Shanmugam

If you are curious to know how Ramana Maharshi lived and what he spoke everyday with more precise details, then I would suggest you all to read the book 'DAY BY DAY WITH BHAGAVAN' - (From the Diary of A. DEVARAJA MUDALIAR) . It is actually a diary of a devotee, who has recorded many things in Ramana's life very precisely. You can download the book for free here: https://archive.org/download/RamanaMaharshiBeAsYouAre/Ramana Maharshi/Ramana Maharshi - Day By Day With Bhagavan.pdf It includes not only the conversations with visiting seekers, but many casual conversations of Ramana from his day to day life.

That is because your birth is an idea which has been developed based on the premise that there is a 'you' separate from existence. When the illusion of the separate 'you' is broken, the reality remains, which is unborn.

@egoless I don't see any reason why it is not possible.. We cannot really generalize like this when it comes to enlightenment because each person still acts according to this own traits and uniqueness. But life becomes a game after enlightenment. You still live your life but the attitude towards it totally changes. Becoming a successful CFO doesn't have anything to do with enlightenment. It only has to do with that person's capabilities. If he is capable of becoming a successful CFO, he will. But he doesn't go about it with the same attitude or mindset that an unenlightened person has. He just does what is needed without worrying about success or failure.

@John You don't see such examples because they don't become public figures.. The public figures who you see are only the tip of the iceberg. There are probably thousands of spiritually awakened people who continue to do the same thing after enlightenment. Actually, what you said is not a rule but an exception. Only a very few people give up their old jobs after enlightenment and create an organization to guide other people. As Brimstone rightly said, the change that occurs is actually a shift in the perception of self. That shouldn't necessarily change their lifestyle. After awakening, you may not be interested in personal success because you feel already complete, fulfilled and you won't have a necessity to accumulate or crave for anything. But you still continue the old life style and even try to go to the next step in the ladder for other reasons. What if you have a family and children to support, you still have to fulfill their dreams. Awakened ones hardly think about future. They act according to what the present moment or situation demands. But to others their actions may appear like motivated by craving for fulfillment. When people who are not awakened think about how it feels like living an awakened life, they can only think based on their limited, ego or identity based existence. So, they will always come to wrong conclusions no matter how intelligent they are. Because, somehow unconsciously they still assume that there is going to be duality (or being separate from the existence) after awakening. But after awakening, it opens a huge number of possibilities. You feel totally liberated from the prison of having a limited existence and you feel boundless. You may even act like a fool if you want to.

Disclaimer: This is just for fun. I didn’t write this in keeping any particular organization in my mind. Many of the ways that I have described here have actually been adopted by many authentic gurus. But this is just to show you how sometimes fake gurus may take advantage of this. . It is good to be aware of this dangerous possibility. This is a repost of my answer to a Quora question: How can I outsmart the existing Godmen in India? I will offer you a solution but make sure you implement it as quickly as possible. Because, once everyone gets to know the trick, then the system will no longer work. 1. Read some books of Osho, collect some anecdotes from lives of Shankara, Ramana Maharishi, Ramakrishna and also collect some jokes. It may take approximately 1 or 2 months. 2. Now, you have to create a meditation technique for the basic course. It is easy: First, go to this link: Custom Random Number Generator Enter the lower limit as 1 and higher limit as 10,000 and click ‘Enter’. It will create a 4 digit random number. If the sum of all digits are less than 20, then try again. For this example, let us assume that the random number you got is 6834. Now collect 4 random short spiritual practices. Try mantra chanting, pranayamas, asanas etc. Be creative! Now you just need to assign each digit from the random number to one specific practice. 6- some kind of asana, 8- some kind of pranayama, 3- mantra chanting, 4- silently sitting and doing nothing. Your basic course is now ready. It contains 6 minutes of the chosen asana, followed by 8 minutes of the chosen pranayama, 3 minutes of mantra chanting and 4 minutes of silently sitting and doing nothing. Create an appealing Sanskrit compound word as the name for the course. How about ‘Anandaspandana kriya’? You can fix the price after analyzing the competitor rates. In the beginning, you can start with about Rs.800 or RS.900 and then slowly increase the price. 3. Follow a similar procedure for the advanced courses. Advanced courses may contain practices like non-stop jumping, shouting, lying down like a corpse, laughing etc. 4. Create your enlightenment story. This should be dramatic and touching. This is a very important part. So, be creative! Choose a date for your enlightenment. You can Google for sample enlightenment stories or ask a question in Quora to describe someone’s awakening experience. You will get an idea. The success of your Godman career depends on the nature of the story you create. Let it be unique and interesting. 5. Now, you have to create your past life story. Go to a real town, preferably out of your state. Note down the important details of the town which will help you work on your past life story. Collect some historical details. Now, use the same random number generator to create a three digit number. Subtract that number from the current year. The answer you get is the year you were born in this town during your last birth. This way you can create story that sounds genuine. 6. You need to register a non-profit organization and also have someone design a website for it. There are lots of fancy names that you can choose from: Lifemantras foundation, Anandasutra foundation, Brahmashanthi foundation, Jeevasiddhi foundation etc (all four names are available; I checked in Google and no Godman is currently using them). 7. Your website should describe your enlightenment experience and your past life stories. Photograph some people doing meditations while faking extreme ecstasy on their face. Most importantly, take some photographs of yourself in perfect lighting. You have to do a lot of tweaking in Photoshop. 8. Now you can work your way to build your empire. You can start offering courses for free for a few days. Then gradually start offering paid courses. 9. Initially you may need to temporarily hire some people who sit with other course participants and then do some creepy things as if they are experiencing some kind of special energy or bliss. Each person’s reaction should be different. one person should cry, another person should yell, yet another person should shake their head left and right continuously for a few minutes. Seeing this, other participants will also somehow try to fake it. Make sure all these things are videotaped. 10. Now you need to work on other things like creating testimonials, planting some trees and posting the pics in your website etc. ........................................ Thats it. This is the basic structure that you need to know. How you take it from here depends on your creativity and imagination. If you have good English, good voice and public speaking skills, you can easily start making money in the next one year. Some additional tips for extra-income: Within one year, you can start selling the books that have your transcribed talks (price range Rs.200 - Rs.500), DVDs (Rs.500 per DVD), energized lockets, energized rings etc. You can also sell your laminated pictures for Rs.200, Rs.500 and Rs. 1000, depending on the size. In each program, show the participants a video that explains how volunteering is good for spiritual growth. You will start getting volunteers to do a lot of the work without pay. A large part of income comes from donations. So, use it wisely. Learn some cult programming techniques from here: How Cults Work - CULTWATCH . This is very important to get dedicated and large number of followers. Once you get established in India, it is time to set up a branch in US. The real growth happens after that!

