kieranperez

Maybe this is just a distinction I’m making, which I’m starting to intuit it is, but I got curious a few minutes ago when I was looking at a man I saw at a train station and then I had a mental image of him and then a question popped up “why would the mental image by less real than what I see with my so called eyes?” The substance is the same isn’t it? If I see a woman standing in front of me I say she’s real but if I close my eyes and hold that same image of her in “my minds eye” there seems to be an unquestioned assumption that that mental picture is somehow less real. Both arise in my awareness. Something I’m missing here?

I actually most agree with you. The contradiction I think is made on Shunyas part I think is that, God is infinitely intelligent so why would postmodernism be a mistake then? Why would the postmodern ego be an exception to the design of evolution? I think where my skepticism is raised on your claim is... why can’t reality be cyclical? I think one of the overall traps that isn’t addressed enough overall is that evolution doesn’t necessarily mean that human beings get more evolved. The progress of evolution goes beyond the human agenda which I don’t think enough people really look at. I think where it gets hairy for people is when we consider that the introduction technology and AI and maybe AI is the next step up in conscious evolution beyond humans.

+1

Personally I think it’s just a reaction to the resistance of the revelation of how society, culture, morality, etc. is relative. I have a few coworkers who’ve been reacting to this and have talked about JP in this light where they’ve said to me how everything being relative is dangerous. However, in another light, I think Jordan Peterson has a particular resonance among young millennial white males who, like myself admittedly, have gotten mentally weak for a variety of different reasons (turbulent emotional upbringing, coddled through life, feeling absolutely stuck in victim mindset and like a slave to your minds conditioning, etc.). For me I can really feel it in what we might say as his emotional undercurrent in the way he talks about ownership, being a hero, standing by your personal rules and code of conduct (very - healthy in my opinion - blue), and taking back your life and standing up to the darkness of yourself and of society. You feel this a lot when you’re involved in sports (particularly team sports) and this very male energy of ‘I’m going to stand tall despite my inner demons and I’m going to embrace them, own them, and stand by what I believe and what I stand for even in the face of both inner and outer opposition.’ You see this attitude reflected a lot even just by seeing the kinda workout motivation stuff on YouTube and Instagram. Again, it’s like the undercurrent that really drives that. It’s a very male energy that I don’t think a lot of men understand why they tend to be sucked into his message. Its that very male (almost primal) aggressive energy (it’s really more of an energy than it is an attitude) of ‘I’m going to take it all. I’m going to embrace the inner and outer demons of my life and stand up for what’s right.’ The problem though is that energy is both very polarizing and also just kills happiness. I know this personally because both actually apply to me. I really had that aggressive attitude in sports and really carried that without even knowing it. It really hurts you. I’m not a fan of JP but I notice now that I actually debate very much like him. I used to wonder for the longest time why I’m so polarizing to people and looking at JP really shows me why. You really can’t be happy going through life this way. You’re constantly judging and projecting. It’s really toxic and a really bad habit that’s hard to unwire because that’s a survival tool to defend yourself in the clan/herd. It’s like a way of protecting yourself. I hope he outgrows it. I really don’t wish it on people. If he worked on just this one thing he’d become such a healthier figure. I think he means well deep down but he just has some shadows to work on and really drop this whole thing.

@Leo Gura have you listened to Doshin Roshi's position on both Jordan Peterson and Green/postmodernism as well as Shunyamurti's take on what he calls "the postmodern ego" and his whole thing on the Kali Yuga and the ego is actually devolving? It's almost like a paradox really between these 2 because they both have truth in them. On the one hand, we can clearly see that there has been progress in culture, explained very clearly through Spiral Dynamics. For example, the abolition of traditional slavery. On the other hand, we're noticing now just how dysfunctional the modern and postmodern ego is really becoming to the point of incompetency which could really lead to our annihilation. Shunyamurti has some great talks and explanations on this as I'm sure you're well aware of. However, both you've mentioned that human beings are too selfish to die off so easy (which I definitely see the wisdom in that insight) and even Wilber has said in the past how we easily dismiss too easily the creative will and power of the collective human spirit in the face of great challenge (basically saying what you're saying but in a more... "polished" way for the public to swallow). Would love to get your take on this.

