kieranperez

Sounds like you’re uncovering how much fear has run your life and your motivations and discovering how you’ve been unknowingly choosing fear over love and your afraid to let that love go because if you choose love over fear your more vulnerable and exposed to the uncertainties of life which your fear is trying to protect you from but you now have too much clarity to let that drive your life anymore. As far as I can tell, this is huge. Right on! Happy for you and much love! Grow that love and be open to the uncertainty and possibilities of life!

Something your level of understanding isn’t open to because you think you have the world all figured out.

Sure but that has nothing to do with fear. An event, or “what is”, is what it is. The interpretation of the event is a totally different thing. Your fear isn’t something based on logic or rationality but rather irrationality and resistance to what is. Humans are not logical or rational. Logic and rationality are things people do. The self agenda and survival is resistance to the “process” and pursuit of enlightenment. Survival is the active resistance to the truth of impermanence. I want to be clear though because a lot of people go overboard and are too fantastical about enlightenment: if you’re in the room with a hungry wild lion and you’re all he has to eat, that lion will kill you. I’m not saying nor do I defend this bullshit notion that enlightenment makes you some survival expert. Anyone who subscribed to that is full of shit. On the other side to that though is, a lot of animals tend to attack because they can feel off of you. They can feel your fear. They can feel your hostility. Which is why people like Sadhguru are popular examples of an enlightened person who has mastered his emotions and such that he can display certain things like the things he does with cobras and their venom and all that stuff.

You can reach a point where that fear wouldn’t exist anymore. So that’s an assumption. There are even unenlightened people who aren’t afraid of such scenarios. In regards to everything else you said... At the end of the day, no one can nor is going to give you an accurate enough explanation to this stuff to the point where the truth of what’s being talked about makes sense to you experientially. Which is why you can read all the books and even if it makes sense to you on how all of this could be true and you start to see all the interconnections between all these traditions that have had virtually no contact with each other and are all talking about the same thing and you start creating a map in your head that’s not the territory, none of that still won’t change your fundamental experience of your reality because what is most fundamental was never changed and deconstructed or recontextualized. I personally encourage you to just rest your skepticism and get on the path and trust a little bit and that it will be worth it but hey, if you don’t, that’s your loss.

@Rilles @Wyze pointing out the fundamental premise of this post (Green moving into Turquoise) is false isn’t bashing. It’s pointing out all the ways she’s not accepting Turquoise and why she’s not and why she can’t. Pointing out the blind spots and all the ways those at Green deceive themselves isn’t bashing if you’re actually learning from it.

Okay. So at this point I’m not really surprised with what I feel but when I’m doing Mindfulness with Labeling “See, Hear, Feel”, the longer I go and when I go into the domain of feeling I literally feel just this sensation of this crying infant right at the center of my chest bone. At the same time I feel this tingling sensation at that same spot. It’s almost like this firecracker that’s continually spraying this tingling energy in my chest. When I see, hear, or feel an inner projection of anger or rage (I might think of my dad or someone yelling at me) I feel the sensation of that anger follow up from my chest and travels up my throat and that just hangs out there. At this point I’m not surprised by this, I’m not freaked out at all. I’ve done enough homework to know this is totally normal. It also hasn’t developed into something super “out there” where the sensation is killing me or is unbearable or I’m violently shaking or something like that. So it’s very tolerable and bearable. I feel like though, and I’m just intuiting this and roughly guessing, that this is that feeling of what Joseph Campbell describes as the torment from God from resisting the call out of fear and so forth. What are your guys’ take?

Separate Osho from his followers

Hmm... what does it mean to me as a value? Or what does it mean in some absolute existential metaphysical sense?

In the sense of ill be nothing in life and that I need to wake up or that it’s time to start pursuing enlightenment more seriously and start dedicating myself to this?

You're doing a huge service. So first off thank you. I’ve been in that spot when I was a teenager (can’t believe I’m saying that) when I was suicidal at that time and man, if you reach just 1 person who really hears you and feels you, that 1 person is more than you could probably ask for if you really impact them. I remember there would be suicide awareness speeches in my high school and whenever we had a good speaker, I literally felt that he was talking to me and I felt acknowledged and heard. As far as the hero’s journey, how deep are you going with it because obviously as a lot of us here on this forum know, what the hero’s journey is really pointing to is awakening and enlightenment and obviously those guys probably wouldn’t be that receptive to that if you’re being direct. For me, when I actually talk about the hero’s journey to people I actually get emotional (not in the sense that I’m crying) and people really feel that and it’s usually my strength when I communicate that I communicate from the heart and I do so emphatically and genuinely and people can really feel that off me when I do. So yeah, maybe food for thought.

