kieranperez

I don't. I'm merely citing him as one of many sources I've come across that attest to their experience of Adi Da. He certainly is a credible one. I certainly doubt much of what Peter says. His remarks for example that people can't go a little nuts from a powerful satori or even kensho and dismisses it as just the mind, even though that's technically true, I find that palatable and really out of integrity says he's even claimed going nuts after powerful enlightenment experiences. I've also heard his frivolous relationship with students that I would deem unethical, but that's something I'd rather mention over a PM. I'm certainly no "Ralstonian acolyte". Again, I wouldn't say we disagree. What you refer to as consciousness, which includes all states and levels and so forth, I refer to as simply mind. On that end, I'm certainly not going to claim any sort of equivalence with one of the most powerful realizers of the 20th century. The very thought of that is laughable I must admit. I certainly would never walk around and claim enlightenment. I've never claimed. I don't like talk about what I've "experienced" as far as enlightenment goes because it just doesn't feel right speaking in that way. All the different trips I've done and states though, however healing, powerful, and everything else were not nor cannot be enlightenment. Adi Da had all that power that I would attribute as an experiential by product (whether it was correlative or causal is a debatable point philosophically but a byproduct no doubt) of his enlightenment and the depth of realization. That said, all depth and so forth is relative. I don't see that as poo pooing anything, it's just a matter of honesty. It just depends what end of the street we're talking about. From POV, enlightenment doesn't cause anything. From another POV, on the experiential aspect, you're damn right it causes or allows certain stuff to really blow open. That said, there are plenty of people that are out there that I would say have a very powerful energy that I see no closer to realization than anybody else (from a certain POV).

After enlightenment, get mad puss.

I don’t dispute there are degrees to which we can say the mind surrenders and the self contraction that applies to the individual body mind. My hard line is not to confuse that with enlightenment itself. There’s degrees to which ones conditioning can fall away, powers of transmission and so forth can really come alive, and so forth. I have never denied that. What rejected is the claim that that in and itself is enlightenment. That is all relative and has its place on the path which may or may not by products that are all functions of mind. Ralston has never denied that nor have I. Also, what you quoted was actually something I was saying Ralston actually said about him as Ralston actually sat with him.

LOL okay dude. You want to believe your little non dual cosmology? Go right ahead. It just naive silliness and new age non dual foolish dogmatism.

This is just flat out false. Some of the most renown realizers throughout human history have taken lives. You clearly don't know your history at all when it comes to spirituality. This is just a reflection of your own false presuppositions when it comes to this. Muhammad killed plenty of people Sun Tzu killed plenty of people Osho started an incredibly corrupt and abusive cult Chogyam Trungpa was an alcoholic and abused many of his students Alan Watts was an alcoholic Nisargadatta was chain smoker Many of the great Zen masters of the 20th century were major supporters of imperialist Japan during WW2 Sasaki Roshi was involved in numerous scandals Muktananda was involved in numerous sex scandals The 16th Karmapa was involved in numerous scandals Even Nazis soliders (yes... NAZIS) during WW2 era were into yoga in the 30s and 40s were to have undergone many powerful mystical experiences. This includes members of muslim terrorist organizations like ISIS and what not. I can keep this list going and it could be A LOT longer. These silly ideas people have enlightened people fitting our fantasies are worth shattering. Human nature is complex, regardless of how enlightened one is (that claim that there even is such a thing as an enlightened person is already a debatable point). "Ego" has many different meanings. First off, ego is just a latin word for "I", fundamentally. Ego is also a reference the psychological structure and make up. Which includes stages of development and so forth. One's personality if you will. NO ENLIGHTENED BEING (if we're going to say there is one) IS FREE OF EGO. THE EGO WILL REMAIN UNTIL THE DEATH OF THE BODY. So let's make that very clear. One's personality will remain. The fact, the higher one's stage of development is and the greater the clarity the bigger the ego. The more inclusive and all embracing one's ego actually is. The ego is a process, not an entity. That process is a product of an evolutionary unfolding.

LOL now that's funny. Adi Da is what we might call a full spectrum realizer. Ralston even has said that he's the most powerful enlightened guy he's ever encountered having sat with him in the late 80s. Ken Wilber knew Adi Da and addressed him as the Sat Guru. That said, he did start a full on cult that had major sexual abuses and scandals within his community, similar to that of Chogyam Trungpa. This had mixed results because his students also had tremendous clarity while also being subject to all sorts of sexual and financial abuse. He's a mixed bag. People that have sat with Adi Da and have said sitting with him was more powerful than any insanely high dose psychedelic they've ever done. He primarily taught through transmission. Many of his followers, particularly while he was alive, had a tremendous amount of clarity.

