MiracleMan

Yeah, I wouldn't break up with her, hopefully I would get support from her during this time. I want the truth, nothing more, nothing less. You see, Leo, what kind of conundrum this entails, I could very well be deceiving myself: this "year off" is as dedicated to finding the Truth as it is to running away from a situation I'm resisting. It seems too convenient. Life is fucking hard from this point of view, but at least here, in this misery, in this suffering, it's the Truth calling, it's God begging me see that I'm not who I believe myself to be. I have this conviction, and there is doubt in my mind but not in my heart, not in my guts, not in my belly. It's ground zero here, a spiritual war zone, with the inescapable physical pain, with depression, with great difficulty waking up in the morning and getting out of bed, with a seeming great weight tying me down, like I'm moving through mud constantly. And then I ask myself, is the above statement true? Is this really true or does it just seem so? There is a struggle with my primary purpose: do I truly want the Truth, or do i just want to escape pain and suffering? Are they different goals? Are either truly self centered? My practice has been totally derailed but I'm attempting to get back at daily Vipassana routines. I haven't meditated regularly in probably 6 months, but I had this crazy experience after asking "who am I" for several weeks. I was doing a bit of breathing meditation before bed, laying on my back. When I finished and rolled on my side to sleep, with my eyes closed in the darkness, I felt my body expand, I felt a warmth throughout my body, I then felt like i was being dragged along in a flow, like the wake in a river or ocean. Throughout this entire experience I noticed that my mind had not stopped, it was still hyper active, thoughts and sounds and images just flying a mile a minute it seemed. I just focused on my breath, I kept feeling "bigger" not like outside of my body, it felt like my body was expanding, like those weird Japanese films where the hero grows 30 feet tall to fight the giant monster attacking the city. I then felt like i was everywhere in my body, floating above my body, and there was a vibrating quality in this experience, a constant humming or buzzing of my entire body. I was kind of surprised this occurred, I had always believed that the mind HAD to come to heel, to be silenced to have any sort of experience whatsoever. This is incorrect. The mind can be going a thousand miles per second, but it was so peripheral, so outside of my focus. This experience happened at least 3 more times during night time, during my "before bed" meditation. I could never induce it, I tried, it just occurs spontaneously. Some of the other occasions had slightly different sensations. Other times I would be on my lying on back, head propped upright, and I would feel like I'm being dragged along again. Then I felt an intense sin wave like pattern going through my body starting at my feet. Imagine someone taking a towel by the short ends and flapping it up and down to throw the sand off of it, it was like that, very rapidly, up and down, up and down. I was very excited throughout a lot of these experiences and it didn't diminish them, they ended when they ended, just as they began, spontaneously. I've had other sensations in sitting meditation where I felt like I was 30 feet tall, just a giant expansion. Despite these experiences, I've had trouble keeping up a daily practice. Like I said before, my mind will never be convinced of God, of the fruits of meditation, liberation, any of it, sometimes I think I've "got it" then the doubt surfaces as always. But I have to start trusting my heart, it's almost bursting, its an overwhelming warmth and pleasant feeling in my solar plexus and gut. It just fucking knows, I cannot explain it, but my life has been so dictated by my mind for so long, that it's a habit to go with the mind instead of the gut. I heard a teacher say, if you are sincere about the Truth, really sincere about it, with no interest in getting out of pain or what benefits "you" might receive, it WILL manifest in your life, it will guide you to where you need to be so long as you relentlessly pursue "who am i" and "what is the truth". It's impossible to forget this pursuit, it's like something flipped on in the background, just something that is constantly questioning the validity of my assumptions surrounding my identity.

Really you don't? What is blue and green without the idea of it. You think humans are special? Do you think a bear understands red and blue like you do? It's a concept plain and simple, it also takes no thinking to perceive blue or green, it takes thinking to assign a value to blue and green. You're missing the point here, you're confusing perception with thought.

There is NO "physical" difference between a circle and a square because they do not appear in nature. Neither exist in nature, but its difficult to believe that with materialistic conditioning. A circle is a concept as is a square, it does not exist in what you would call physical reality. I'm a designer/engineer and I can tell you that you will never find a square or circle in nature, it's a convention we use to make sense of the world, and for practicality sake. A measurement isnt real, there are an infinite amount of decimal places behind every measurement. So a square or triangle or any geometric shape is perfect, its a static noun, a mind made thing, and impossible to exist in nature. Things can only appear to be triangles, or squares, or whatever. It's all mind. Not to mention when you sleep, and entire world is built exclusively from mind and it's memories, but it's just written off as being a strange phenomenon, even though we spend 1/3 of our lives there. In a sense, deep sleep is the most real state, then dream sleep, then the waking state. This is Ramana Maharshi's view on this subject. "4. When will the realization of the Self be gained? When the world which is what-is-seen has been removed, there will be realization of the Self which is the seer. 5. Will there not be realization of the Self even while the world is there (taken as real)? There will not be. 6. Why? The seer and the object seen are like the rope and the snake. Just as the knowledge of the rope which is the substrate will not arise unless the false knowledge of the illusory serpent goes, so the realization of the Self which is the substrate will not be gained unless the belief that the world is real is removed."

