Jackthelad

A book I read a few months ago that really opened my eyes was "The Road Less Traveled". In this book Scott Peck talks about the nature of relationships, how we bullshit ourselves regarding the 'in-love' experience of relationships, that real love only comes when you are not 'in love' but have developed your love and relationship past the infatuation stage, which most people think is real love. (This is the thing that hit home for me the most). I read it a while back and can't remember all of the points, so I'll paste a couple of brief summaries of the book (this will be far more accurate than my memory) here: http://www.enotes.com/topics/road-less-traveled and here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M._Scott_Peck#The_Road_Less_Traveled The reason I only give the book 4/5 is that the author's message is really fantastic, but in the real world he did not always live up to his own high standards. I don't expect people to be perfect but if you have a great message in life, and publish a renowned bestseller on it, it might then be an idea to live your life a bit cleaner. It's like he had the keys to the kingdom and forgot where he put them for a bit. The end of the book I liked less, I adored the first 60% or so. Just my own opinion, but the book is written excellently and it gives a fascinating perspective of love, dependency, and spirituality. Anyone read this one? Any thoughts, or things I have missed?

Just logged back in to say I've recently reread this book, and it's actually much more profound that I gave it credit for, Jesus, four years ago. A big issue I had with it back then was his treatment of God, or whatever you want to call it, my instinct previously was to sort of disregard anything with God, but since then I've had a few experiences that have changed me from not-believing to not-not-believing, I don't even know what I beleive in, but I think I know what people are refering to now, and so after rereading the book the end of it is now much more brilliant and profound than I originally gave it credit for. Also my comments on him not living up to his own standards don't really make much sense to me anymore. In short, this book is a masterpiece! Read it!

So I have a rather simple question, and I am assuming nothing. Like Peter Ralston says, I'm attempting to forget everything I have heard about the concept of enlightenment. This is hard as I have read a few books on it and seen almost all Leo's videos on it, as well as other people's teachings. Regardless, I have had 3 experiences in 3-4 years where I have felt this same sensation. Each time I have become quite alarmed at the intensity and I've make a decision each time to not surrender, although I'd not use those words at the time it's just I stop it from progressing further, within seconds, certainly less than 10. Each time it has come to me in waking hours, not in meditation, not seeking in any way. The sensation is basically where I feel a dissolution between all the forms of the world, and I actually feel, completely, absolutely, that there is nothing here. I mean I feel like I am in this endless void, this happens even thought I'm still seeing whatever is in front of me. I see the emptiness in everything. how everything is empty. Last night I was looking out late, around 4am, at some water glistening, with shallow rushes coming up and just breaking through the surface - about half a foot or so on average - and the water was only around 2-3 foot deep in a closed harbour. The effect of seeing this kind of tripped me out a bit, and I suddenly saw or maybe more accurately understood that I was looking into nothing, which extended and including the sky, and the buildings in the background, that there is nothing, and I am nothing. There is no me. This feeling didn't give me any elation, it kind of terrified me. I guess it lasted around 3-4 seconds, maybe a touch longer, and the best way I could describe it is that I shunned it, or turned away from it, because it truly unnerved me, like I was seeing something that was always there, but for some reason was not apparent before. This is akin to the feelings I had the last two times previously, where I felt similar feelings about the formlessness and void, although I would say that each experience had it's own unique quality. And the other two times I don't believe I was as certain that there was no "me" as seemed last night. The terror was about the same, though. The one thing that was universal in each experience was my discomfort at the magnitude of the feeling, my turning away from what felt like a surrender (you could use the word "dissolve" here as well) and a sense of awe immediately after which lasted a few minutes, but not as long as the first time which affected me for days. But it was a weird and wonderful reminder. Incidentally, I have not been trying to have any experiences, and meditate infrequently if I do at all, practice no real self-enquiry, and am currently without any goal of attaining enlightenment or whatever that means anyway. As I said, I'm trying to not go back to what I've heard and forget everything I know about all this, so I'm open to the fact that I know nothing, but perhaps someone could offer a perspective in a non-judgmental way? If it makes sense? Has anyone felt something akin to this and particularly the discomfort and turning away from it when you seen it? I don't read these forums too often and have kind of fell off the horse a bit with my personal development, or perhaps I'm just at a stage that isn't focused on spirituality, right now I'm more interested in reprogramming my subconscious, maybe the kind of videos Leo did a few years ago. It's kind of interesting that I am having these experiences, whatever they are, randomly and without any obvious prompt. Should I let go if/when it happens again, and why is it so terrifying? What could the consequences be? This is what I'm musing on anyway! Any perspectives are welcomed and I appreciate you taking the time to read this. Happy 2020!

