kieranperez

That’s just 1st tier as a whole. That’s not just a function of Green. Blue, Red, Orange, Green. That’s the whole thing that 1st tier doesn’t see - it’s own mayopic point of view. Each stage thinks its the best stage.

Has anyone ever heard of, tried, or have any details on the effects of NMT?

I honestly do something similar to that. The times when my self acceptance gets going is when I naturally end up visualizing me as a little kid and I’m how I am now and I give love that little kid like crazy, and then (this is where it gets hard for me) is when I take the perspective of the little kid and I look at me now and then I give my current self love. The amount of shame I have to be willing to accept and love is a challenge for sure. When you’re so used to being ashamed you are of yourself for how you have nothing to show to yourself because you wanted to be something, you had this vow “I vowed I would NEVER become the very thing I have become. I wasn’t supposed to be this,” (I’m actually kinda tearing and choking up writing this to be honest) that’s the hardest thing in the world sometimes. I tell you man, just getting 10% through that shell rips me open in the best way. It’s hard because as counter intuitive as it is, I don’t want to let my guard down. It’s one thing to know conceptually why I keep my guard up, it’s a totally other matter when you realize how obsessively dedicated you are to keep that shield up, even to your own detriment.

Green is much more nuanced, all-inclusive, and developed than Orange... much less Blue. You’re only viewing Green from its excesses. Yeah, Green has PLENTY of excesses. There will be tons of problems with Green... just like there was with Blue and Orange! Do you realize that if you were to go back in history when say Orange was emerging after the excesses of Blue that the criticism was exactly the same on the meta level? People like Jordan Peterson, Ben Shapiro, etc. that demonize and try lash at Green are just like those part of the mind and body that go off trying to retain homeostasis when you’re creating a new habit or if you’re about to kill the ego! The collective mind resists dying! I challenge you to go to an underground rave or go to a burner festival or just hangout here in the San Francisco Bay Area (granted, SF has gotten extremely gentrified). You tell me what you think then. Blue and Orange aren’t even very much in touch with love with for that matter. Not to bash, but I hope your comment on Trump being more nuanced than Obama (regardless of what the subject matter is) was a joke.

Probably The Book of Not Knowing by Ralston.

@okulele come on man... Goblet of Fire

What book? Biography?

Jesus is not a historical person. Jesus is an archetype. Historical or fictional is irrelevant. Search for what’s really true directly. If you want to know what God is, become conscious of what God is directly. All of “Jesus’s teachings” are just stories and heresay. How do you honestly know if he was right or wrong? You don’t.

That’s a metaphor for you. Before you came into this embodied perspective, aka your self or ego, you were one with God (Nothingness). Then you split from God confusing yourself for this separate character. Confusing the true nature of everything that is nonduality with duality. Of course you’ve been God this whole time. Just unknowingly. Start learning to read in between the lines with these very apt metaphors.

Couple of points I want to make on this, as someone who has been borderline suicidal and has communicated this on the forum... These nondual elitist know it alls exaccerbate this issue with people who are suicidal. As someone whose posted about my incredibly crippling low self esteem, lack of self love, depression, and utter confusion, all the comments that made me feel more isolated and less understood and felt like I got no help at all were these Zen Devil nondual know it alls who just want to play that card and completely lack compassion and empathy. I’ve gotten and see all the time comments such as “this is all your fucking ego,” “nobody is going to help you. Nobody will save you. It’s just you in this universe.” “Your mind has you by the balls.” YOU DONT SAY THAT SHIT TO PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THE HABIT OF BEATING THEMSELVES UP. Those responses come from people who’ve had the great fortune of not actually feeling that kind of pain and level of self torture. Those responses come from people who went from being newbs on this spiritual path, got some little glimpses, and now they think they understand everything and now they’re cocky. If anything I see Leo coming down on those people are trying to communicate to show more empathy and compassion. That’s not to make out all people on this forum like that. When I’m going through a hard time (like I am today) I sometimes get flooded with massages of people reaching out and it’s touching. I’ve made friends on this forum like @Sahil Pandit and @Robby and I hope these people are my friends for life. Leo isn’t here to fix all of us. Yeah, I personally really admire Leo. I wish sometimes I could get that face-face advice and serious from him but guess what? That’s my shit. That’s our shit. That’s our expectation. If you’re concerned about people’s mental health, how bout YOU meet them where they’re at? Show them some compassion and some love and give them some exercises and tips that will them to empower themselves this way they don’t need to cling to anybody? A lot of people on here express their deep depression and suicidal thoughts because they’re looking for someone to save them because they’re at a point where they can’t even intuit an empowering vision for their impact on the world, who they can become, what they want, etc. but they don’t want to die. If they TRULY wanted to die, they would. They become needy because they don’t believe in themselves at all anymore. How can YOU help with that? Rather than just expecting Leo to come in there and be their Superman?

