kieranperez

Marcus Aurelius is a very healthy embodiment of Blue. Even if you read Meditations you can see how he takes deep nondual understanding of God, nonduality, and Consciousness into a healthy blue perspective (which is all that Spiral Dynamics is mapping). This is not a knock on Marcus Aurelius at all. He is a very good example of strong healthy Blue in a time that was pretty much Red. You can have deep full nondual understanding and still be lower on the spiral. Remember, Orange, Green, Yellow hadn't even emerged yet. These are very new developments in perspective, world view, motives, and values (which is all Spiral Dynamics is tracking). Stoicism itself is a very healthy Blue (kinda Orange) philosophy which really values things such as: Honor Self-restraint Dignity That sense of being the upstanding valiant one Moral & emotional composure Submission of one's self-interest to one's state (country, land, territory, government, etc.) So on and so forth. Marcus Aurelius and his Meditations is a great piece to go back and work on remnants of positive Blue that people might not have fully worked through. I definitely wouldn't put Marcus Aurelius or even maybe people like The Buddha at Turquoise. Nondual understanding of all of reality doesn't really make you Turquoise. Turquoise is world-centric and people take for granted that there were still things such as slavery involved in that time. People completely take that for granted just to put these people on a pedestal. That's not to take away from The Buddha or any sages of that era and to say he was evil or bad. No. That was their time. That was the world view, perspective, etc. and full blown enlightenment doesn't really change that (more often than not). There was no Turquoise at that time because the world wasn't as connected as it is now where our society today is more all encompassing. Thus we have greater perspectives. Full blown enlightenment, understanding, and even embodiment DOESN'T automatically = Turquoise. The manner in which you embody God and the lens in which you view God depends upon one's level and stage in Growing Up, as Ken Wilber put's it. Sure there's correlation between deep non-dual understanding and mastery and Turquoise (or I should say, Turquoise has some apparent correlation to deep non-dual understanding) but as it's even said in science, correlation doesn't = causation.

For Purple I'd add shamans (unfortunately I don't know any specific ones) It takes a real solid Yellow to see the healthy versions and also without judgment. @Leo Gura where would you put Immanuel Kant and Aristotle? Blue or Orange? Here are some off the top of my head I'd throw out... Stage Blue: Marcus Aurelius Socrates The Marathon Monks of Mt. Hiei Abraham Lincoln Confucius Chuang Tzu Stage Orange: Tony Robbins Tripp Kramer (Tripp Advice) Sigmund Freud Sam Harris (he got me into enlightenment with the 26 minute guided meditation so I'll give him a shoutout for that at least) Renate Descartes Simon Sinek Stage Green: Ram Dass Koi Fresco/Vishuddha Das Stage Yellow: Mark Hyman Aldous Huxley Carl Jung (though he was peaking into Turquoise by the end of his life) Obama Stage Turquoise: Shunyamurti

If you take real meditation seriously with an honest intent on waking up to the Absolute, then this expectation is hogwash. If you want to dabble in 10 minutes of feeling good with some guided meditations, okay sure, that can feel pleasurable but only because you're not actually fully investing into meditation as a practice, as a discipline, as an art, as a way to collapse your reality and wake up. This is the same thing I hear all the time as a runner when I people go talking about how running is graceful, meditative, peaceful, blah blah blah. Those people who say that a. aren't that serious or love running enough to run long enough or with enough intent to really get good at it and stretch yourself, b. every art is hard. In fact art is the hardest work you'll ever do. Meditation is no different. Zen monks, yogis, nuns, etc. who go through real no bullshit meditation will scare the average person with the description and the intensity of how hard meditation can be. Again, I'm not saying people need to quit their jobs and livelihood to go through that nor does that mean you can't reach/awaken to say the No-Self all because you don't train like a Zen monk or a yogi or something. However, meditation if taken as a legitimate practice is very hard. I don't care about the 0.0001% that meditation and concentration practice comes easy to because these are exceptions. Look at what The Buddha went through before his enlightenment. Read about the Marathon Monks of Mt. Hiei. That's no joke and there's a reason they go through that. So it depends on one's intent with meditation and it's important you're honest with yourself about what your intent is and has been and also what you want it to be. If it's a 10 minute ritual to center your mind and calm down or practice gratitude or something, that's awesome. Just don't confuse that with real meditation (and I don't want the italics on "real" to be taken as though one is superior to the other. Just see it as the difference between someone who goes for a 2 mile run every morning just to wake up and get the blood moving before the day is started and an actual runner).

