kieranperez

Hmm... what does it mean to me as a value? Or what does it mean in some absolute existential metaphysical sense?

In the sense of ill be nothing in life and that I need to wake up or that it’s time to start pursuing enlightenment more seriously and start dedicating myself to this?

You're doing a huge service. So first off thank you. I’ve been in that spot when I was a teenager (can’t believe I’m saying that) when I was suicidal at that time and man, if you reach just 1 person who really hears you and feels you, that 1 person is more than you could probably ask for if you really impact them. I remember there would be suicide awareness speeches in my high school and whenever we had a good speaker, I literally felt that he was talking to me and I felt acknowledged and heard. As far as the hero’s journey, how deep are you going with it because obviously as a lot of us here on this forum know, what the hero’s journey is really pointing to is awakening and enlightenment and obviously those guys probably wouldn’t be that receptive to that if you’re being direct. For me, when I actually talk about the hero’s journey to people I actually get emotional (not in the sense that I’m crying) and people really feel that and it’s usually my strength when I communicate that I communicate from the heart and I do so emphatically and genuinely and people can really feel that off me when I do. So yeah, maybe food for thought.

In the last Spiral Dynamics video regarding the nuances of the model, @Leo Gura talked about Orange exploiting Yellow. What did you/he mean by this? I think I got what he's saying but I don't want to bet on it.

I would honestly leave it at this in your case @Torch. Start to really suffer and have your motivations really start to fall apart and then you’ll realize how urgent this call is. Have a midlife or existential crisis. Stop taking your life for granted. Contemplate your death. It’s one thing to theorize and be stuck in your head where you’re at. It’s another thing to REALLY start to see how much of a sham your everyday is and always has been. Start looking at other people and see what they got and realize you’re not that different from them and that if you don’t you’ll have what they have by default. Realize you’ve been living a lie. Don’t take this to some neurotic degree but I can honestly tell you, as someone whose at that point where I now see how much my life has been a lie and that most of my desires, thoughts, cravings, etc. probably aren’t even mine. I really think suffering REALLY grounds people. I’ve suffered a lot in my life and I think where I’ve been fortunate in my suffering is that I sought to be within myself in those times of suffering. When you go through real hard times you see how quickly the people you thought were your friends actually weren’t. You see the people you thought loved you unconditionally actually don’t. Not because you’re a bad person or because they’re assholes. This is doubled edged sword because people can become really neurotic, dysfunctional, total victims and in danger to themselves (in the suicidal way) but I see a lot of people who’ve taken a lot of their life for granted. They haven’t actually really suffered and faced real existential crisis and haven’t been in that place where they’re desperate for something real and genuine. Being stripped of everything really can teach and show you something powerful. Just don’t take it over the top. Also recognize your own suffering that you’re hiding from yourself.

What about all the Turquoise people that are content with a smaller impact? The Zen masters and sages who instead stay in their hut (metaphorically speaking).

Yeah I don’t see any acceptantance or transcendence of Green and transtion into Turquoise. If anything this a perfect example of how Green serves spirituality when it’s convenient and through platitudes but when their agenda is threatened, the hell with the truth. They want their ass, their beliefs, their ideology kept in tact. I notice a lot with hippies (which I saw in this video) where they talk about how grateful they are to even have an ego and a self to experience the world and all this stuff but really that act only goes on until they’re agenda is threatened.

To an extent. You can still have powerful orange inventors like when Bill Gates started Microsoft.

Do the practice. Reading a business book that tells you how to become rich isn’t what makes you rich. You have to actually do it. Reading a book about how to get more girls isn’t what gets you more girls. No. That’s a story that someone told you. I am more fulfilled and at peace when I’m alone. If you’re going to make excuses that’s totally fine but the only reason you’re not happy by yourself is because you don’t accept yourself and because you can’t be with yourself. You fundamentally don’t like who you are and are trying to run from yourself. If you’re going to cover that with neediness and then rationalize that as “we’re social creatures” and believe that you can but that’s still fundamentally not true. You can be happy no matter what but you’d love to have some fake relationship give you the very acceptance you won’t give yourself. That by the way will never work because so long as you don’t accept and love who you are nor can you actually truly sit with yourself in solitude, you won’t be able to accept the love of anyone else. Enlightenment doesn’t really need or have to take lifetimes depending on your level of commitment.

