kieranperez

I will do my best to refrain from ranting but funny enough, my own desire to want to rant has me question “wait... have I become conscious of what consciousness is? Who am I to rant? Do I really know? Or do I just have my picked up knowledge?”

Or you can recognize and be open to the truth that you don’t know regardless and you’ll be much more present and open to what’s occurring now, regardless of what you’ve heard. Especially since most people inevitably end up seeking the finger rather than what it’s pointing to since all know of in this case is the finger. Go with whatever metaphor you want. There’s a reason Zen (Andre’s tradition) gives so little pointers. A very wise reason at that. Conceptual learning is important for some only until they get sick of concepts and theories as none of them satisfy anything. Then you toss them. Get your fix then throw them away. You can read about an infinite number of different pointing. It will never show you what it’s pointing to. Only you and you alone can see.

That’s still are hearsay you don’t know whose right till you yourself know what consciousness is. Any linguistic is still just hearsay and does really nothing as far actual direct knowing.

Sam Harris is a left brained Ben Stillar. I don’t know about that lol You can’t really blame or pin it on intellectuals corn not knowing this nor being open. It’s all they know and they are merely a byproduct of the system. Being nit picky of them is what’s rather silly in the end. I’d bet most people on either on the spectrum, ideal nor material have ever actually had the realization of what consciousness is.

When you say state of gnosis, what do you mean? Samadhi? Is that in any of the 2 books you recommended? How can I learn? What resources would you recommend for that outside of those 2 books? I find myself falling into high energy states every time I finally relax before going to bed when I drop into Samadhi. My hands feel a whole surge of energy. Usually just end up unintentionally astral projecting or going into Samadhi or experience witnessing in deep sleeps

@Matt8800 what is the role of mudras when it comes to invoking energy? Particularly in relation to deities and spirit guides? I’ve been curious about this for awhile.

How do you know whether you’re a mystic or a psychic? What is the difference between the two?

@Matt8800 is this spiri my guide something you see visually?

So occult is a basically, as you see it and based on your own practice, a more direct way to raise prank/chi/energy and then manipulate it to be more effective it is whatever it is you wish to do or manifest in the world? As opposed to pure meditative yoga (I imagine they’re complimentary rather than separate)? As far as the highest siddhis such as levitation, manifestation, the whole walking on water deal (I know people who have met such yogis and tantrums who’ve done at least 2 of those), do you think that’s still in the same ball park in terms of the kind of occult/siddhis you’re talking about? As I noticed you made distinctions between types of occultists. Same goes for you know, 3rd eye capabilities. Also... as far as smaller siddhis and occult abilities like manifesting spirit guides... what use it? I don’t mean that in a cynical but rather a curious one. What does that do in terms of how it helps you? How does that help you in everyday life? What does that stuff do for you practice. If you manifest a spirit guide, how do they help you? Do you set an intention for what they are to help you with?

@Matt8800 can you explain what you mean precisely when you say “power”?

It’s interesting how much you project your own self resentment onto others in your arrogant closed minded ways. Theres is an incredulous amount of documented data for the paranormal. I had a coworker was insanely clairvoyant and doesn’t even meditate or anything. If you wanna deny the documented scientific data go ahead, but that has everything to do with you and not with the data.

@Matt8800 Have you thought about going to visit the Tantrics in India? What are your thoughts on reports from books like those of Carlos Castaneda and also of theories of siddhis from those of Ancient Egypt? @Leo Gura there are even stories of Sadhguru in his prior past life of using an occult practice where he had a kid walk on water. As said in his biography. Thought it was worth noting. Even Om Swami is said to have these siddhis and powers and much more. Such as healing, levitating, etc. I definitely noticing a correlation between many yogic saints and mystics in the past in present who always seem to levitate in high states of samadhi where they have deep feelings of love and bliss. Just an observation. I also know Shunyamurti is actually having an upcoming retreat all around White Magic and siddhis.