Part 1 Prove me wrong because I'm messing around with thought experiments and I'm trying to poke holes in this theory and coming up short. Does anything exist outside conscious awareness? How could it be possible to scientifically prove if something exists outside of consciousness if consciousness is required to perform the experiment? Part 2 Some questions I want to discuss: Can the background be separated from the objects appearing in it? If a finite object has space around it, How can the background be infinite, because there's an object in the space, therefore it's now limited? So if I'm looking out into empty space, or just being aware of the space around any object like my hand, is that unlimited and infinite space or is it also limited because there's an object located there? I'm thinking there would have to be something unlimited for something limited to exist. Because if space was limited in some way, it would have to BE a finite object with limited properties.

I thought the same thing before, but you can't watch the video outside of conscious awareness. You get your results in the images the camera records. The results can't exist until they are observed, by a human or a machine or what have you. Even if a machine makes the observation, a human will eventually have to observe the observation. But then there is the issue with the results right. It would be a video of an empty room. Does this really prove scientifically that what occurred in the video happened outside consciousness? Despite the fact that consciousness was required to be able to make that conclusion.

When you begin the mantra, where did it come from? Before you started the mantra, where was it, then when you finished the mantra where did it go? Who is the one who is repeating a mantra?! Bahahaha. I like this question a bit too much.

@Joseph Maynor Have you read A Course In Miracles? That's supposedly channeled by the "spirit" of Jesus. If we take ACIM to be legitimate, then Jesus was definitely enlightened. The claim is that the entire book is scribed, actually dictated by Jesus. I've read about half the text so far, it's a very awesome read, although I'd say it's a little extreme in the sense that the prescribed path demands you deny the reality of what you think is real. That war going on? God didn't create it, so it's unreal. That sort of thing. The book begins by teaching in a dualistic manner, making a distinction between you (The Son) and God (The Father) and working towards unity towards the end of the workbook. I thought it would be interesting because a lot of spiritual teachers people quote and provide links to have used ACIM in some of their teachings, like Eckhart Tolle, David Hawkins, Paul Hedderman, probably a lot more.

It makes so much sense, its so obvious, here drink this koolaid ![sarcasm]

I've had a chronic pain syndrome for the last couple of years, and I had a good run of relief for a while but lately the pain has intensified again. My pain is dead center of my lower back in the spine, I get shooting pains and muscle spasms in my legs 24 hours a day much like sciatica. I'm pretty young, 31, and the doctors have done about as much as they can do because they don't see anything on MRI or CT scans except for a slightly bulging disc that doesn't necessarily prove the cause of pain. So I'm trying to become more present and not focus on the pain I'm experiencing, it's been pretty hard. If my attention is focused elsewhere the pain is greatly diminished but it soon returns with intensity after any activity. I think this is a mind-body process, sometimes the pain appears in other parts of the body but never all at once, so it's like inflammation starts in the lower back and swelling causes the spasms and pain in the legs, when it isn't in the lower back it will be in my hands arms and wrists and feels much like carpal tunnel syndrome, when it isn't present there it's usually in the form of gastrointestinal pain, and when it's not in that location it's usually in my head in the form of disturbing, depressing, and angry thoughts. I watch this stuff come and go, and try my best to recognize that this isn't "me" in totality and that none of it belongs to "me". But it still just fucking hurts lol. I sort of recognize the pain as just PAIN and not back pain, leg pain, stomach pain, this, that. Is the pain here to teach me something, is this a part of karma, have all my karmic debts caught up with me? For the past few years I've been asking how much of this must I endure before I learn my lesson? What has to be done to be rid of the pain? I've listened to Kahn, and Tolle talk about pain. I've haven't had a pain killer in over a year, and I don't plan on going back to pain killers because they don't cure the pain and in fact made my pain worse and myself more dependant on the medication. Is the pain evidence of an overbearing ego, something that is so afraid and anxious, wants to control all outcomes, wants to feel superior? Should I recognize that pain is but a parasite, something that genuinely isn't me? Is it really "my" pain?