@7thLetter you misunderstand discipline. Discipline is committing to and working really hard at what you love to do even when you may not feel like it. I assure you, there are days when painters and artists of all kinds (painters, athletes, directors, etc.) have days and even periods where they don't feel like doing what it is they intrinsically want to do. People have this association with discipline and commitment with something that they hate and that it's all pain and struggle. If you love to do something, that thing get's you through that pain and struggle. People just often commit themselves to things that they know deep down they don't see any value in so they're working really hard while deep down they resent it. That's not a problem with discipline and commitment. That's a problem of priorities. At the end of the day, commitment and discipline is one of the biggest critical components that separate most people. This cannot be avoided. Not as a "people are just too goddamn lazy." Sure, that's true in one sense but there are those people out there who cognitively, psychologically, physically, and emotionally handle more strain and work. Most basketball players in the NBA don't have it in them to have the Jordan or Kobe work ethic. Most meditators don't have the work ethic or level of discipline to go through some of the crazy shit a lot of yogis and monks go through to attain full liberation. That's not always a fault, some people are just more talented and have a greater all around psychological capacity to endure more. Also, I'm not discounting passion. You need to know what you're passionate about so you can all in on that and apply that work ethic in that rather into something you hate, resent, and can't stand. Get crystal clear on your passion and double down on it with creativity on how to execute it and also double down with the commitment and discipline.

Passion get's you out the door. Commitment and discipline is what keeps you from coming right back in. I assure you, you can really love say cycling and have a strong passion for cycling. Not everyday you're going to excited and want to jump out the door and want to ride 50-60 miles in rain through tons of steep climbs, hard intervals, etc.

@Greg O don't take the thing I say about Zen too literally. I'm saying that's one way Zen portrays it. It has nothing to do with Zen p/say. And in a sense yes. Have you noticed that all because you're enlightened that doesn't mean you behave and act like every other enlightened person? Of course they don't. Shinzen Young doesn't behave as let's say Christ. One of the powerful things that's powerful and really helpful with enlightenment experiences and this entire spiritual work in general is that you start to discover what you truly want, what are your true genuine authentic motives and passions, etc. Not what you were programmed with when you were young with movies, TV, video games, fiction books, parental and societal programming and values and so on. This stuff manifests in different ways for different people. Which is why enlightenment work is so important because it's how you start living an authentic genuine life. I remember in Leo's interview with Ralston Leo brought up the common concern people have of if someone get's enlightened then they'll have to change their life and Ralston said, 'this is not true. You wouldn't have to change your life. You'd want to change your life. That's very different." This theme of the 10th Ox Herding picture is also a good example of why a lot of Zen holds the Bodhisattva higher than the Arhat who just abides in some nondual bliss.

It's the same as "Return With Elixir" in Joseph Campbell's Hero's Journey. It's not a fixed thing for everybody that goes full circle with enlightenment. This is the goal but understand that what you're describing here is very rare. The return to the marketplace is Christ after he returns from his 40 days and 40 nights fasting in the desert post-enlightenment and now comes back to the world (how did that whole enlightenment thing work out?). All because they're now of service to those suffering doesn't mean it pans out that way nor does it mean he/she is accepted either. It can also be very small scale like it's often beautifully portrayed in Zen but also be very big and mass scale (Sadhguru is a perfect - yet extremely rare - example of this today). I personally love the example @Leo Gura has given in the past which is the theme of the hero returning back to the village with gold and it's turned to ashes because the people don't get it, don't want it, etc. which is why you have the theme like say in Star Wars of Yoda living on that swamp planet. I'm personally very moved by the 10th Ox Herding Picture in the more simple low key sort of way. One of the things that I think most people miss is if you look at any (legend of) enlightened person. There's always a character there and they're different in a sense one from another. Buddha goes about his enlightenment VERY different than that of Christ. Heraclitus has a very different character than Ramana Maharshi. This is why enlightened people express their enlightenment very differently. What's the component for why that is? I would deem it to be authenticity.

You can be at Turquoise in your spiritual development and be very low in your moral development, cognitive development, etc. You can be enlightened and still have a lot of problems with say your shadow (which is a lot of what Ken Wilber has been trying to address and wake people up on in his work because enlightenment doesn’t solve that). Enlightened beings aren’t perfect. Spiritual communities are so tricky. I’m honestly blown away by spiritual masters like Shunyamurti who I often talk about and how he runs Sat Yoga Ashram & Institute and community as powerfully effective as he does. Like any community, spiritual or not, you will have problems. It takes an extraordinary degree of humility, mastery, embodied selfless living, leadership, vision, systems thinking, etc. to run such a collective organism. It’s so far beyond just enlightenment. Most enlightened people are not capable of such a thing. You can also be very spiritually developed but be a lousy leader and teacher. I like to use the analogy of sports for this. Michael Jordan is one of the best to ever walk on a basketball court as a player but as an executive and talent recruiter, he was horrible. Phil Jackson on the other hand, yeah he made it to the NBA and he was decent but was a much better leader and teacher than he ever was a player.