The Jed McKenna of dating ?

This guy is just a cult leader that has had a genuine hit of awakening. Be careful what teachers you follow.

I’m not really into this sort of gimmicky postmodern adaptation to Jungian thinking is it gets, as I just put it, a little too gimmicky. The fact is, you cannot do “shadow work” on your own. Shadows are created in relationship. They must be healed in relationship. You don’t ever not have a shadow. Anyone who tells you they don’t have a shadow or unconscious dynamics going on anymore is straight up fooling themselves. There are different ways of thinking of what the unconscious is. It also would be useful to challenge the very distinction of the unconscious itself. If you want to do “shadow work” go to a psychoanalyst. Shadow work doesn’t at all necessarily heal traumas in the body that may drive the energy of many of our shadows (which, it would useful to make clear that that is just a way of thinking). Trauma work doesn’t at all necessarily heal shadows and shadows don’t at all necessarily heal trauma or attachment issues. You’re going to save years of delusion of trying to do this work you simply cannot do on your own if you just go to an analyst. I mention psychoanalysts because the very notion of “shadows” and the notion of the unconscious came out of psychoanalysis. It is so incredibly sophisticated and it is nowhere near as mechanical as the new age spiritual and personal development communities make it out to be. Shadows, to be succinct, are “the me that I can’t see”. If you say you can see your shadow, it’s not a shadow. Period. The unconscious truly is unconscious. Whatever might be made a distinct object that we might say “arose out of the unconscious” (which is a debatable claim) in engaging in such a process is no longer. It has now be identified and “made conscious”. Which, to put it another way, we could say the mind now has created a form of knowing about something that was not previously there. Also, all projections, whether coming from you or be coming toward you from another, have a hook to stand on. I’ll give a personal example of me on this forum. There’s a lot of projection on this forum. Which I’m sure anyone whose been on here long enough can vouch for. This is understandable because it is an incredibly indirect form of communication. So much so that we actually are left having to use our imagination of the person we’re texting over the internet and are actually interaction with our own imagined perception of the person who is not present. Anywho, back to the example. I have a tendency of being very harsh, direct, and brutal in my feedback on here. I had a tendency to really express and project my own disgust when I read things that I not only saw were not only bullshit, but I also experienced as disgusting. I got feedback through peoples implicit reactions on here where people told me to calm down and also projected downright fantasies of how they imagined me to be. The truth was a mixed bag because there were plenty of false fantasies they clearly had of me. That said, they’re projections had a hook that I conveniently ignored because I couldn’t see it. That hook, which I see more now, had truth to it. There’s a quote I heard attributed to Byron Katie that I’m very fond of in regards to this point that goes “we don’t talk to each other. We talk to each other’s projection. But only 98% of the time.” Another example of this is a more collective shadow example. In 2013 Time Magazine released a study that stated that the millennial generation are statistically 2.5 times more narcissistic than the “me-generation” of the 1960s. Now, isn’t it ironic that the millennials, particularly liberal millennials, passionately hate the most narcissistic president we ever had? This is just a perfect example of this. Both are genuinely narcissistic. Both are blind to what’s inside them and project that onto an other that serves as a hook. From the Gospel of St. Thomas: ”Jesus said: if you bring forth what is inside you, what you bring forth will save you. If you don’t bring forth what is inside you, what you don’t bring forth will destroy you.”

@OneIntoOne she seems like she’s had some glimpses. Her mind though, as far as I can tell, is still relying on more subtle mental forms to have a way to know and “hold” that which is already and always ever present. Kinda hard to explain.

@King Merk that is actually part of the part. Getting your life handled is actually laying the foundation of becoming a stable person with a more stable mind. So you're still on the path Those that pursue what they honestly want, without lying to themselves about that, is the path of truth believe it or not. It takes much more honesty and truthfulness to say "I don't want truth" when you genuinely don't than if you just stay on the path because you think you should because of ___ (insert whatever logic you were told and came up with). There's a saying in the Gita that says something along the lines of... 'he who renounces the world in name and action while still having a secret craving for it is a hypocrite'. Doesn't sound like you're deviating Getting your shit together is spiritual development. What that means and how that shows up for people in practical terms is different for so many. All of this cultivates a mind that is more at peace and has the capacity and bandwidth to turn inwards. Godspeed!