What kinda of collective and societal infrastructure do you think needs to be in place for this to become a possibility? The way I see the problem of waking up the masses, it seems like just a problem of system overload as far as what a leader can really feasibly facilitate. Waking up on your own is hard enough as it is. All the homeostasis and ego building blocks that hold your life together that need to be broken down is already hard as fuck and takes years. The highest level systems thinker and 2nd tier leader couldn’t lead such a process even if they taught from the place of the greater jihad. Hence why the bigger the following the more diluted the teaching has to be. I mean really think about this. Let’s say your a 2nd tier turquoise masterful sage that can do all the psychic stuff in the world, you’re fully awake, you got the big picture nailed down, conceptual mastery, the whole 9 yards... but your task is getting THE MASSES. That includes those guys in the hood who are stage Red, getting evangelical Bible Belt Stage Blue Christians, etc... you think there wouldn’t be the biggest collective homeostatic ego backlash with that?... Assuming you even got their attention to begin with. As far as I’m concerned, that’s something that’s going to take at least several more hundred years of years, potentially thousands.

That’s your problem with your petty selfish expectations. You nondual keyboard warriors who lack compassion, humility, self reflection, and open mindedness act like you know all there is to be known (and you definitely fit this bill in your other posts and replied to other people’s thread so I’m talking about you here to). This is apparent in the way you guys answer questions. Personally I’m glad a lot of these threads and comments get shut down from time to time. If I was a world class track coach and I ran my own team and I had athletes who I’ve been trying to coach through a multitude of ways and they don’t listen and act after reading a few books on training theory and now they act like know it alls (and make no mistake what you and a lot of people on here, including myself plenty of times) I would have to be hard with them and if they keep it up, guess what? They’re off the team. They would end up wasting my time, their time, and everyone else’s time. Your complaining and expectations of what Leo and all other nondual and personal development teachers should and shouldn’t do has everything to do with you.

@Leo Gura was about to make a post about the utilization of 5-MeO-DMT under a hardcore spiritual practice/regimen/system. As far as I'm interpreting, before one were to even do 5-MeO-DMT in the way you're describing, one should already have a strong enough big picture foundation yes and spiritual practice already up and going but also a very strong foundation of self-esteem to really carry themselves through such a process? I feel like that would be obvious stuff but can't hurt to confirm. Do you think cases like Martin Ball who achieve liberation (under the assumption that he is truly and fully liberated) using 5-MeO-DMT are still rare cases and would still be rare cases if people were to use 5-MeO-DMT under his way of using it (smoking/vaporizing it and then stay embodying the energy through bi-lateral symmetry AKA "fractal energy yoga"... whoever came up with that title by the way needs to go into marketing) or yours? I've spent time really strategizing in the coming years towards when I fully go into spirituality and have put a lot of thought into the possibilities of how 5-MeO-DMT would work in conjunction with a hardcore yoga, concentration meditation, and contemplation practice and what not. As far as what you seem to report, you still come back down and it's not lasting as far as the abidance of the realization itself. Obviously that doesn't diminish, reduce, or debunk the realizations that I imagine come with such a substance and of course you do get personal growth from doing multiple rounds of 5-MeO-DMT over the course multiple days but... does it really leave something lasting that doesn't turn into more conceptual ideas several weeks and months after you stop doing it? Not to suggest that 5-MeO-DMT would someone's only tool for their spiritual practice towards full liberation and full depth of awakening. Then again though... if brings you back to baseline, aren't you just back to square one where you started with just needing to grind through tens and tens of thousands of hours of concentrative meditation in order to abide in pure liberation anyways? You've said in the past that 5-MeO-DMT is just so much more ridiculously potent and effective that it takes you orders of magnitude deeper than these more traditional practices would ever take the average person. I'm trying to really listen the emphasis on the quality and magnitude of depth there is but if 5-MeO-DMT can't for sure sustain though through proper use (since you do come back down) + spiritual practices, does it really even effect the average person's chances of true full liberation and mastery of this domain?