Whatever can be perceived can't be perceiving! Paul Hedderman said it, it makes a lot of sense. If your nature is empty space, any "thing" and every "thing" is inside of awareness, inside of you. This even works from a logical perspective. If a "thing" was conscious, it would have to be OUTSIDE consciousness, which is impossible, and no one ever found a damn thing outside of it. So every "thing" that can be perceived through the six senses is THAT which IS perceived, not what is perceiving. Look at each individual sense. An eye can't see itself, feeling can't feel itself, hearing can't hear itself, etc. All experience, all sensation arises, to what? To whom? Even the body, arises, in your experience. Does the body perceive or do YOU perceive the body? Are you in the body or is the body in you?

Maybe it has! Haven't you made progress? Sorry I did over exaggerate a bit, I'm not sure if the person became enlightened after that event with Matt. I can find you the video where he describes it if you like. Adyashanti has said that someone woke up right then and there in front of his eyes through direct transmission, but this seems rare, I guess the guy was on the tipping point.

I like to use woowoo rays, I've seen it used as a derogatory term against spiritual folks but I remember Matt Kahn embracing it and using it anyways, and I just thought it was the most hilarious thing. So hopefully folks won't take me too seriously. Hit me with the juice! Also, I've seen this in Christian mysticism too, laying on hands and what not, and I've been to events like that in my youth and the energy of the atmosphere was unbelievable. I have my own personal hang ups about organized religion, but i remember 'feeling' much more than 'thinking' in those times of being in the church. The words went right by me. I had a huge falling out of my religion when I became a teenager and I focused much more of the words, thoughts, instead of that feeling I could only describe in words as just 'yes, Lord, yes'. So I definitely do believe in direct transmission, I imagine it could even be more effective than sharing words! Sorry for the long response but you always seem to bring stuff out Nahm lol.

Matt Kahn says he shot woowoo rays into someone once and woke then up. I have no idea if it's true. But I'm really talking about direct transmission, just trying to be funny. Ramana Maharshi and countless other teachers believe in direct transmission, just being in the presence of someone fully awakened can help along the process, so I'm told. What do you think?

That's how I want to go out!

The eye can't turn round and see itself, so you can never meet the Buddha, only be it. If you see him, kill him. Squawk! But really, if I saw someone Buddha like, I'd ask them to shoot woowoo rays into my eyeballs and wake my ass up.

The problem with the principle of emergent consciousness is that it implies that it comes and goes, it's still materialism but maybe it's a step in the right direction? Maybe not, there seems to be a trend in physics now for panpsychism, the idea that consciousness is inside everything, but this is still making consciousness into a material thing. No one has ever found anything outside consciousness right? Seems that all observed phenomena exists within consciousness, consciousness does not exist in phenomena.

Science is the ultimate search for truth when it's procedure is strictly followed. Spirituality is ultimately a science of the first person observer, whereby the scientist investigates his own experience and makes a conclusion based on fact. Maybe this is why enlightenment is even possible, because direct experience cannot be denied, it's maybe even more scientific than that of a third person observation, for example, matter seems to be an appearance of reality but it cannot be verified by experience, I can never find something here called matter. On the other hand, I am aware that I am aware, it's verifiable from my own experience, and while no one else has the authority to say whether I'm aware or not, it's a 100% undeniable fact for me. The issue with the entire matter phenomenon is the current science "believes" it's something outside consciousness, that first there was matter, then the universe, then the planets and stars, then the biological organisms, then the brain, then the mind, and finally consciousness is produced in the mind. This is totally backwards from our actual experience, so it's good to ask yourself if you believe the model given by present society, or your own raw experience. This really blew my mind the first time I gave it some attention. Nothing exists outside consciousness, no one has ever found anything outside consciousness, but our entire society believes that there exists a world outside of themselves, myself included, it's just a deep rooted belief that seems automatic, even though I can verify my direct experience tells me that nothing can exist outside consciousness, I'm still in autopilot, it still feels to me like there is a barrier between me and the other.

Exactly, paying $10 for a book is totally reasonable in my opinion, a used book even cheaper. If you have access to a big library, even cheaper still. The issue here is that it's much more difficult to get your message to the people you want without a vehicle for distributing it, which costs money in our society. By what method could you make it totally free of cost and get this information to as many people as possible? A person who is destitute is much more likely to come across an old beat up copy of "The Power of Now" or ACIM or some widely distributed and popular than a database of free information on some obscure location on the internet. I think the resources for spirituality is much more widely available than you think for free content, the problem is you have to dig for it BECAUSE it's free. On the other hand you can get some very good books with all the pointers you could ever need to establish a practice at very low cost if you do some research.

Can't buy me love, everybody tells me so!