In the last Spiral Dynamics video regarding the nuances of the model, @Leo Gura talked about Orange exploiting Yellow. What did you/he mean by this? I think I got what he's saying but I don't want to bet on it.

I would honestly leave it at this in your case @Torch. Start to really suffer and have your motivations really start to fall apart and then you’ll realize how urgent this call is. Have a midlife or existential crisis. Stop taking your life for granted. Contemplate your death. It’s one thing to theorize and be stuck in your head where you’re at. It’s another thing to REALLY start to see how much of a sham your everyday is and always has been. Start looking at other people and see what they got and realize you’re not that different from them and that if you don’t you’ll have what they have by default. Realize you’ve been living a lie. Don’t take this to some neurotic degree but I can honestly tell you, as someone whose at that point where I now see how much my life has been a lie and that most of my desires, thoughts, cravings, etc. probably aren’t even mine. I really think suffering REALLY grounds people. I’ve suffered a lot in my life and I think where I’ve been fortunate in my suffering is that I sought to be within myself in those times of suffering. When you go through real hard times you see how quickly the people you thought were your friends actually weren’t. You see the people you thought loved you unconditionally actually don’t. Not because you’re a bad person or because they’re assholes. This is doubled edged sword because people can become really neurotic, dysfunctional, total victims and in danger to themselves (in the suicidal way) but I see a lot of people who’ve taken a lot of their life for granted. They haven’t actually really suffered and faced real existential crisis and haven’t been in that place where they’re desperate for something real and genuine. Being stripped of everything really can teach and show you something powerful. Just don’t take it over the top. Also recognize your own suffering that you’re hiding from yourself.

What about all the Turquoise people that are content with a smaller impact? The Zen masters and sages who instead stay in their hut (metaphorically speaking).

Yeah I don’t see any acceptantance or transcendence of Green and transtion into Turquoise. If anything this a perfect example of how Green serves spirituality when it’s convenient and through platitudes but when their agenda is threatened, the hell with the truth. They want their ass, their beliefs, their ideology kept in tact. I notice a lot with hippies (which I saw in this video) where they talk about how grateful they are to even have an ego and a self to experience the world and all this stuff but really that act only goes on until they’re agenda is threatened.

To an extent. You can still have powerful orange inventors like when Bill Gates started Microsoft.

Do the practice. Reading a business book that tells you how to become rich isn’t what makes you rich. You have to actually do it. Reading a book about how to get more girls isn’t what gets you more girls. No. That’s a story that someone told you. I am more fulfilled and at peace when I’m alone. If you’re going to make excuses that’s totally fine but the only reason you’re not happy by yourself is because you don’t accept yourself and because you can’t be with yourself. You fundamentally don’t like who you are and are trying to run from yourself. If you’re going to cover that with neediness and then rationalize that as “we’re social creatures” and believe that you can but that’s still fundamentally not true. You can be happy no matter what but you’d love to have some fake relationship give you the very acceptance you won’t give yourself. That by the way will never work because so long as you don’t accept and love who you are nor can you actually truly sit with yourself in solitude, you won’t be able to accept the love of anyone else. Enlightenment doesn’t really need or have to take lifetimes depending on your level of commitment.

Assuming you actually love the woman or man your with... which most people don’t.

There's no "usual" or "unusual" form of neediness. Neediness is neediness. "It's more of a biological thing" is just an excuse. I'm not saying this with the goal of belittling you but you need to understand that if you were well within yourself, you were actually happy, you really accepted yourself, this "need" would seem stupid. I want to make the distinction between need and want. Wanting someone in your life is very different from needing someone. The reality is you don't need anyone. That's just a fucking fact. Having a genuine authentic desire to be with someone independent of needing someone that comes from a sense of lack (and a lot of people say they have that authentic desire but they only say that because they're just so needy they don't know they're even lying to themselves). I haven't gotten laid in over a year now and not a single day goes by I actually feel like I need someone or really want someone. I don't really have the desire or have a day I miss being in a relationship and I've been single now going on almost 3 years. There's a deeper problem you need to address and to me it reads pretty loud and clear: "I need someone to help me feel full because I don't like myself."

