Valach

@Zenterus I actually think both this post and your previous one contain a lot of valuable insights from a game perspective. You clearly have a lot of experience and have put serious thought into this. But reading them made me wonder about something a bit more fundamental. Why do we strategize, optimize and perform so much around the opposite sex in the first place? What do you think that ultimately stems from? Another thing I'm wondering about is the whole idea of projecting abundance, confidence or "high value." Isn't there a paradox there? If I genuinely feel worthy and abundant, why would I be thinking about how to appear abundant at all? It almost seems like the more concerned I am with communicating high value, the more it suggests I don't fully believe it internally. One mindset is: "I feel valuable because I have a lot of dating options, so I reinforce that image by behaving in ways I know are attractive." The other is: "I feel valuable simply because of who I am." In that case, dating becomes less about getting the other person or being perceived as high value, and more about expressing genuine attraction and seeing whether we're actually compatible. From that perspective, confidence isn't something I'm trying to project—it's just a byproduct of how I already feel about myself. Curious how you see that.

Okay fair, but I do not understand how being direct is connected to the man not being non-high value or in scarcity to say so. Like if you truly feel worthy and on her level (or even above) why would you care on how you appear? I am not dissing the post, I like it but I am confused about this type of thinking. My coach (well, he is more my friend but he is a PUA coach in my city as well) does direct as well and has no issue with that. Like I doubt Leo DiCaprio would think about whether to go direct or non direct with a woman. He would just say what he feels like saying.

I mean you can be selective while being direct or giving a compliment no? Isn't the mindset "This person looks attractive and I am coming up to find out if we vibe as well"? Many times I've gone direct and then decided not to proceed based on her personality. Me saying I find het attractive is not me saying I want her to be my girlfriend or to even go on a date with me.

That really depends on the PUA circle. Many of the men wanted to just have "options" or sex. But deep down it all comes down to wanting to feel like you are valuable and attractive.

Funny enough, the more secure I am becoming the harder I find it to date

I agree that higher stages integrate the healthy aspects of lower stages rather than rejecting them. There's nothing inherently wrong with ambition, business, social media, or building systems—those are valuable Orange capacities. My point is that what you're describing is still primarily an Orange value system. Throughout the thread the emphasis is on optimization, leverage, scaling, status, access to higher-caliber women, and maximizing results. That's a perfectly legitimate perspective, but let's call it what it is. As I've developed, I've found that I care less about whether someone is successful in one domain and more about the values they embody as a whole. Teachers don't just transmit techniques—they also transmit the worldview and priorities behind those techniques. So yes, I can absolutely learn event hosting or social media from someone like Sartain. But if their underlying philosophy revolves around optimizing status, women, and external success, I'm going to be much more selective about how much I model myself after them. Effectiveness is important, but it's no longer the only metric I use.

Yea, which are all stage orange values. That's fine, but let's call it what it is.

Which is precisely a stage orange approach that you are describing. "The end justifies the means".

That's kinda funny. But to be honest at 14, most kids are akward around recieveing affection.

Ofcourse, but they are hanging out with deeply dysfunctional people. Who really cares if they are more succesfull at this domain. You are not gonna build a stable relationships with them anyways. And also it is that inner insecurity (which narcissism tries to cover) that motivates them to get all this success. Healthy people are not really that much driven to get all that ass or money.

@Leo Gura I do not have that experience at all. Sure some woman are going to be drawn to it. But these deeply visible narcissists got rejected a lot by woman because they can see through their shit. I am not saying that dysfunctional men are not attractive ever. But woman are not that stupid in my experience. People in general are stupid around dating, don't get me wrong. Just do not have this almost caricature like experience a lot of redpill/PUA describes. Some chill, fun guy who has normal social skills and level of self esteem is doing way better than Trump level narcissists.

Most people are insecure and resonate with people on their wavelength.

I think you vastly overestimate how many options (and options worth even considering) woman have.

If they would be able to connect to their own feminine side which is repressed, it would be so much easier connecting and understanding woman.

I always liked the quote about leadership from Dune: "A great man doesn't seek to lead. He's called to it. And he answers."

Not gonna watch, I am over my BDSM phase.

Which is like basically most of the people on planet lol.

You can easily respect someone without fearing them. I can respect my 90 year old grandma for the woman she is. I don't have any fear towards her.

@Natasha Tori Maru I would prefer respect. I don't really value love that much as I know what it means to most of people (romantic one). That being said, respect is not something I crave that much. In my country it is not really common to say this to someone (don't think I ever heard it from a woman). What I crave is being seen and being heard. That's the shit. At least for me

Fear has nothing to do with respect. And it is not the opposite of love. At least romantic one.

I don't think scoring as secure on an attachment test really proves someone is securely attached. Self-report questionnaires have limitations, and it's surprisingly easy—for anyone—to answer in a way that reflects how they see themselves rather than how they actually react under stress. Most people also don't have perfect self-awareness. What stands out to me is less the test and more the pattern of behavior. One of the hallmarks of insecure attachment is that close relationships activate a disproportionate amount of anxiety. The OP isn't just thoughtfully weighing the pros and cons of buying a flat. He describes months of avoidance, intense anxiety, inability to plan a vacation because he expected the relationship to end, and rapidly oscillating between wanting to commit and wanting to leave. That doesn't prove he has an insecure attachment style, but it does suggest there's something deeper going on than simply asking, "Is she the right partner?" A securely attached person can absolutely decide to end an eight-year relationship. The difference is that the decision is more likely to come from a relatively grounded evaluation of compatibility and values rather than being driven by intense fear and inner conflict.

No point engaging this. There are places for these abstract discussion but not where a guy is struggling with simple problem like OP.

Sure, if you redefine "food" broadly enough, then everything is food because everything is energy. I was obviously speaking about the psychological analogy. A partner isn't a biological necessity in the same sense that food is, so using food as an analogy for relationships isn't very informative.

Nobody is saying attraction or compatibility don't matter. They obviously do. But in this specific case, the OP has been with a loving, reliable partner for eight years and describes intense anxiety whenever commitment becomes more concrete. That immediately raises the question of whether this is actually about her, or whether it's about his relationship to commitment itself. If someone has an avoidant attachment style, chronic anxiety, or is constantly searching for certainty, a different partner often won't solve the problem. The same doubts simply reappear in the next relationship after the honeymoon phase ends. The important question isn't "Can I find someone hotter?" It's "Am I leaving because this relationship genuinely isn't right for me, or because my nervous system interprets commitment itself as a threat?" Those are two completely different reasons to end a relationship, and confusing them can lead to repeating the same pattern over and over.

It will still want good things. The thing is that what a good thing for good life is might not be the most attractive woman. I've seen it many times. Woman are not food.