I'm not really doing any practice to speak of, unsure what you mean here. You sound like you are speaking from experience, what has your experience been?

I suppose I've watched Leo go from championing enlightenment, to more recently saying almost noone should want it, as it doesn't serve them in the lives they are living. I have no idea where I lay on this spectrum, or if it's true - let's be honest we all need to figure it out for ourselves - but from what I've read and understood spirituality and awakening can be a big issue for people who are not ready for it, and not something to be taken lightly. Still, you are right about not making assumptions, I can't know and there's no point in overthinking it. Thanks for the answers. I'm glad to have had the experience as it has woken me up again (non-literally; reminded me) about what is true and what is delusion. I still can't understand how there is something, but actually nothing! And in those moments it's not even a question, you just understand...

@NahmThanks for taking the time to read and reply. You know I have had some luck with not trying to achieve anything in terms of spirituality, I may just try to continue to put my focus focus on Being and just let whatever happens unfold. Or not. I'm getting into concentration practice and just being still more, so let's see what doing that brings without putting any expectation on it. I would be surprised if I don't continue to have these experiences, and perhaps the next time I won't resist anything. I guess it felt like I was going "into" something else, even though the something was nothing... ah it's not easy or even necessary to explain. You know yourself! My ego is still running the show, but perhaps the cracks are beginning to show. It is not going to give up without a fight, it seems! Your last point is most interesting to me, creating a life worth awakening to... I'll be pondering this for a long time... it really resonated with me. Thanks for that! I have found that not seeking seems to be a good way for me to go, so I won't stress about any of this - I feel I may awaken in time. Pursuing stillness of quiet within seems a natural and non-attached way to go. I'm enjoying the journey even if it's slower or less focused than other's.

@Nahm Well living in this world it seems the smart move is to be wrong and feel great, because it's so much easier to function. However, of course I am curious about the truth and would rather not live in bullshit, it seems like a bit of a catch 22. The other concern I have is that I do stand-up comedy and I've always wondered would awakening help or hinder this? My hunch is that stand up is a very egoic-based, with an entirely egoic audience, so not sure how it would work. Although maybe more spiritual comedy might become more normal as more and more people awaken... but I have no idea what that would even look like, Russel Brand is the only one that comes to mind who has had a clear awakening experience. So...I don't have a genuine answer to your question. As of now I am moving towards staying with what's familiar, although the obviousness of the lie is becoming more apparent. May I ask, because I'm genuinely curious... have you surrendered and if so, what have the consequences been?

Thanks, I don't fully understand everything you mean here but I appreciate the time you took to answer. The idea of ego backlash makes sense. Edit: On a reread I think I get most if not all of what you are saying!

Thanks for responding. I guess that's all I wanted to hear. I am actually far more pragmatic and concerned about pursuing this way of life, as I've come to realise it usually causes as much distress and hardship as whatever there is to understand comes with huge and permanent consequences. A recent video of Leo's alerted me to this, and some of Jed McKenna's work as well. Clearly this is not the way for most people. The flip side of this is, of course, my interest in spirituality is alive and kicking again! Like, where the hell did this thing come from... kind of amazing it can hit you seemingly out of nowhere. Anyway just wanted to share my experiences and hear if it made sense to people. Appreciate the response I guess I don't really know what I am looking for but just wanted to talk to someone about it!