Get good therapy. Psychoanalysis is my top recommendation.

Kilindi also built over the course of many years so keep that in mind

Pretty damn funny. He might as well have tried convincing Trump why it's better to be honest than compulsively lie.

Lol always gotta wrap a point around “me” ? what a joke dude. Kinda funny how this whole point went from how concerned you were about the repercussions of what Leo is saying into some spiritual dick measuring contest. Lets get one thing straight dude. There is no historical evidence that Christ ever even existed as a historical person. None. There are rumors and stories about potentially going to India near Kashmir and practiced yoga and that’s really about it. Not even the Gnostics take Jesus to be a historical person but rather as an archetypal figure. There is no doubt that many Christians have revelatory experiences like “Born again expirences” which are a sort of kensho/satori or even just Arising & Passing Away experience. The very narcissistic way in which you arrogantly are emphasizing “I” in all of these statements is just like an emperor walking around completely unaware he’s completely naked. It’s just silly. I don’t agree with Leo’s stance on psychedelics and his arrogance (which I appreciate he owns as it’s a common thing for very intellectual people, myself included in that) can get a little redundant in my opinion. That said, mystical experiences (which are not enlightenment) that are interpreted at ethnocentric Christian stages of development are not only doing the world no favor in that, it’s also shooting itself in the foot as they fail to adapt and acknowledge the genuine legitimacy found in all traditions, lineages, and paths. Christ or God for many traditionalist Christians is just an indoctrinated mental form that becomes the basis of ones super ego that often become so repressive and detrimental to one’s mental health and sanity that it becomes utterly toxic. There is no doubt some legitimacy for those that have had some revelatory experience, which is why I can sympathize on why they don’t want to give that up. That said, Christians don’t have it all together. As obvious that really should be this day in age for those living in the modern world. The reality is though, there is no God or Christ that is other than you. If you think you’re still separate from Christ’s Consciousness, you don’t know what you’re talking about. It’s just more forms for your mind to hold onto. Also, regarding your comment on jerking off. Do you realize the states in say the United States that the states have the highest rates of porn addiction are always states that tend to represent Christianity the most? UTAH, those Mormon mofos that wear the undergarments that look like they belonged to Benjamin Franklin’s grandmother that go on cult missions to preach the teachings of Jesus to people in third world countries and say “Ah FUDGE!” instead of “fuck” are the one’s that beat it off the most. Other states right behind them are Bible Belt states like Missouri, Kansas, Arkansas, etc. At least Leo is honest about jerking off rather than being some enlightened guy that teaches brahmacharya and, when the cameras are not rolling, are sexually abusing their students just like what goes on in many Christian churches where pastors eat 9 year choir boy cock for breakfast. Give me a break dude.

Much of what I see Shunya teach on YouTube is honestly just a propagation of belief systems. The very way he teaches, again at least from all that I’ve come across in exchange with him over both YouTube, livestream satsang, and email is really just taught as beliefs. Which is funny because with his mouth he says the thing that would sound “spiritually correct” by saying things like “this is not a belief” or “don’t believe anything” or “we don’t have beliefs” and all this. In yet, all this, whether it’s understood or not is just a preacher preaching beliefs (regardless of whether or not he genuinely has experience directly the things he speaks of or not - and much of what he speaks of he downright has not experienced). He tends to put also out a lot of conspiracy theories that, I imagine, if he were challenged, he would just play this defense of calling out for “egoic delusion” or “oh you that’s just a reflection of your own beliefs” and all this. Any time a spiritual teacher tells you they don’t have beliefs, RUN. I’ve spiritual teacher I’ve met worth their salt including people like Peter Ralston have openly said “of course I still have beliefs”. The difference is their disposition towards beliefs. Shunya, as far as I’m concerned lacks integrity in this area. He says one thing with his and does something else his with his actions. This creates problems as it’s a performative contradiction. Or, to be blunt, it’s lying. Even regarding the Yugas, which, personally, I’m open to that possibility, many different masters of yoga say different things regarding which period we’re in and call out delusion for those don’t see it the way they do which is rather odd, to say the least.

Homie have you heard of persistence hunting of animals that went on for tens of thousands of years and maybe even hundreds? There is no conclusive bulletproof evidence or case of what exactly human being were eating when it came to the fatty sources nutrition that enhanced the very size of our brains but it was a mix of meat vegetables. This case about how we were only “meant to eat fruits and vegetables” is utter hogwash. Human beings have been relying on meat for thousands of years as well as fruits and vegetables.