Meet the people who've actually done that and see the results of that. The last thing you're going to see and think of them as is unhealthy. People devote their entire lives to pursuing truth. This term "unnatural" is a meaningless label. The quality of your pursuits matter. First off, I was making a bigger point here. Not suggesting that he needs to start meditating 20 hours a day. I was pointing out that the very last concern people need to have is whether they're meditating too much. However if he built up too quick that's a different case.

should've put a caption bubble over Tai Lopez in that picture that says "here in my garage"

This took like a month but I finally finished

There are monks and yogis who meditate 20 hours a day... Doing too much is not a valid concern for most people lol

Okay... that’s good lololol

@rounder going to look back at that what you said there man. I really appreciate and believe it or not that did help.

So instead you're actually suggesting I just work my same job and just be a wage slave the rest of my life and never become free and quit my entire life purpose?... I never said anything about "part-time".

You’re understanding of people is naive, shallow, and immature. You’ll learn one day when you decide to get out of your fantasy that every man is equal and look around and start doing your homework and just use common sense. You’re reading what I’m saying as if I’m dismissing practice and like I’m putting people on a pedestal. My level of mastery as a runner is not going to be equal to that of Hicham El Guerouj who holds the Mile World Record in 3:43.13 and Eliud Kipchoge’s 2:01:39 in the Marathon. The average person is not able to do math and physics on the level of people like Einstein. If you actually think the majority of people on planet earth can do this then that shows how much you still have yet to learn about people. Most people who pursue enlightenment don’t even reach enlightenment and that’s not for lack of trying. Even enlightened people don’t all awaken to equal depth. People like Peter Ralston who is an extraordinary master cannot awaken to things like Divine Love because of the way he’s wired. Dont worry. You’ll wake up one day just takes more maturity and growing up and humbling experiences.

This absolutely deluded, naive and just out not true. Saying he is gifted is acknowledging talent. If you think that everything comes down to hard work and that’s the ONLY thing that makes a difference than you’re kidding yourself. I don’t care how hard I worked at basketball, and I worked my face off, there are kids who are just flat out better than me. Period. End of story. East Africans (Ethiopians, Kenyans, Eritreans, etc) are genetically more gifted than most of the world in middle & long distance running hence why they slay most of the world since they came onto the stage. Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant and are greater gifted freaks of nature both physically and mentally than most NBA players, much less the rest of the globe. Most people who pursue enlightenment hardcore don’t reach levels of the Buddha or great sages despite tremendous work. I’m not making an excuse for people to be lazy and soft but to deny certain exceptional people’s extrodinary talent and gifts in certain areas is just foolish, naive, and delusional. The argument that everybody has the same potential as everybody else is just false, silly, and just downright not true. Everybody is different. I don’t know what enlightened person is telling you that you have 100% control because that’s an assertion that you have free will to begin with. Your notions of people and their potential and talents is just childish

I have no idea where that example of restaurants came from. So... yeah, don’t really know what to say about that as that’s totally unrelated You're reading my post black and white. Where did I say I was planning on starting a business with 0 cost? I said low cost I have no idea what you’re talking about on your third point. You seem to be all over the place

The busier the more you piss your life doing nonsense which is what most people do. Most people piss their life away being busy. Never said anything about social anxiety. The “business” I want to start is going to take maybe more than a decade before I can start this is shorter term. I need to get ahold of my livelihood and get this part of my life handled. I’m still coming up with ideas.