@Adilbek There is something about focusing on something like that that. I'm a believer now. I am going to choose another goal, perhaps another tangible one like a prize or definite outcome. Then I think it's attacking it from a series of angles, visualising morning and in bed at night. I was not drinking for 6 weeks so it gave me an unbroken chain of days to focus on it. Maybe it's just that singular focus that people talk about. the other thing I think is important is working as hard as you can on it, to take it out of the real of wishful thinking. Like you did by sending feelers out, not resting out your laurels but actively participating and getting it back. to me, that intuitively feels like it has to be part of it.

So, I decided to post here for the first time in probably 2+ years. I used to be more interested in self growth and personal development, and bought Leo's course to find my life purpose. I got hopelessly mired in the Life Purpose course and sort of drifted from spirituality, and all that stuff. Anyway, I recently begun doing stand up comedy, and it has felt like my Life Purpose since starting (although amazingly I didn't mention it or performing at all in my life purpose exercises, it just never occured to me even though it's so obvious now!!!) and almost a year to the day I did my first Open Mic, I won a comedy competition. I applied quite a bit of systematic visualisation towards winning, where I would close my eyes and state my goal (to Win this comp) and I would hear my name being called out as winner in a myriad of ways, or just my set going great, or see all the hard work up to it. Or all three. Then I would affirm this using positive affirmations ("I am a winner, I rise to the occasion, I love performing" or any variety of the sort. I also made a Vision Board for my Comedy, and put the poster for the final with my name as the winner typed out about it and some quotes as if from a news paper article underneath it. I also wrote out my name as winner of the best act and stuck it in my wallet and looked at it whenever I remembered. So to sum up: 1. For two weeks (roughly) before final, I visioned for around 10 mins upon waking up, and again in bed before going to sleep - using a 4 point system: say the goal, visualise the outcome, affirm to myself, and then affirm that this will manifest for me or something better will happen for the good of all concerned. (taken from a book on Leo's list) 2. I had my Vision Board on OneNote with some positive images, I looked at it sometimes. I also wrote out a winner speech type thing (basically just affirmations as a thank you speech). 3. I wrote an unsent email to a person stating I had already won the comp. 4. I had my goal on a queue card and also affirmations in my wallet which I read here and there over the two weeks. 5. I kept working and gigging as much as I could, and kept writing and rewriting my set up to the final minutes before the show. So, when it came to the day of the comp I was really sick with a headcold! I almost made excuses as I had put in a lot of work as mentioned above but thankfully I had bought the Magic of Thinking Big which had a perfect paragraph on not making excuses, and I put aside my ill feelings, did my set, did well. When my name was called as winner the MC said it wasn't even close and I had won the crowd vote and judges vote. I felt weak in the knees because I knew the two people who went after me had very strong sets and got a great crowd reaction. It was a real surreal moment for me, I felt like I had taken drugs, because the sense of mystery of the LOA process really stuck me, and there was like 100+ people looking at me on stage all weird. I imagined it and it all came true, the images were different because the room I didn't know, but everything else, a bit surreal. I felt like I had almost cheated the system, like I won by such a margin while sick and with stiff competition. So what am I asking? Well, the cynic in anyone would say you just focused your mind on it so much and worked hard and it had to go to someone and you were victorious. Then they would put this into a probability, say a 1 in 8 chance or because I tried so hard, maybe a 1 in 6 or something, So really, totally and absolutely the nature of luck as it occurs naturally in life. But I really visualised the name and hearing my name being called it, it definitely felt like something interesting was at work, like I had helped to shape this using my thoughts. I felt like my thought have this extraordinary power, and how I could use this in the future... it really unsettled me really! Ok here is an issue. I did do this with as much faith and confidence as I could, but there was no conviction in me that victory was ABSOLUTE, I still was hearing in my head other people's names being called out as winners, but I didn't put much stock on that, as the book said that happens and not to give it energy. When the winner was about to be called ,I was sure the last guy had been far better than me. Anyway, I'm hugely excited about this potential, but just wondering if anyone has any similar experiences. If @Leo Gura found this question/ topic interesting I'd love to hear his perspective. I watched the LOA video on actualised ages ago but haven't seen it in a while and it was recorded years ago so maybe his views have changed. I'm now a real believer in Visualisation/ LOA but I don't know how to go about harnessing it properly, or what my next goal should be. I feel like if I had a second goal I was working on at the same time, it would have been less effective, but that's just me. Anyway, I'd love to hear anyone's thoughts on this. I haven't written this as clearly or patiently as I could have, as it's 4am and I'm dying sick with a headcold and just groggy. So I am sorry for the messy nature of this post!