Leo can’t just all of a sudden do that. That’s not how it works. The real problem in people’s epistemic openness is really a unconscious prejudice that needs to be dealt with regarding shadows (or the unconscious mind or whatever else you wanna call it). That requires actual training in helping people and facilitation. You don’t just love your prejudices away and often that can’t just make your shadow (or split/sub personality) that much more dominant. This is where @winterknight is right. You have to actually learn that specific discipline or add/invent new ways through new distinctions on top of the old. There are people like that. Also I want to add this... EVERYBODY has trauma. EVERYBODY has a shadow. You do. I do. Leo does. Everybody does. You don’t ever not have a shadow. Hell, you can even see here all the time (as much as I would love to name key names I won’t). Everybody points out each other’s projections and blind spots and nothing gets done. Why? Because they’re blind to them! You can’t fix what you can’t see. Much less don’t want to see. People will say silly things like “be mindful of your projections” lol as though thats what gets it done. Glimpses of Truth and just higher meditative states are shown to actually make unconscious repressions suppressions worse. Not better. Not more integrate. This is not even talking about the trauma we all have which is what makes the discipline of inquiry and meditation and yoga so damn hard.

As someone whose met a fair amount of “very enlightened people” (whatever that means), some who have extensive history with serious deliberate psychedelic history and has actually met and hung out with @winterknight, and as someone whose had glimpses (or “experiences”) and also has had what some seem to find profound states on psychedelics,my feedback might be useful. First I want to pose the following point that seems to be overlooked here... There seems to be an assumption on many people’s mind that a lot of genuinely enlightened teachers and masters haven’t “gone all the way” (again, notice the underlying assumption there) because they haven’t done 5-MeO-DMT or other powerful substances. What I find interesting here though is that here you actually DO have a genuinely enlightened person, and Winterknight is enlightened, I’ll tell you that right now (of course even that is false), who has had done 5-MeO and used psychedelics on his path and his downright telling you that it ain’t it. In yet a lot of you on here react as though he doesn’t know what he’s talking about (as though the majority of you do - maybe all, I don’t know, wouldn’t be surprised). I find that very interesting. As far as my own irrelevant glimpses, Emptiness, Godhead, Presence, Silence, etc. is the same independent of states. The illusion of “I” be having a different relative experience that may be that of expansion to seemingly every thing, but the I believes it’s experience still doesn’t exist however big or small the experience is. If there is an identification of an “I”, that ain’t it. That doesn’t mean there’s something wrong with the experience, it just isn’t grounded in Truth... in yet it is. Neither is nor isn’t. I also wanted to comment on this critique people are making on psychotherapy and analysis here which I find rather ironic. I even remember asking Winterknight when I met him. Analysis is and strong psychotherapy is about dealing with self deception. Why is an illusory other (as though the “I” is any less illusory) often very much necessary? Why does Winterknight push analysis? Emotional purification. Emotional purification is a silent mind. Unless you have the grace of not a lot of unconscious trauma that doesn’t need therapy and understand your own self deception - and as far as I’m concerned, I’ve never met anyone who doesn’t need therapy really to look into their own assumptions and shadows - you, this “I” cannot go deep enough to really truly work on its own self deception or unconscious. Why? The eye doesn’t see itself. Or I should say, the “I” doesn’t see itself. Even if it’s a very “evolved” and inclusive “I”. There’s a reason people like Ken Wilber stress shadow work and how you CAN’T do shadow work on your own. Meditation is often extremely hard and often not even doable for certain people because they have so much unconscious needs that haven’t been met, traumas, etc. You don’t just go up Maslows hierarchy through external actions. I can attest to every time I’ve had a glimpse into the truth (and of course that’s false but pardon the limits of lanaguage) is always after an emotional release and my mind is finally quiet and I can go into deep Samadhi and realize that which is always ever present. Concentration is hard because you have a very agitated mind whose unconscious is not fully purified, or integrated, or whatever other fancy silly word we want to use. I think Winterknight recommending analysis is actually good for this forum because the amount of shadows and projections I see from people and even myself is just ridiculous in how NO ONE is saying that you’re not going to the root of your own self deception and projections purely on your own. There is no one actually teaching anyone on shadow work nor is there any vehicle for doing it. I can even see this on many people on here (which I had to notice in myself in order to stop) that many of you clearly don’t know what you’re talking about at all as it’s clear you just unconsciously imprint off Leo. It’s in your language and how you talk. You parrot what he says. Hopefully this raises some awareness and is useful.