@Viking so in other words, your needy for someone?

@Hellspeed I have no idea what that meant at all. Please provide some context. @Joseph Maynor what do you recommend then personally? @VioletFlame wow that a awesome! Happy for you! Most of my thoughts when I feel this stuff involve this screaming rage and negative thoughts about my future which I know have been projected onto by my parents of being this incompetent loser that has no skills, always fucks things up and has really become a very disempowering and crippling self image. I don’t really like talking about it too much but to be honest my main “thought response” to these thoughts are images of me beating someone’s face in. There’s a lot of anger I have inside but I don’t have a place I can really express it. If I were REALLY honest with my dad about what I feel I’d be thrown out of the house and have the locks changed on me with nowhere to go (I’ve had this threatened to me multiple times) and I’m very berated and shamed because of my anger. He projects to me that I’m the same as my deluded mentally ill mother who he contributed to her fragmention of her own psyche which lead to the collapse of our entire family. Not to say he’s some evil devil he’s just one of those moralistic dogmatic new age materialistic atheists who says “either it’s mental illness or you’re a bad person” and if it’s “mental illness” I’m not in control I’m supposedly sick and I can’t trust myself and all this stuff. He means well but he’s ignorant through no fault of his own I guess. I do have a lot of anger and I’m tired of it. It’s like this ingrained groove of operating and I’m tired of it. My only mode of motivating myself even is this aggressive “fuck all you I’ll show you” but that doesn’t even last more than a few minutes and I know it’s bullshit. @Angelite “better” is relative. Also most people including most runners have never felt a real runners high. If you’re talking feeling good flow states, that comes with mastery. It’d take me too long to explain the whole thing but running has been my life for the last 11 years and that drive is my close to dead. Running is not some effortless thing. People who say that haven’t actually put in the time and investment in the sport. Running comes easier to me than most people because I have the body for it and aways have but at this point I don’t necessarily feel better on a run. I’m also not in a space geographically where I enjoy it at all

Very rare that’s the case. Pay more attention

Happiness

Every time this fear sets in right now, I feel this extreme sense of anxiety in my chest that I can't express here at home so I hold it in. This sense of wanting to scream because I'm so terrified, anxious, frustrated, angry about how I don't think I can live up to my life purpose. I'm so terrified to leave home in this psychological state. I'm terrified to work a low end job right now, without a car, without much money, etc. It's literally this sense of my inner safety is being threatened. It's almost like a flight or fight response is being triggered that I'm trying to hold in but can't express. Between not having a support system to support my own endeavors, to this fear of I'm going to get sucked into this system and pulled in because I just can't do this and how I'm going to end up working a low end job and wasting my life and I can't seek professional help because I can't afford is driving this sense of panic and helplessness in yet I know it's my own mind but I can't stop. I'm so angry and frustrated at myself and at the 2 people that belittle me home and I can't calm down in yet I have to hold this in so I don't throw a fit and I'm constantly belittled in yet I have nowhere to go and no one to talk to. I think 'okay I'll get a low end job, start a business that isn't "the one" but "is the one to the one" and then work really hard but I get all these negative associations of doing low end sleazy marketing to get people to buy a stupid product I don't believe in or care about that doesn't have much substance or integrity or true value to it and then think I'll learn a more valuable skill like programming a get a better job but I'm like 'the whole reason I'm doing this is to escape wage slavery not fall into it! And what makes me so confident that I'll be successful in business?! What makes me so arrogant and confident that all because I have a business that means I'm all good?! I'll have this stupid business I don't care about that serves a stupid function and purpose that I'll hate funneling to people that I don't believe in at all when I know that enlightenment and awakening people is what matters more to me anyways!" It's the feeling of being trapped and I know my mind is the obstacle but I feel like I'm being closed down. I look at people like certain enlightened people that I really admire and just think to myself "how do I do that with my life?" Not follow them which is why I'm not that fond of doing the whole join a monastery thing and join some orthodox order but how do I emulate what those people accomplished and deliver THAT to the world and make THAT my impact? Then I "return" back to my everyday circumstances and just cry because I feel like this is a fucking fantasy. I really don't know what to do...

Lying to myself isn’t a solution nor has it ever worked. Affirmations cause me more emotional distraught than any other technique I’ve ever done.