You don’t know. Start there. You yourself, start there. Investigate. Find out. No answer I can give you helps. Direct.Experience.

It’s so tricky and really funny how that works.

@DecemberFlower honestly I’ve found that the more I really embrace not knowing the more grounded and in touch I am with myself because not knowing is already the case. Not knowing is kinda like an ego death in the sense that we’re often so afraid and struggle to let go of our points of view because of how much we cling to them but the moment you get free the more free you are. It’s like an overweight person finally dropping 100 pounds from 260-160. I imagine for someone like that it’s this sense of ‘look at how much more I can do now that I’m rid of all that?!’ To really get and create to anything new, deep, and profound, not knowing needs to be recognized. This is exciting because now you have enough consciousness and groundedness to see the possibility of something new that you’ve (and depending on your ambition, something no one else has) never done before. One of the ways I practice deconstructing my own positions, beliefs, assumptions and having my awareness of them is questioning the people I follow and also the people I criticize simultaneously. For example, I’ve fallen so many times without recognition blindly believing @Leo Gura because I get certainty from him because I really resonate with the personality, style of charisma, the background he’s given on his life that matches similar to myself, and a lot more. I was going down this point where I’d disagree and shun anyone he’s disagreed with on video without actually looking for myself. To go further, if I say watched Jordan Peterson, I’d see him in “the light of my assumption and prejudice”. So if Jordan Peterson would say something in a certain video (let’s say he’s bashing postmodernism and “snowflake culture”) that disagreed with a point Leo made in one video, I would start to contemplate such that I get to the point where I recognize that all I did was make a bunch of assumptions. NOT “oh Leo is wrong” or “JP is full of shit” but that I don’t know. NOW the inquiry and investigation can begin. I find not knowing incredibly empowering. As far confusion with one’s life and life purpose, I know exactly about that because for me I’ve always been (I find significantly more than other people) extremely impressionable. So I’ll look for role models but than I get stuck fantasizing about role models and possible routes without being in touch with me. If you’ve taken the LP course and you have your values and your strengths and you feel solid on them but you still feel stuck on your impact and your ZoG, try just doing to the reprogramming the subconscious mind exercises on those and see what comes up. Follow your values and strengths (whichever resonate more with you) and see what happens.

I’m considering saving up money I’m going to earn this summer for one of Ralston’s retreats (preferably the upcoming Fall one). I know some of you on here have gone to his retreats (some of you I’ve met... shoutout to my man @Juan Cruz Giusto). My main question I have is, as funny as it is, does Ralston go in deep with questions? I mean, in the end, he does play coy with a lot of the questions he gets and in the answers he gives. To me, I think this is for good reason, as frustrating as it can probably be. When I listen to Ralston on YouTube it blows my mind because it’s like ‘I can do that?!’ I really slow down to try to comprehend what it is he’s communicating and it blows my mind because there’s so much fucking depth that I feel like the average attended of these retreats or reader just overlooks so easily because he’s so clear. In yet, when I listen to the questions he gets on say his YouTube videos, nobody really seems mindblown or is asking anything really deep? How does Ralston help facilitate and asnswer questions? As an example: one of the things I think is missed in his work that I want more clarification on how to do is how he contemplates “outside” the domain of pure consciousness work. So how he used “Zen contemplation” as he puts it with say contemplating domains of running, or the body, or evil, etc. and then do something with that to create something. I’ve emailed him in the past (and I suggest you guys do to... the fact that you can email this man and he responds in a couple hours blows my mind) but I don’t want to be some pest lol otherwise I’d be emailing him every single day LOL

If you’ve never met her, you don’t know. Someone can be loving 22 hours of the day and still be a raging moron another 2 hours. You’re telling me that 2 hours of being a raging moron shouldn’t be addressed? I can be a smart contributor of this forum 99% of the time but can still have a post where I act like an arrogant know-it-all. That behavior of being an arrogant know-it-all in that post is what’s being addressed. Theres a lot of non-dual keyboard warriors that are totally full of it on here (not saying this person is nor do I care nor does it matter) that dilute a lot of posts and actually lack total compassion because they’re dedicated to their non dual elitist talk and defending this front they have of being some awakened blah blah blah. This needs to be addressed more actually.