Jun Po Kelly Roshi has such a crazy and inspiring story. As someone who was very serious in his usage in psychedelics for purposes of enlightenment/self-realization to yogi to a Rinzai Zen master who adapted ethnocentric Rinzai Zen to something more modern that includes powerful shadow work and the founder of Mondo Zen. He survived Stage 4 Throat Cancer and now has Parkinson’s and got into seeking from enormous amounts of suffering. He even spent time in federal prison and is now a true Zen master of the highest ranks. Enjoy this podcast

Not trying to be some other silly self help author. Yes, okay, and what did you do? What did it evoke in you thats going to have you actually change? Or is it just something cool you’ve read? Yes it can document stuff but so what? By that viewpoint we would look at modern academic professors who do nothing but document shit to an incestuous degree that doesn’t really contribute much not to any real significant change in our society or makes things happen. And even then, I write knowledge or whatever we wish to call it that I put my ass on the line to learn (only using this as an example) and then people read it and then they just blindly believe and deludes them just like we see a lot of people even here on the forum. They listen to Leo and then they just act like parrots. No more intelligent than they began but just have a different set of ideas and really just fantasies than what they had prior.

First off, and this is the most important, no one needs to explain anything to you. Your job is to be a seeker of truth. Not a seeker of explanations, theories, concepts, ideas, nor even states. You don’t get what’s being put down because you’re only thinking about this stuff. Theorizing, thinking, ideas, concepts, explanations, etc. in short is just bullshitting around. No one needs to give you anything. You’re trying to get this through lanaguage and all lanaguage is false. Second off, No-Mind is just a label that’s used to point out when person comes out of ignorance and realizes directly there is no mind and never was a mind. It’s a recognition of what’s true and already so. The truth of No-Mind is not a state. There is no mind and there is no reality and there is no world. In yet that’s not different from mind, reality, and world. Third, infinity is not something you understand in some conventional sense like understanding gravity. They are all concepts for you because how you treat them and all you’re basing any of this nonsense on, CONCEPTS. Not putting your ass personally on the line to realize now the truth of you or consciousness or whatever you wanna call it. It doesn’t matter what you call it. Infinity is not something that exists in yet it’s not different from that which seems to exist. Stop talking about this. Stop theorizing. Stop debating. Stop thinking about this. Do the actual work. Silence the mind and realize NOW.

@peanutspathtotruth @winterknight Does a great job clearing this up. I’m not saying you can’t clear ANYTHING up but this notion that you and you alone will get the deepest work done as far as self deception and psychological purification and integration of one’s shadow (or unconscious - basically the same thing), I’ve found (and MANY others - also from the proven track record of failures of those who try to just do it alone) that you’re just not going to. You can get the same answer from Ken Wilber as I have tell you that. Im not saying abandon doing solo work but just understand that that’s pretty surface level stuff. This is why gurus and masters help. They point out what you’re blind to. Doing it PURELY alone (note: at some point you will have to go it alone because you and you alone are the only one that can get enlightened) often just makes something needlessly harder. Granted: I’M VERY WARY OF AUTHORITY. However, the inability to trust others is nothing other than neurosis and an unconscious projection. If I come off as brash its only to get a point across. Hope this works out well

Mind and reality are the same thing, yet is infinite but neither exist. Nothingness, Absolute Truth, The Self, Godhead, Emptiness, etc. is infinite. Leo is not the only one saying this. Every esoteric tradition and enlightened person says the same thing. Maybe slightly different language but it’s essence is the same. This is no something Leo is just telling you.