It's interesting you mention that, because I am curious ablut exploring some of these topics, making it accessible to an average crowd member could be challenging. One thing i hope i can do in time is take humour and stand up and build a real high order purpose through it, at the moment I'm learning and surviving and i don't have skill nor interest to explore outside that. I am really excited about comedy though and want to give everything for at least the next 12 months to see where i go with it.

Thanks for the pdf link!

@Nahm I somewhat disagree. Most comedians who make careers of it start in their teens or early 20's, but there are plenty of examples of people doing well starting in their 30's and beyond. The trick would be to expedite the process. The great thing is you have experience/ perspective to draw from, which can shortcut the process somewhat. EDIT: I do understand what you mean by 33 being young, relatively speaking. EDIT2: I have seen some of the roasts. Most of them aren't professional comedians I don't think

I think this is a big issue for people. Perhaps you need inspiration. Google a list of late bloomers or people who started something later in life. Also the book "100 ways to motivate yourself" is a great listen that can fire you up - there's a part about Anthony Burgess starting to write later in life. He wrote 80 books or so. You also have to be honest with yourself and some things will not be possible after a certain age e.g. wanting to become an Olympic swimmer in your 30s. There's no real way around this except for acceptance. But a lot of things will remain possible most/all of your life. Edit: I'm starting to do standup comedy at 33 (34 next month). It's very hard to be successful at this age, if I decide to do it for a career, but there are examples of people making it later in life. Comedy is not something you need to start at 18 to become world class at, but all the time helps of course.

Thanks for your reply. You make some good points!

Going to keep this as simple as I can. Have recently started doing some stand up. I really love it, and think it has potential to be a life purpose for me. I've done the life purpose course before but got stuck around the zone of genius part and never finished it. I am going through it again. When I did do it though, laughter and humour came up in my strengths and values top 3. I do remember thinking "I wonder if comedy could be a vocation" but assumed I am the wrong type for it. But it was probably the only thing that poped out as being in both of those and therefore likely to be a candidate for LP. Anyway, now that I've started into it, I see just how much ego is involved in comedy, and how damaged a lot of the people in it are. I am not awoken or anything like that, but I am pursuining consciouness work and working my way through Leo's book list as well. So one question is, does anyone know what the consequences of becoming enlightened or more awoken might be on a career in comedy, and as well, should you pursue a passion which has a lot of damaged/ broken/ bitter people involved? Who also tend to have desperately unhealthy lifestyles, for the most part, along with a lot of psychological issues, the kind of stuff Leo would cover every week I have become really fascinated with jokes and the art of comedy and it's really consuming me, so I feel it close to my purpose or at least it matches the things I am interested in, my strengths, values, etc. I think lettiong go of my ego would allow me to be free to express myself without getting damaged through the lack of acceptance, bombing, etc that all comics seem to go through. But if I lost my ego would I think the whole thing was stupid or reductive?

Hey thanks for the reply this was quite helpful!

It's really some new venture which I'm excited about. Perhaps comedy writing might be perfect, or something similar or with a theme. I wonder if I have more life experience now to draw from and that might give me some more clarity on LP. My perspective was always "I'd love to be that type of guy" but I don't think it was any more meaningful than looking at a singer and wishing I was a famous/ successful musician. It's not a burning dream I've had for years... but I think it might fit with my strengths and values. It certainly never seemed a reality for me as I assumed my personality was too fragile for it. Honestly, a lot of my growth in the last 2 years has made it a possibility for me. I wouldn't discount comedy for you if humour and playfulness is your top strength, I mean it could be connected somehow. I'm sure comedy and authentic connection can be mixed together.