There’s nothing weak about calling someone out for their behavior. Belittle the behavior. Not the person.

I know where you’re coming from but this is a false analaysis. A newb meditator talking to a Zen master about how much he knows and what not is in no place to talk shit. That master has every right to look that newb dead in the eyes and shut him up. If you’re being coach by Phil Jackson in basketball and you’re a decent adequate basketball player, yeah you have the right to learn, ask questions as far as your learning goes, but you’re not in a position of authority to espouse stuff. There are certainly problems with having authority but there’s certainly a place for someone who knows what they’re talking about to shut people who are talking out of their ass.

@mandyjw god your full of shit and all talk

I've really thought about this a lot when it comes to contemplating my Life Purpose and boy is this something that's going to be messy. Now that we're in a world that DEMANDS and integral approach to spirituality, psychology, philosophy, human transformation, science, politics, and planetary restoration and also now that 5-MeO-DMT and other psychedelics is becoming slowly but surely more talked about... I really can't help but contemplate how an integral spiritual infrastructure could really be built, particularly in Western, 1st world, secular countries. What excites me is that all the tools seem to be there. Granted, legality of psychedelics of course is still a big issue. However, as far as I'm concerned, I think even that obstacle could still be worked around. The practices are all out there, the psychedelics that help most for consciousness work are out there as far as what are the one's to use (again, acquisition of such substances is another matter right now). When I look at popular sages and spiritual leaders like Sadhguru (I'm going to use him & India as my example in this post because he's just such a good, yet rare, example) I see someone and something truly extraordinary. I see someone who clearly is a masterful 2nd tier systems thinker. He's able to influence and talk to an enlightened yogi whose been in a cave for 15 years (Blue/Purple), economic and political titans (Orange), rational left brained scientists (Orange/Yellow), rural masses (Blue), kids as far down as elementary school, urbanites in their 20s pursuing sex/materialism (Orange), and attract the liberal hippies from afar (Green). You can even see in his talks and discourses he talks to all of them differently. He's even able to lead his sannyasis and he's actually very integral and 2nd tier in his approach by creating a system within his ashram where he can bring in both men and women and have an environment that seems to unite them all and even lead conscious restoration projects. It's fucking incredible that one man can lead all that in yet still have 1 month out of the year to spend in the Himalayas each year (read that in his biography). At the same time though (not even getting into his good fortune of his full enlightenment at the age of 25 - past 3 lifetime of work... as far as I'm concerned I don't see why this can't be the case), look at how fucking rare a person like that is. Someone who can withstand that workload, has that strong interpersonal and 2nd tier leadership skills, is as masterful and downright talented he is in the domain of spirituality as he is (beyond his depth of psychic proficiency and so much more, which as far as my research goes, is fucking off the charts if it really is true), not having gotten power hungry, the degree to which he succeeded in terms of impact on the world, etc. Also consider that he's in a country that has over 5000 years of spiritual infrastructure/foundation! There's a spiritual science there for building fuckin' temples at how to utilize them as energy centers for human beings (Agamas Shastras). I personally agree with @Leo Gura (which I think he hammers home on better than even than Ken Wilber) on the point that spirituality and really, the world at large, must go integral and evolve and include and embrace technologies such as psychedelics and specifically 5-Meo-DMT, EEG technology, what's to come with AI, etc. and also embrace other personal development schools, schools of psychology, science, art, philosophical schools, etc. which A LOT of these teachers reject because their whole impact is based around creating a particular niche school which excludes other things! Can you imagine going into a Zen monastery in Japan and trying to convince a Zen master whose been in a certain school that 5-Meo-DMT can get you to realize Nothingness in 30 min or less and that it's a much faster and more efficient tool than grinding for decades (which is not to dismiss work ethic or portray 5-MeO-DMT as some quick fix) that, for most people who down that path, produces a semi deep awakening at best? He'd keisaku your ass out of there. Hell, I would imagine even Sadhguru would dismiss it as a perfectly legitimate path. Even Ralston, a deeply enlightened master here in the West that seems to have no real attachment any spiritual system or spiritual culture and grew up a lot here in