@Winter I’m not “ragging” on Musk. The guy is a very unique and standout and exceptional individual. 99% of people cannot and will not be able to emulate him for a multitude of reasons. He’s who he is for a reason and to think that people can emulate his work ethic to the degree that he does and get results is more often than not setting themselves up for burnout and failure. Musk serves a role and is a developed individual in a lot of ways but yeah when you reach the end of your life and you’ve been a rat chasing the most cheese and you realize you’re still not fulfilled when, in the end, Musk will be forgotten about (just like 99.999999 of highly successful individuals) and all his work will turn to dust and you’re still not happy and realize that none of that cheese chasing never answered who you nor your deepest questions and aren’t fulfilled, you’ll feel it then... if you’re lucky. I’m not saying there’s something wrong with him. He could contribute more though and in a deeper more profound way if he did wake up to the deeper dimensions of life.

@Winter it doesn’t need to be some huge business... Businesses can be small one man shops... you’re saying I need an HR team, other employees, investors and so forth. I’m talking about a smaller low cost business so that I can leverage my time in order to work on other skills and knowledge. I plan on pursuing enlightenment completely down the road as my vision is starting an ashram and so forth. I agree with a lot of your tips however I’m just trying to make clear the kinda business I’m talking about.

You're thinking too naive. There's a reason there's so few of these people like Elon Musk. 99.999999999% CANNOT work that much. That takes a certain person to do that. I don't even mean vision. I mean, it takes a certain 1 in 10000 people to end up being that person that yes has a vision but can even sustain that level of work for more than a week. The exception among the exceptions. If you're that passionate about change and are capable of that and you've had that standout "it" factor for a good part of your life with apparent standout results from others then go for it. Be prepared for the cost. Judging from your other posts you seem lost in life and to be honest this just seems like a phase for you. I don't say to look down on you at all. I get it but just understand that Musk a. isn't happy. That kind of person can never really be truly happy. b. has a workload and work ethic that very few people on planet earth can sustain for even a week without crashing and burning. I get you on the petty relationships but don't turn that into some repressed projection. Yes most relationships are petty but you can create high quality relationships but in order to create high quality relationships you must become a higher quality person in the sense of advancing in your own personal development. Also it takes overcoming limiting beliefs about relationships. Have a vision, set your priorities straight, be crystal clear on your strategic intent, strategize then execute.

@Leo Gura one thing that’s interesting, since I brought up Shunyamurti and his theory of devolution, is that when he’s been asked (like on Buddha at the Gas Pump) to elborate on the time span of humanity’s devolution is tens of thousands of years. I’ve read stuff about when he’s asked about all the slavery in say Buddha’s time, he’d say that that’s not far back enough in time. At that point in my mind I’m like “we don’t even have real solid records of this stuff man. Where are you getting this? We don’t even know if people like Confucius or Christ were historical people in yet we know the detailed psychology of humanity 10,000+ years ago?”

Be a systems thinker

Look at the people who actually candyflip. I’ve seen hundreds of people candyflip at this point. If you’re trying to find a magic cocktail to enlightenment, then by all means knock yourself out. See how that goes. These people who candyflip “just want to explore other ends of the universe,” and are again, just chasing egoic titiliating experience in the name of spirtuality. What are you ACTUALLY looking for? You have 5-MeO-DMT that shoots you straight to God and as far as I’m concerned, deeper into God the more you use it over time. You have other chemicals and substances like LSD, psilocybin, AL-Lad, and some 2c class chemicals and so forth that can enhances Contemplation and even be used for getting in touch with intuition and if you learn enough about them, can use them for psychotherapeutic purposes on yourself. So again, I ask you, what are you really looking for? Is God not enough to please baby ego? You’re simply looking for experience. I’m not saying anything is wrong or bad. I’m saying you’re chasing experience and making something more complex than it has to be just for the sake of making it complex. That’s very different. I don’t really care or have a moral issue with what you do or how people use psychedelics. If you’re at a party and what not and just want to fuck around, go knock yourself out. Candyflipping is (dangerous yet) awesome for that. I have no problem with that. I’ve had hundreds of friends candyflip at raves. Psychedelics don’t need to be used for strictly spiritual purposes. You can use it to have fun and experience radically different states of consciousness. But call it for it is. If you’re chasing experience in the name of seeking Truth, you need someone to call you on your shit.

