Valach

This is an excellent question and I hint on that often as well. However if people answered to that truthfully and really fulfilled that for themselfs, they would probably stop gaming. Or at the very least went out way less. So again, a catch 22 in a way.

People are very complex. It is just about cultivating your own intuation and healing yourself so you can see them for who they truly are.

Yea. There is a middle ground for this in my experience. Some experience is nice, but constantly seeking new highs does not correlate with the most stable people.

I think if I told my younger self how fast you get "used to" the hotness of the woman you are dating, he would not believe me. But after you realize that, you start screening for diffrent things.

Those are things that I said in multiple places in multiple different contexts. I am not dating as of now for unrelated reason - it is not like platonic relationships are my focus now. I had friends even when I was dating/cold approching obviously. But building on deeper friendship is quite nice compared to shallowness of casual dating. What I said about cold approaching is that it is not the most reliable way to get good with woman for most guys. Not that it is not a reliable way for meeting woman. I would say the same about any social circle game or any other route. Most people have way deeper issues than that. In my personal opinion most people should not be dating at all and rather focusing on healing their traumas and inner world. But I am bit radical with that. I know that is not happening.

I never said I am burned out from dating. That is your assumption.

Yes, but I am not interested in that. That is the point. Yes, but I am not interested in that. That is the point. I do have my own social circles. But they are aligned with what I want and that does not really connect to woman or meeting woman. And you definitely do not need some super cool social circle to date attractive woman. That is your limiting belief. I have done that. I have seen guys do that. I have literally dated gorgeous woman while playing video games in most of my free time. Not saying that you should be doing that, it was an unhealthy pattern for me. But you do not need any of that. Many of the woman I dated I met as they were going to or from the social event some guy planned for them.

Sure, but why would I put so much effort into building a social circle I am not that interested in building in the first place when I can just go out and approach a woman on the street and take her on date/start relationship, whatever. It kind of depends on the city you live in but european cities are amazing for this since they are so walkable. I think I saw at least 3-4 hot woman on my way to grocery shop yesterday (and it is like 5 minutes away from my place).

Yes, that is asuming the social circle game is aligned with your interests and values. While it might be good for you, that is not feasible enough for most people simply due to most hobbies/interest/value/circles not attracting enough attractive woman. And it still has to be something you naturally want, which is not everyone. I would even dare to say it is not most people. Btw. The study you linked is refering to students. Obviously they meet via school. But I think on here we are more ambitious than that.

Woman are just as bad about screening characteristics suitable for long term relationships as guys are.

So that is kind of the PUA (and to large degree the mainstream stage orange society) paradigm. There is nothing wrong with that. But that is why I was pointing out that it is limited. By any means go through the journey and exhaust it. I have just found it quite limiting and not fullfilling at all.

You go on a date with a woman you are attracted to. There are 2 fictional outcomes: 1. You get the "success", be it by her getting physical with you or wanting to go on another date or wanting to have a relationship. Whatever you are after in the moment. 2. You express yourself fully. But you get rejected. Perhaps in painful way. Which outcome would you consider as bigger success?

Have you tried being congruent and authentic? Even when it means you will not appear attractive? Have you tried connecting to that part of yourself?

Yea, because you are in paradigm where success with woman is above all so you do not carefully evaluate what impact it has on your self esteem, how healthy and sustainable this lifestyle is.

Yeah, the issue is that the more you consciously try to appear high-value, the more you condition yourself that you are not high value in the first place.

Not my experience. Actually quite the opposite. I have met many man who even after getting the "attractive" woman were still not feeling good enough deep in their body. It then leads to the player lifestyle where you are addicted to the validation of woman (because you do not feel good enough in the first place so you need to medicate it). It is not a route towards healthy relationships, if that is your goal.

He can be an alright stepping stone. The thing is that he still "games". My approach to this is through self esteem and inner work. Essentially just being completely fine with yourself and this emanating from you. Not using any techniques or game to try to provoke reaction. Not hiding behind a mask of a charismatic person. But what you find after that is that the drive to go out and get woman in the first place might go down quite a bit. Which is obvious onto why.

I have found his perspective deeply limited. He has his place in the community, but it feels like he never actually moved on from technical game.

Trusting your body is all you really need

What you do not realise that this type of thinking is exactly coming from a place where you are putting her above her and thus you think you need to control your behaviour in some ways.

Yeah, okay, I am onboard with that. Though in my perception it is very hard to be heatlhy and orange at the same time. Vast majority of people are traumatized and it is very hard to get in touch with your pain without developing self awareness, that would probably move you past orange anyways.

Woudln't 2000$ bottle of vine places attract more still orange oriented people?

I guess you meant "anything that is NOT the standard loud music club." What are high class parties?

Oh yea, that is fair. But I would not describe it as "party lifestyle" then. What kind of circles/events did you find the most healthy people in?

I am more radical in this I suppose. The moment you are consuming any substances like alcohol, smoking etc. at least somewhat regularly, you are definitely running away from yourself. And party lifestyle and casual sex etc. definitely goes hand in hand with substance abuse. Unless you are PUA, but then that has its own issues. I have also never met a really conscious person who would have high levels of self awareness and would be highly promiscuous. Perhaps, they exist and I was just unlucky. But that is my experience nonetheless.