Regarding antibiotics, growth hormones, etc. I can also speak from the legal status in the state I live in which is California as I do not know the legal status of that in other states as this seems to be a state by state thing in terms of legality. In California though all the stuff you just mentioned is actually illegal so you’re making a mute point. Regarding what I said on the corruption behind the production of our fruits and vegetables, let me try and be more clear, even though it seems you didn’t read my full point clearly enough. My case was not a statement that was stating how our produce production is as corrupt as the meat industry the way it’s currently being run. What I was saying was that there is nonetheless corruption behind our current production of our produce (which the link you sent actually states). It was not a comparison of which was worse. What I was also saying though was that, if there were a sudden shift in the demand of consumers that wanted to go and eat more vegan (just hypothetically), my concern would be that companies would cut corners to keep cost of production down which would lead to a decrease in the quality of produce production. That was my point. This is a little too broad of a brush stroke in my opinion but by and large I would agree.

The other thing too is that not one diet is conducive to be a sufficient source of fuel and energy towards the wide variety all the different human endeavors and work loads which can be taxing. I personally could never pull off a vegan diet for myself in my own athletic endeavors. I never could sustain the energy levels that I could relative to when I ate meat. I recovered faster and I didn’t feel as tired or fatigued than if I ate a primarily vegan diet. Another point I would make is the amount of corruption that also goes on when it comes to how our produce is actually grown. We do not have a healthy way of growing our fruits, vegetables, grains, etc. (speaking for the United States). I wouldn’t be surprised that, in some world where everyday suddenly wanted to buy vegan, the shift in supply and demand would put more of a stress on our produce production and might lead companies to take even more sleazy route in creating cheaper ways for them in producing all of our food at a cheaper cost.

Nonduality is not a state. All states are relative. Sober or not itself is relative. No duality cannot nor will ever be an experience, much less a drug induced one.

I have no idea what you’re talking about dude. Please make this more coherent. Lol You’re like... SOOOO WOOKE BRO!!! I bet meditation is about as easy as beating up babies for you huh? Please tell me more about how easy it is for you so you can flex your own enlightenment like a body builder flexing through a shirt that’s 3 sizes too small.

I would like to share the following PDF file which is a paper written by Ken Wilber back in the 70's on the developmental unfolding of consciousness (I would say mind rather than consciousness but any who...) and the 5 different types of unconscious. I get the strong sense that many people here truly just don't know what they're talking about and just going with modern and post modern social media slogans when they speak of "subconscious" or "unconscious" or "shadows" or "integrate" or whatever. This is paper I'm sharing is an effort to try and correct some of that lazy thinking as this stuff is very complex and I personally don't like to see something like this get dilluted and shallow and people miss a whole depth of understanding that needs to be had in order to truly get a solid grip of what exactly is going on when we're doing any sort of transformative practice regardless of whether it's meditative, psychoanalytic (highly recommend), psychedelics, somatic, all of the above, or anything else. With my finger wagging out the way, Ken Wilber has done a phenomenal job at actually categorizing different types of unconscious which is actually very helpful and clears up a lot of confusion among the different schools of psychology, particularly the psychoanalytic schools that began with Sigmund Freud, as there's a lot of disagreement about the status of the unconscious. I could go on but I'm tired of typing. Here ya go. https://www.atpweb.org/jtparchive/trps-11-79-01-002.pdf

It’s really good that you’re honest about that I wouldn’t be surprised if most people on this forum truly understand 5% of what’s actually being said. So that’s great you see that.

I can confirm the weird shady money tactics

@yannick wow... what a fucking trip. I remember when I was dangerously desperate I was in contact with Shunya about going down there and something, just through our email exchanged, seemed very off and I decided to never go down there. I definitely felt like he was grooming me and my desperation to escape the situation I was in as he was telling me how I'd be his apprentice and shit, do all this tapas, become an "atmanologist" and so forth. What really seemed off and fucked up was when I was told that, if I do decide to go down there, given that obviously I wouldn't be able to earn money if I was down there, I'd have to have my parents and any family members finance me while I was there but at the same time I noticed all his videos where he disparages the modern and postmodern family system. Which raised some alarm bells for me as that just seemed too out of integrity, conveniently manipulative for my own selfish spiritual endeavors, and so forth. I don't take Shunya to be dumb as he does seem very smart but, thankfully, you seem to have been smart enough to really be vigilant enough to have gotten your ass out of there. So I great job on that. That really is commendable. Thank you for sharing this.