It's funny to me because I was watching a whole Vice video basically about the people I called my friends in the San Francisco Bay Area Rave Scene but in the context of a nature community in Canada. To me, yeah these people have their problems, but they're definitely more evolved than Orange. This whole video, now knowing things like Spiral Dynamics and having learned more about consciousness work, enlightenment, personal development, and just life in general since having left the Bay Area Rave Scene in the last couple years, really makes me look back with a giggle about how when I started going to these underground raves with these people I resisted these people in the beginning. Granted, this stage does have it's limitations and I think one of the hardest parts about my development of Green was that I would be with all these Green people in this Green environment (going to illegal venues for warehouse parties, camping out through weird obscure map points in the middle of nowhere where you literally needed coordinates to get to the party and then camp out for a weekend, and so forth) and then after dancing my face off from 8PM-8AM (totally sober and clean by the way) I would go back home to my Stage Orange/Blue house (what @Leo Gura accurately calls secular moralism in his Stage Orange video) and my stage Orange interests of pursuing athletics and being all dogmatic over atheism and debating and all that nonsense. The rave scene really is just a party oriented version of this entire community depicted in this Vice video. We all know about the excesses of Green and that was why I had to stop partying with these people because it just became a place where we really couldn't be honest and actually authentic but I do feel that this is a very necessary stage. I think what a lot of Green people don't realize is how much they operate from a place of lack and utter insecurity. This "dose" of Green, as weird and contradicting as it may sound, is empowered from a sense of disempowerment. A lot of these people form these kinds of groups, communes, etc. because they never felt accepted by the society they grew up in which is why this heavy level of Green emphasizes feelings so much. They just want to be heard and be allowed to speak and not be lectured and moralized to and that was actually a very big part I got out of the rave scene. I could vent my frustrations in feelings that I closed in for long and so deeply. Heavy Green can really provide a space where you can let all of this out. If you've ever been to a rave you know what I'm talking about. Being able to let out all you feel onto a dance floor with a dozens, hundreds, or thousands of other people who aren't judging you for the way you express yourself and they actually encourage and embrace you. I was one of those guys who "went hard all night" in the sense that I literally danced with as much emotional expression as I could and people told me all the time (pretty much every event I went to) that they felt me. The problem though with this kinda heavy Green though when it forms communities is that this compassion, mutual acceptance and respect becomes this interesting "unspoken moralism". You can feel that other that a lot of these people do this from a sense of how they're supposed to be compassionate and be accepting of all. You can sense in the inauthenticity which is why real unconditional love isn't able to flourish in these kind of communities becomes all this stuff comes from a sense of lack so you end up acting out all this out rather than it coming from true authentic motives. Also there's a lot of projections and strong shadows in this kind of heavy Green. Nonetheless, Green is superior to Orange and Blue. People at this level if you're at say a party aren't trying to out posture each other like if you go to some Stage Orange party where it just becomes men trying to act out other men and women outdo other women. If you're really head centered and very logic and rationally motivated (or at least believe yourself to be so ) and you live in the United States, I highly suggest you go to a few raves or some burner events or campouts. Exposing yourself to these people will allow them to allow you to finally express yourself in ways you may be too proud yet insecure to admit you're afraid to express. You can't really embrace other humans lovingly without going through Green. For those who don't know what I'm talking about: Stage Green (permitted and legal) Rave - btw that’s me when I was like 17 back in 2012 @ 1:50 LOL (I cringe looking back) Some of you Orange people, prepare to get triggered by Green parties

Chop wood, carry water. After ecstasy, the laundry.

Buuuut LEO! Enlightenment says I’m already the cake!!!

Only people I know who candyflipped were noncomformist escapist ravers when I was part of the Bay Area Underground Rave scene. You’re wasting your time chasing experience. People who candyflip are just looking for a good time seeking egoic experiences in the name of spirituality.