Gamana's 5th book in his series This book is all about how do you take the entire realization of God and permeate and transform your entire being.

@Preetom have you read this one? It just came out like 2 months ago

*pounds table demanding when I get to find out when I get to see Leo’s legs*

Any update on dates for Phase 1? I’m in SF and it’d be helpful to know ahead of time so I can submit my RTO 3 weeks in advance. Also, will there be an announcement on what the emphasis of this seminar/meetup will be about, what it will entail, etc.?

I feel like these problems never stop adding on and I’m tired of making these posts, not having anyone in my life around me to talk to for support and to stop moralizing and projecting onto me... On top of all the posts I’ve made, I just found out 2 days ago now that I’m trying to move out from home that I’m about $20-25,000 in debt (and I didn’t even go to college). This isn’t from credit cards as I’ve never even had a credit card. I had a surgery 4 + years ago that my parents told me they took care of but apparently never did. That surgery alone is about $12,000 in medical bills. I felt such a flight/fight response I got headsick on the quiet street I was on and went to a bush and puked. Then I found out looking through my mail that I owe another $11,000+ in bridge tolls when I was told by my dad he covered me under Fast attack (just a bridge toll service here in SF) and apparently that never happened so. I literally had a panic attack by myself. I called a financial planner and was told after everything that this is probably going to take me 8 years to pay off if I have to pay it off on my own. My heart sank and I honestly just felt like ending it right there. I cannot believe any of this. How does all of this shit never end?!?! It’s not bad enough I’ve been moralized to my entire life and how I never learned to trust myself and make my own decisions, how I never had a stable childhood and had family problems no one at my school or friends could ever relate to because they didn’t have a mom who caused commotion throughout the whole town trying to kill herself most days of the week, having parents who I realized recently don’t actually love me and accept me, having this fucking ego whose tentacles reach into every crevasse of my authentic self which is based on other people’s projections of me, that my life purpose is so inspiring it’s demoralizing because its impossible (it’s pretty much what Shunyamurti has at Sat Yoga in Costa Rica but something different), that I have no friends, that I have no work ethic anymore because every time I’ve ever failed someone had to be in my face and yell at me for what I did wrong, etc. and now I’m $25k in debt?!?! It’s not even the circumstances that have me most upset. It’s my mind. I have this screaming voice 24/7 all day driving me crazy based on projections. I feel like my mind is falling apart. I’m so fucking angry and so hurt and so demoralized. I dont even want to be in society and now I feel like a fucking slave because I am. I want to do what the people I’m most inspired by do like @Leo Gura, Ralston, Shunyamurti, and Om Swami. I want to really leave society and then return and start something like Sat Yoga but maybe smaller which is truly inspiring to me and is like “yes! That’s a model of what I want to offer!” However, I also feel terror and such a deep depression when I come back down from fantasy land that I honesty feel like shooting myself because I look at what’s around me (the shit in my head, my beliefs, this fucking ego that represents all the projections of others that I get sucked into and feels like me and holds me where I’m at, all the petty fucking people around me who project onto me because they think they know better and have it all figured out, etc.) and I feel like this is truly impossible and that I’m just going to waste my life. I prayed in tears yesterday for the first time in my life begging for help. I can’t afford professional help to help me in business, to take courses, to learn all this shit or to get the neurofeedback to help me with this horrendous ADHD that keeps causing a lot of these issues. I feel like I’m going to be sheep the rest of my life and I’d rather be dead than be a slave to the pettiness, this unconscious hedonism that doesn’t satisfy anything or deliever anything fucking real. A sheep life is a wasted life and I don’t want to live and die with that feeling knowing I wasted this. This has been building for more than 10+ years and just seems to get worse every single day. I don’t even know what love feels like in order to give it to myself anymore.

This is huge. I’ve been noticing in tiny tastes how much my whole world is made up of unconscious distinctions. It’s really illuminating

This has already been settled in a previous post

Mark Hyman is a GREAT example of Yellow. What he’s doing in the medical field and all the work he’s doing in nutrition is fabulous.