Hey, I have had tinnitus for like 7 years now. I found it hard at first, but eventually came to accept it. For me, it comes in waves, I have one tinnitus that is always there, mainly in my left ear, and the last few years I've noticed a strange hum that comes and goes (in my perception at least) that is worse. Long story. Everytime I get stressed about it, I always remind myself that I eventually stop focusing on it. I also try to look at it as a strange ally, rather than an enemy. Like I'll tell myself that the sounds make me a better person. Not sure if it's true but what always works for me is just reminding myself that it does recede from your perception. I would also generally try to avoid googling it or looking for cures, it's a lot easier to just accept it and then forget about it.

Buddy that is fantastic to hear! Thank you for posting this and finding the link online. I really hope it can help you on your mission and journey; I'll return to it myself over the following weeks and months, finish my notes on it and we can have a good discussion about it. Got about 25 % through it - making notes - before I got distracted, which is always my biggest issue.

Hygiene means being clean, washing regularly. My girlfriend often has stubble under her arms and other places and it doesn't bother me at all. I think we are talking about different things. I began talking about hygiene without realising she asked about shaving/ grooming more specifically (i.e., I thought she was asking about hygiene and general things like that)

Dude you gotta get rid of this girl ASAP. No good can come from this. You can have amazing sex with a girl who doesn't cause you this much suffering. Forget about any rationalising, end this right now. I dated a girl who sounds very like her two years ago; sex was amazing, everything else was horrible. She punched me in the head when she was drunk, I also treated her badly to be fair. At the time I convinced myself with so much nonsense. Your girl may have a personality disorder, I suspect the girl I was seeing suffered with a Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD). It's not as rare as you might think (2% for BPD alone or something). Check it out and some ones like it. http://psychcentral.com/disorders/borderline-personality-disorder-symptoms/ But aside from diagnosing her like I did with my ex (which may not be accurate anyway), just stop seeing her. How likely is it that things will change, even if you are just having crazy wild sex? My suspicion is that you are still emotionally invested in this girl, and you will suffer because of this. I know, it's bloody easy for me to sit here and say all this to you. But I know it's the right advice. My new girlfriend is better looking, amazingly kind, fun, passionate, and we have even wilder, better, deeper sex than I ever did with my ex. It's on another level. But I couldn't be told that at the time and I suffered immeasurably for it. PM me if you want to talk more about this. I'm not being forceful or anything, I just know there's a better way.

My personal take is that when people have amazing chemistry it can and should happen the first night if that is what they both really want, but it's just more likely to happen after the 2nd or 3rd time generally (as a woman likes to feel safe and comfortable to trust the guy enough, in my experience). I personally have felt flattered a girl had enough comfort with me to hook up early, or I choose to interpret it as connection or chemistry. We are all sexual beings; I don't understand why women get shamed for this. For me, women often hold back because they think it makes them seen as "this or that", but I don't see it that way at all. If a woman is sexy, kind, fun and I really like her, I never think about how long it takes. However, perhaps counter-intuitively, I have been taken aback when a girl tells me she hooked up with a guy before on the first night if it took us a while longer. I mean, it could be completely out of her control (time of the month; previous bad experience) but contrary to other people, I found it less flattering when a woman waited to prove her whatever, if she went for it before with other people, even if she says it's because she liked me a lot. Again, it's in the interpretation. I know, other guys may see this as odd. I believe in the nature of the moment and if I hear a girl sleeps with a guy soon I almost always assume the two had chemistry/ a connection/ something else good in that moment. When someone waited a few dates, I often thought to myself "I must have not made her feel safe enough with me" even if that's not correct in the context or whatever her actual reason might be. There is some truth to waiting making the experience better and deeper, but I find I am happy for it to happen when the mood is right, even if that's only an hour after kissing for the first time, or whatever. So you can probably guess my view on hooking up and acting crazy the first night. I think it's great! As for hygiene, well this is a definite deal breaker for me, and I mean this from both sides. If someone doesn't care enough to have a basic level of hygiene and all that, it's a no go for me, always. No exceptions. I would expect a girl to be the same towards a guy regarding this.

Excellent advice, and great links to videos. Seen them both before; they are really important, mainly misunderstood topics.