Assuming you actually love the woman or man your with... which most people don’t.

There's no "usual" or "unusual" form of neediness. Neediness is neediness. "It's more of a biological thing" is just an excuse. I'm not saying this with the goal of belittling you but you need to understand that if you were well within yourself, you were actually happy, you really accepted yourself, this "need" would seem stupid. I want to make the distinction between need and want. Wanting someone in your life is very different from needing someone. The reality is you don't need anyone. That's just a fucking fact. Having a genuine authentic desire to be with someone independent of needing someone that comes from a sense of lack (and a lot of people say they have that authentic desire but they only say that because they're just so needy they don't know they're even lying to themselves). I haven't gotten laid in over a year now and not a single day goes by I actually feel like I need someone or really want someone. I don't really have the desire or have a day I miss being in a relationship and I've been single now going on almost 3 years. There's a deeper problem you need to address and to me it reads pretty loud and clear: "I need someone to help me feel full because I don't like myself."

@Viking so in other words, your needy for someone?

@Hellspeed I have no idea what that meant at all. Please provide some context. @Joseph Maynor what do you recommend then personally? @VioletFlame wow that a awesome! Happy for you! Most of my thoughts when I feel this stuff involve this screaming rage and negative thoughts about my future which I know have been projected onto by my parents of being this incompetent loser that has no skills, always fucks things up and has really become a very disempowering and crippling self image. I don’t really like talking about it too much but to be honest my main “thought response” to these thoughts are images of me beating someone’s face in. There’s a lot of anger I have inside but I don’t have a place I can really express it. If I were REALLY honest with my dad about what I feel I’d be thrown out of the house and have the locks changed on me with nowhere to go (I’ve had this threatened to me multiple times) and I’m very berated and shamed because of my anger. He projects to me that I’m the same as my deluded mentally ill mother who he contributed to her fragmention of her own psyche which lead to the collapse of our entire family. Not to say he’s some evil devil he’s just one of those moralistic dogmatic new age materialistic atheists who says “either it’s mental illness or you’re a bad person” and if it’s “mental illness” I’m not in control I’m supposedly sick and I can’t trust myself and all this stuff. He means well but he’s ignorant through no fault of his own I guess. I do have a lot of anger and I’m tired of it. It’s like this ingrained groove of operating and I’m tired of it. My only mode of motivating myself even is this aggressive “fuck all you I’ll show you” but that doesn’t even last more than a few minutes and I know it’s bullshit. @Angelite “better” is relative. Also most people including most runners have never felt a real runners high. If you’re talking feeling good flow states, that comes with mastery. It’d take me too long to explain the whole thing but running has been my life for the last 11 years and that drive is my close to dead. Running is not some effortless thing. People who say that haven’t actually put in the time and investment in the sport. Running comes easier to me than most people because I have the body for it and aways have but at this point I don’t necessarily feel better on a run. I’m also not in a space geographically where I enjoy it at all