the San Francisco where I live dismisses psychedelics! What happens when the human guru is replaced with a syringe and powder made in a chemistry lab? How likely is that guru to either accept that or end up abusing that? Not to mention, the more integral you get, the more you'll have to realize that each person is of course different in their unique set of problems, their strengths and talents, emotional blockages, personality types, interests, etc. which of course undermines a set and stone system/school/tradition because the whole point of tradition/school/system is that it's different from all the others, even just from a business standpoint. Not to mention, the larger the school and the more people you draw in, the more you'll have to dilute your teachings, practices, and the Greater Jihad to fit the masses. Granted, going back to Sadhguru, I think he's being smart by having his ashram where he leads sanyasins where he goes balls to the wall with them so that when he dies, he's planted seeds that will live on after him. Even with that though, look at how much corruption, dilution, shenanigans, and the collapse in the quality of the school after the main leader passes on. What happens when Sadhguru's vision just becomes some ideological moral objective for his followers in 100 years that blindly follow that rather than think for themselves? What happens when you're school falls behind in it's spiral stage and grows out of date and becomes obsolete and eventually becomes regressive relative to where the rest of the world is? This is not even mentioning the work that comes with transcending cultural paradigms. Lastly, how on earth does a spiritual infrastructure get built in a country like say in the USA where our culture is not one of Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, but one of consumerism? We (I live in the USA so this is just an easier way for me to frame this) live in a country that as far as my (subpar) analysis and assessment goes seems to just be emulating the same pattern that lead to the fall of Ancient Greece. On the global macro scale, the USA is a baby country as far as it's age goes. If I were to equate this with a business example, we seem to be like just one giant MLM that's been parasitic on not just the earth but to other world cultures and countries. It's like a business who just aims for profits for the short and mid-term at all costs and get's wealthy in the beginning and stays there for awhile because its Orange, it's strategic enough to stay on top. In the end though the business falls apart because it wasn't based on those timeless principles longer lasting principles that undermine short-term growth. Not to mention, we don't even recognize our culture that much because consumerism is much harder to see relative to a lot of other world cultures. For better and worse, we have such a massive influence on the rest of the world. People in other countries (particularly in the 3rd world of course) still idolize America and wish to come over here for opportunity and a chance for them as an individual to thrive at Stage Orange and make something of themselves. We infect the world with our ideology and image of consumerism and Stage Orang mindset. Taking a step though, there are A LOT of pluses with that. So I'm not saying this to just bash Orange and the USA. Orange is multiplistic. It helped science and a lot of other fields and industries to really unfold which a lot of these countries really desperately need. It brought opportunity and set the stage for individuals to revolutionize and rebel against the excesses that came with Blue. At the same time though, we seem to be in a place without a strong nor up to date spiritual/metaphysical foundation/infrastructure which I think is really one of our primary achilles heels when it comes to the survival of this country and also the world since the United States is such an influential powerhouse. What happens to a family when the only breadwinner is dad and mom is a housewife and the kids follows dad no matter what because of the power disparity he has and dad is also a raging alcoholic that beats his wife and kids and gets away with it because he's the most powerful one in the house but eventually becomes so neurotic and dysfunctional because of his of his dysfunctional ego that he ends up in jail or dies in a drunk driving accident? Or if mom eventually decides to fight back and comes at him with a baseball bat? Is that really going to make the family any better? Or will that lead to the collapse of the family entirely? I don't know...

You said nothing at all about psychedelics so idk how on earth you can expect me to know you were referring to psychedelics. as far as your first senetence... yeah I don’t know what you’re saying. Get off this post if you’re not going to contribute and just be a little keyboard warrior. Theres a lot of nuance to what was posted.

You’re not specific as to what you’re talking about. If you’re going to tell me I’m full of shit have the cohesiveness do so. I have no problem being wrong. Learn how to make a point and be clear

@purerogue I have no idea what you’re referring to at all.