No caption does justice to this amazing meme

@Hellspeed by far the most full of shit user on here. The amount of shit and incoherent nonsense you talk on here is astounding. You talk about how you can heal people from afar, how awake you are (in the most incoherent way a person can communicate), in yet I look at your profile and it’s clear you spend the majority of your time since joining this forum talking shit about how supposedly enlightened you are and you can heal people and all this nonsense. If you can do this stuff and you are as awake as you are, go out and do something and walk your talk. You have no business then being on this forum talking shit and spewing incoherent nonsensical statement like “speak to his chest” and all this bullshit. If you’re so much more awake than all other enlightened people, go out in the world and walk your talk. Put your money where your mouth is. You joined in September in yet you already have 1000+ posts spewing nonsense in yet you have the arrogance to talk down to other people. If not, just be honest that you’re just another grumpy little gremlin on any other forum talking shit and talking big but lives small doing nothing else but spending time talking shit on a forum.

I used to work 2 stores down from his aikido dojo. Awesome book. So simple. So true.

This brings up a question I have that I’d love a more in depth answer on, even though you’ve touched on it in some of your videos on your blog: there’s a lot of different things people can awaken to... Unconditional divine love Infinite intelligence The “mind of God” Ones true nature What existence/life is Nothingness The collapse of the real vs unreal and how life is a dream What the mind is What is another Obviously can keep probably keep going on. My question is more along the lines of... what determines one’s degree of depth of these different facets of enlightenment? As that doesn’t seem to be something I hear a lot of teachers talk about but I remember you’ve talked about on your vlogs on your blog, particularly on your 30 day meditation challenge, how when you’re taking those daily rounds of 5-MeO that you can’t see how a human being can possibly awaken to facets that deep. There seems to be depths of awakening of even particular facets. For example someone can awaken to No-Self on a shallow level and someone can awaken to No-Self in a radically deeper way. Would love to get your take on this matter as I don’t hear it talked about that much

I don’t know why people keep saying this. Thank you. Yes I’m employed. Full time, no. If it was any other city than San Francisco I feel like this would be way more doable to move especially if I still had my car. I’m probably going to have to stay in SF because I wouldn’t have any other means of moving somewhere outside of SF plus that would probably take a lot longer and my dad (and I) wants me out now. SF is like $1100 for a tiny room in most cases (and that’s cheap). I can probably find one of those liberal communal houses they have here but honestly a lot of them are borderline stage green cults but I’ll look I guess. Im just discouraged cause if I did move I’m afraid im going to have to have to live in some horrible area where I’m even more stuck, have to somehow come up with some way to escape being a wage slave and all this shit. Thanks @Arthur. To be as clear as I can on what my vision is (which is hard to describe I mostly just go by examples of others to give an idea): To start, my vision is not joining an orthodox monastery and joining another pyramid. At the end of the day I want renounce. If you’ve read the story of Om Swami that’s pretty much exactly what I want in the end. I have no interest in joining some religious order. God (or whatever word we want to use) is all I want and I want to go deep and rid myself of everything that I think that I am. I want to be free of these beliefs and want to go to the core of what all of this and permeate me completely. That really is my ultimate goal. I want my impact t on the world to come from that place. I want to raise human consciousness, awaken people yes but I also want to share wisdom, Truth, deep insights, help people with their shit and also help people achieve their highest physical potential as well as their psychological, spiritual, and intellectual potential. Again, a perfect example of this is Shunyamurti and his work at Sat Yoga. However, something like that takes extrodinary leadership, mastery, wisdom, know-how, etc. This is the more difficult path but it’s what I want which is both inspiring, terrifying, totally confusing, etc. The easier thing to do would yeah, just join some monastery and do that whole thing. It’s much easier to be a follower in a sense. However I also have psychological issues (for those that haven’t guessed yet) and spirituality can sometimes make certain psychological issues worse in certain ways. As Basho said, I don’t want to follow the footsteps of the wise masters. I want to seek and attain what they sought and then make that my gift and impact. But again that takes that withdrawal. Which is what’s confusing because it’s like “what do I do until that time? Even then, how is this renunciation even going to take place?” And so on and so forth. I’ve thought about starting a YouTube channel but I know I’m going to renounce anyways. I mean, this part is crystal clear in my mind so it’s like “why would I start something I’m going to abandon anyways?”