My opinion here, I would be weary to suggest spiritual information be free, I mean it like this: If Eckhart Tolle didn't sell shit tons of books and promote his "brand" so to speak, I might not have ever even heard about him. Spirituality might be even more obscure if people couldn't get published on a platform that can reach the mainstream. The problem with having free content is the method of distribution. Selling your product is a much better way to get your information to as much people as possible. This is generally how our society works, and why a lot of spiritual teachers write and sell books, it's also a lucrative business, and it's not always a 100% honest and sincere effort, yeah there are people out there just trying to cash in on a popular product, but this is hardly limited to spirituality. Some of the best spiritual teachers also sell their teachings and try to make a living this way, a lot of teachers quoted on this forum make their living or a portion of it from their teachings. I don't honestly see anything wrong with this so long as it's honest and it's clear what is being sold. There are pros and cons to both forms, free and paid. A con would be that spiritual seeking can be fed, like an addiction, people desperate for answers and money at disposal can spend lots of money they have no business spending, and it can go on for a long time. Anyone else want to weigh in pros and cons?

"When I put on this hat, I find it covers the entire universe."

In fact, they go together like two halves of a whole, although western civilation is indoctrinated as science being the totality. This is an incorrect assumption, ONLY in the respect that it causes suffering. The science we are thereby educated is only one half: the science of the "observed" or the "third person." Our civilization is missing the other half, the science of the "observer" or the "first person" which is foremost and utmost in the epicenter of truth, the one reality, and the only authority for the truth. Douglas Harding, who I'm channeling here, I'm a huge fan of, and he refers to these subjects as Science 1 (observer) and Science 3 (observed). The two seem so contrasting, but if you really look hard at the evidence of both worlds, they truly confirm one another, they cooperate and verify an immense amount of confusion. First bold statement: The earth is flat. But.... It is also a sphere. Because it all depends on the position of the observer. Einstein's genius shines as relativity can help tie in both what we see and what is seen. The first person perspective, the only one true nature of reality, in this place, and this position, from my point of view, sees the world as a flat plane, that can roll up into hills, mountains, bounding streams and lakes and rivers, deep canyons, and eventually terminating at a vast ocean which eventually resolves into nothingness. Even if I managed to walk in a straight line, and ended up in the same place I did before, I might have a hard time convincing myself of roundness, because my experience would still be of flatness. It is only science 3 that would confirm that from some great distance, the flatness of the earth is now seen to be in fact not flat at all. Now I never have, but I imagine if I took a rocket and burst straight out of the sky and looked back over my shoulder I'd see what resembled a sphere, and further still a pale blue dot, and even further still a tiny blip of light, and eventually nothing at all. It's incredible to see that indeed science is not an enemy of spirituality, but rather a part of the sum total. The issue in today's society is that science is seen as the totality of reality. For example, I see the sun move in the sky, and I wouldn't be wrong for seeing it. From the observer, it indeed moves. From the observed, it is indeed stationary. Neither is right or wrong, it's all a question of what perspective you take. It's only when either party takes the side of righteousness that we run into problems. If someone insists the world is flat, and only flat, they'd be only be looking at half the picture, and it's the same for the opposite. Science 1 AND Science 3 together, and only together, not apart, have a sane perspective. The two are actually one whole. So, in my opinion, both are valid perspectives, one might have a more practical application when it comes to manifestation, but we can no longer ignore the first person as just a fluke or passerby, it's really ground zero for reality. You could argue, and might be correct, in saying that it is the only reality possible. I would start with the assumption that you have a head and face, if you're really honest with yourself you might find you have no face, no head, no eyes at all, but a seemingly clear, colorless, empty capacity for the entire world to appear in. After all, the idea that the world is stuck inside a skull is just insane, but that seems to be the belief of society at large.

Love your avatar, fan of Douglas Harding? @Jedd Nofap is a good place to start, but if it isn't for you, you can consider SAA. The reason that program works is exactly what Alan Watts is referring to in the video that @Truth Seekah linked. All 12 steps are derived from AA, and they are amazing programs for spiritual awakening. NoFap has worked for a lot of guys, I couldn't do it on my own so I got help through a sponsor and the fellowship of the program, I've talked to guys and gals who have had years of sobriety through no effort of their own, through a higher power, which mine is conscious awareness, aka God in my understanding. It's still a lot of hard work whether you go through nofap or a 12 step, or your own path. In this sense, all roads lead home. Best of luck, and I hope you realize relief friend. P.S. whatever path you choose, even nofap, I would enlist the aid of another who has some sobriety under their belt, it's not required but it helps so much, you cannot understand presently what a lifeline it is. This person, whether its a sponsor, a group, an accountability partner, can literally pour energy into you, it goes beyond anything you could discuss in words, and in my opinion, the most important aspect of kicking this addiction. I got a lot of good advice from Paul Hedderman, who was a coke addict and alcoholic, he pulls a lot gems from AA and also ACIM, he really helps with a lot of pitfalls and traps along the path.

I think the flaw of intellect is that it believes it's greater than what it was born from, and while practically an amazing tool, it has two sharp edges.

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