Tak to @winterknight on as far as very afforadable options. He connected me to a Psychoanalytic institute that has a referral program that can be extremely cheap and affordable. Shadow work is not something you do on your own simply because the shadow is by definition the self that you can’t see. Remember, the eye can’t look at itself. Don’t make it harder than it has to be. Emotional purification and shadow work is bringing awareness to your own self deception. Doing it on your own is like you trying to look at your face but the closest you can get is your nose. Get a good psychoanalyst and or a trained practitioner in Reichian therapy or someone whose trained in some form of shadow work. A silent mind is one that is emotionally purified or is purifying. All my glimpses of Truth always come after a major emotional release and my mind is finally silent. A silent mind is a concentrated mind. Trying to concentrate in meditation without emotional purification is, as far as my experience, a waste of time. Those who can meditate deeply do so because their mind is finally silent and quiet because theres no unconscious trauma or split personalities in the background projecting its needs onto the world to fulfill needs that weren’t met earlier in life. Have you noticed that monks, Zen masters, yogis, and other stages and mystics who got enlightened weren’t fighting with themselves? Have you noticed that? It may have been hard but the majority of their effort is in realizing the matter itself. Why? Silent mind. There’s little to no internal conflict (for the most part - don’t confuse emotional purification with no shadow. There will always be shadows. Shadow work doesn’t ever end. You don’t ever not have a shadow). Meditation hundreds of years ago worked because the ego was a lot more simple. It was nowhere near as complex as it is now. Hope this adds clarity

Follow up with heavy psychotherapy and shadow work. NOTE: You CANNOT do that on your own.

How many rolls Royce’s will it take?

@Vagos as someone who got off 6 different psych meds all at once - DONT DO THAT! I seriously got lucky and don’t know how that time around I had no withdrawal - I really do commend your plan. Honestly similar to me. Granted, it’s only been 4 months so I imagine you haven’t built any sort of long term tolerance. Get off them while you can and in whatever way works best for you. I was on 17 years of Adderall and also a whole lot of different SSRIs, mood stabilizers, and even some tranquilizers. Speaking from experience, side effects and downsides of these drugs tend to happen through long term prescription. In the beginning, it can honestly be scary how well certain psych meds work. You think your life is transformed from here on out. It’s kinda like how one feels when having a very cosmic nondual seeming experience (I use “experience” deliberately). You could never fathom how you could possibly fall back. The problem is when time passes by. You will (likely) fall back into old tendencies but now you will have a physiological addiction that can be very hard to not only break but recover from. Honesty, since getting off Adderall, my body, energy levels, cognition, is not the same at all. It’s kinda like a woman after pregnancy. Once she liked sushi. Now she barfs at the smell of it. As far as enlightenment goes, I will tell you, as Ive had glimpses of truth (or as you term it - enlightement experiences) happen to me while on 6 different meds at the same time while even being a total state of utter depression. Granted, once I let go I wasn’t upset (not that I had any context for what I realized) but understand, enlightenment is true and you are actually aware of it in a certain sense right now already. Be careful with how you interpret this but in certain senseX and maybe this is just me, I’ve found mental health issues drive me further and further into disidentification because you are in sense disassociating with everthing that’s arising and is seemingly being experienced including the very sense of being a self or a perceived or a witness or an ego. Enlightenment is true regardless of the condition or state of experience. Nothingness doesn’t change.

Sorry, I wasn’t specific enough on my end. If i were to ask a question like “what are the best products, courses, and resources for learning the how behind programming one’s subconscious mind” would you contribute? And yes, I chose that example deliberately

Examine that. What is the assumption there? That there’s something to happen? Do you imagine there’s something to happen? Do you believe enlightenment happens? After all, a happening suggest a beginning and an end and enlightenment is said to be truth that has never had a beginning nor an end. So what does that leave you with? Where does that leave you? Further, that would also suggest that enlightenment is right now irrespective of what is occurring or is even being experienced.