released in the brain. But a week should be manageable for everyone who has a daily meditation habit. And it will increase your desire to further develop your meditation practice and give you increased appreciation, motivation and energy for your daily life. I posted a short video about my experience the day after I came out of the retreat:

Solipsism is pointing towards truth, but is in itself false. I understand that when you have a non-dual experience than yes, you could say solipsism is true, but then there is nobody to say that in the first place. And when you want to argue about solipsism from your everyday ego awareness, there is no point to it. There is only that which you experience. And if your experience tells you that other people exist, than there are, and if you stop believing it than they stop to exist. It is all different degrees of self-deception. How else could you experience anything other than nothingness? I found Rupert Spiras video to be pretty good. You have basically just identified with one line on a picture, looking at other lines and not seeing the whole picture. You create the world you want to believe in. The magic trick is that you forgot you did it and how you did it.

@phoenix666 Great respect for having the guts to do that! And thanks for the report. Saying it is a very visceral way of not knowing anything anymore is a good description. It is basically like being ripped a part physically and then taking on all kinds of different forms, right?

Thank you, I will make sure to post a report here afterwards. Where are you going to do it?

@Shroomdoctor I definitely moved. I just did a couple of sessions of strong determination sitting. But mostly do-nothing-meditation. The aspect of letting go and surrendering control I think fits nicely with the darkness. I will go on a 14 days darkness retreat tomorrow. I am pretty excited about it and also a little nervous. Don't know if I am going to make it.