Very rare that’s the case. Pay more attention

Happiness

Every time this fear sets in right now, I feel this extreme sense of anxiety in my chest that I can't express here at home so I hold it in. This sense of wanting to scream because I'm so terrified, anxious, frustrated, angry about how I don't think I can live up to my life purpose. I'm so terrified to leave home in this psychological state. I'm terrified to work a low end job right now, without a car, without much money, etc. It's literally this sense of my inner safety is being threatened. It's almost like a flight or fight response is being triggered that I'm trying to hold in but can't express. Between not having a support system to support my own endeavors, to this fear of I'm going to get sucked into this system and pulled in because I just can't do this and how I'm going to end up working a low end job and wasting my life and I can't seek professional help because I can't afford is driving this sense of panic and helplessness in yet I know it's my own mind but I can't stop. I'm so angry and frustrated at myself and at the 2 people that belittle me home and I can't calm down in yet I have to hold this in so I don't throw a fit and I'm constantly belittled in yet I have nowhere to go and no one to talk to. I think 'okay I'll get a low end job, start a business that isn't "the one" but "is the one to the one" and then work really hard but I get all these negative associations of doing low end sleazy marketing to get people to buy a stupid product I don't believe in or care about that doesn't have much substance or integrity or true value to it and then think I'll learn a more valuable skill like programming a get a better job but I'm like 'the whole reason I'm doing this is to escape wage slavery not fall into it! And what makes me so confident that I'll be successful in business?! What makes me so arrogant and confident that all because I have a business that means I'm all good?! I'll have this stupid business I don't care about that serves a stupid function and purpose that I'll hate funneling to people that I don't believe in at all when I know that enlightenment and awakening people is what matters more to me anyways!" It's the feeling of being trapped and I know my mind is the obstacle but I feel like I'm being closed down. I look at people like certain enlightened people that I really admire and just think to myself "how do I do that with my life?" Not follow them which is why I'm not that fond of doing the whole join a monastery thing and join some orthodox order but how do I emulate what those people accomplished and deliver THAT to the world and make THAT my impact? Then I "return" back to my everyday circumstances and just cry because I feel like this is a fucking fantasy. I really don't know what to do...

Lying to myself isn’t a solution nor has it ever worked. Affirmations cause me more emotional distraught than any other technique I’ve ever done.

This reminds me of a joke I heard from a monk one time in the form of a story he gave: ”A disciple once asked his guru ‘do we need ego to function in the world?’ The master said, ‘you just need enough to make sure you don’t step in front of the moving bus.’”

Though Wilber isn’t addressing this directly, the beginning of this very much covers the overarching narrative and also problem I see people falling into where people want to use the sprial dynamics and states and stages as a way to create this cartoon character of a perfect human being which I see a lot of people really falling into. Particularly when I see people listening to TJ Reeves and falling into this mental masterbation of Coral and beyond and how they want to embody the entire Spiral and they want to turn themselves into some fantasy of the perfect human being whose Turquoise say all across the various lines of development and states and stages. Don’t use sprial dynamics as a form of perfectionism! It’s a model and only a model. Cover your bases, clean up your shadow, stick to your strengths and do the best you can.

Where the fuck do you see me worshipping Ken Wilber? Cut your projections and assumptions. I’m sharing a video that is based around a critical point that Wilber is making. Keep your comments onto the subject being posted about. I don’t worship anyone.

Every famous legend of enlightened person was strategic. It took strategic thinking for Patanjali to see how Yoga was becoming this overly nuanced thing and then distilled yoga down into the 100+ yoga sutras to ground people. The story of Christ shows a man who is almost like a scientist doing trial and error, seeing what ways he could lead people to the realization of God. Through speaking through parables, healings, etc. that’s strategic thinking. Highly developed sages of today have to be extremely strategic and be very well aware of how systems work. A good example is Shunyamurti and Ken Wilber. Understanding that healthy spiritual development demands healthy ego development and healing and they have to be extremely strategic on how they go about doing that with people. It took Om Swami extreme dedication of strategic thinking and commitment to his highest strategic intent to say at 20 years old that his going to put a 10 year cap to his business life and then renounce it at all... while making $250k p/year... AT 20! Can you imagine going from nothing to rich in 2 years through staggering hard work as an immigrant and then have enough clarity on what you want to wait 10 years only to then give it up? Think about that. You’re making that much money as a result of all your hard work, you know you’re going to renounce, but you wait 10 years. And during that time you do what you need to do and not being impatiently neurotic individual, progressively building your capital and also your practice.

I'm not attracting teachers. I'm actually out there looking for them. You need to be going to them. Period. Research, Google, email, websites, etc. There's no magic Law of Attraction secret.

@MsNobody wow I got to save these on my computer for my vision board! Thanks @thehero Make sure you NEVER ask an artist that LOL

Is evolution just God trying to becoming more and more conscious of itself?