Valach

No worries

I wouldn't say I was traumatised at all from it. Obviously I have trauma carried over from child-hood like most people but most of my interactions with woman were quite postiive. All I am saying that I came to conclusion that pickup, getting woman, increasing body counts etc. are not fullfilling things at all. Having deep, intimate relationships can be, sure - but that is antithesis of pickup and in no way related to getting your body-count up. Same conclusion I got from guys who went through the journey. It's only the most immature ones that kept sleeping around and getting new woman.

Why are you acting as if I am or rather I was not succesfull? You think only people who did not get the woman can disagree with you? I have told you many times that I have been through the journey. I am not some virgin newbie. And not generally, you can't do the standart pickup with its standart goals from anything beyond orange. You can meet people from higher stages but it's not gonna be pickup.

I am not gonna engage in this anymore. If you want to go ahead and engage in stage orange behaviour - but do not claim it is some highest truth or a pathway to happiness. It's not.

That's just your projection. Ask anyone who has done some true inner and consciousness work. They will tell you the same. I am close friend with some of the present or former pickup teachers in the my city and they say the same thing - Getting woman, be it the best woman (looks, personality etc..) - be it casual or relationships. is not going to make you happy or fullfilled. Just the same way having any major dating success and sleeping around. I am not gonna tell guys to not improve their dating lifes and not go out and approach woman and whatnot if they feel like doing that, it has its place. But this is a self development and spiritual forum, not a pickup forum so let's not kid ourselfs. Guys who do this are not fullfilled nor happy. They don't even know what it means. Just like party person who goes out and does coke on the weekend will tell you that they are happy - but spend a little bit of time with time and you will see how deeply unhappy they are and how they are just using their lifestyle to escape inner wounds (just like most of dating happens for the very same reason).

That's the thing. It is not. Dating or sex or even relationships (especially if you view them as something to master) are deeply unfulfilling. I have seen plenty of man do very well and still be deeply unhappy (just as happened to me).

Personally I have never met a person whom I would consider mature and conscious who prioritized sex and slept around a lot. Simply does not happen too much in my experience.

Don't have that experience, no. But it also depends on how you define high quality dating life I suppose. Depends what you consider a good coaching as well. In my experience it all boils down to just feeling at ease with yourself in both social situation and life in general.

Okay, I missed that comment, I was more responding to your general advice. I personally do not have much experience with dealing with people on the spectrum but I am not sure mass approaching is the way - The guys that were on the spectrum in the PUA community would still really struggle after thousands of approaches - but I am not sure there is easy cure for this. I am also not saying you should be working on business or fitness to get woman. Breaking an approach anxiety is actually quite easy. That is the easiest part in becoming good with woman.

No dude. I have done plenty of pickup in the past so I am not some sort of newbiee around this. I have had phases where I would go non-stop and approached close to 100 people a day. It does have it's value but it does not address the real problem. If you feel like you need to approach "meh" woman or you need to have some sort of momentum in order to talk to woman you are attracted to or to feel attractive, you have self esteem issues that need addressing. You can spend months isolated working on some other shit and then go out and feel just as good and worthy as with any momentum.

This is not a good take. It showcasts a lack of true self esteem. Not to mention you are not being authentic when you approach woman you are not really interested in.

Sure, I do have "normal" friends that I enjoy hanging out with and joking around. It has its place and I am glad I have those friends. But I also want deeper friendships and a relationship with potential life partner. And me going out to socialize with people I do not intend on keeping in my life is not aligned with that goal. So I socialize way less and that is just fine.

I am trying, it is very hard indeed. But I cant be bothered to hangout with shallow people so what choice do I have?

I feel you and I am dealing with similiar issue. That being said, you do not need to socially "succeed" with most people no? If you are looking for girlfriend that is, you can try to look for someone more conscious and mature?

In some ways it was way easier for the people in the past. As you said, freedom creates a lot of chaos. I like what one modern philosopher said: "We still have arranged relationships, they are now just emotionally arranged." And our emotions can play a lot of tricks on us.

And that is exactly the definition of people pleasing. It is often subtle. In my experience this is just a way to avoid rejection and tension. It is not really good position to be operating from. If you are interested in someone, simply flirt, show your intentions or ask her out on a date.

So you are people pleasing?

Why do you want to be chill?

What is wrong with being direct?

I would say maturity plays a big role yes. But also trauma and unhealthy unbringing causes these dynamics in the first place. As I am diving deeper and deeper into this I am realizing how much of pickup strategy, eventhough it works, is optimized for insecure, not really stable people. Those are the vast majority, so it looks like it works.

@aurum I am curious how would you explain the manosphere yourself?

Then you know more secures already than I do haha. Thanks for the answer:)

@Natasha Tori Maru You probably missed the last part about me asking why do you think secures do not use dating apps since i edited it. I am not saying I don't disagree, I am just really curious about that!

That might be enjoyable and exciting for you. And painful for her.

Which part? The not being picky around sex or not wanting to commit after it?