Spiritual path is for losers! You lose your interest in running on the hedonic treadmill; You lose your identification with your mind and body; You lose stress, anxiety, fear and dissatisfaction; Finally, you lose yourself in the ocean of consciousness. - written by a loser.

@cirkussmile Did you read the disclaimer in my post? I know two people in India who were not genuine but used such techniques to convince that they are enlightened... One person turned out to be fake and caught up in sex scandal.. he is currently producing videos to show how to move coconuts with mind power, to attract some crowds ... I have personally met the other person (happened in 2008), who persuaded me to become his disciple and wanted me to prepare transcriptions for his talks. By the way, he himself was a disciple of the first person. He invited me to his house and his bookshelf was full of Osho's books. Later, when I checked his website, I found the contents to be exact copy and paste from Osho's talks., without missing even articles like 'a' and 'the'... When someone is a true seeker, it is not a big problem and he will eventually find his way.. But if you somehow get brainwashed to work for their organization and dedicate your own life to build someone else'e empire, that is when it becomes problem, especially if the guru is fake.

@Nahm Is it available elsewhere, like Youtube? I would love to watch it

The book is written by Sam Harris and is very interesting.. I am currently reading chapter 3.. Did anyone else read it? It is very interesting and offers some scientific perspective about spirituality. Here is a part from the 3rd chapter: I once spent an afternoon on the northwestern shore of the Sea of Galilee, atop the mount where Jesus is believed to have preached his most famous sermon. It was an infernally hot day, and the sanctuary where I sat was crowded with Christian pilgrims from many continents. Some gathered silently in the shade, while others staggered about in the sun, taking photographs. As I gazed at the surrounding hills, a feeling of peace came over me. It soon grew to a blissful stillness that silenced my thoughts. In an instant, the sense of being a separate self—an “I” or a “me”—vanished. Everything was as it had been—the cloudless sky, the brown hills sloping to an inland sea, the pilgrims clutching their bottles of water—but I no longer felt separate from the scene, peering out at the world from behind my eyes. Only the world remained. The experience lasted just a few seconds, but it returned many times as I looked out over the land where Jesus is believed to have walked, gathered his apostles, and worked many of his miracles. If I were a Christian, I would undoubtedly have interpreted this experience in Christian terms. I might believe that I had glimpsed the oneness of God or been touched by the Holy Spirit. If I were a Hindu, I might think in terms of Brahman, the eternal Self, of which the world and all individual minds are thought to be a mere modification. If I were a Buddhist, I might talk about the “dharmakaya of emptiness,” in which all apparent things manifest as in a dream. But I am simply someone who is making his best effort to be a rational human being. Consequently, I am very slow to draw metaphysical conclusions from experiences of this sort. And yet, I glimpse what I will call the intrinsic selflessness of consciousness every day, whether at a traditional holy site, or at my desk, or while having my teeth cleaned. This is not an accident. I’ve spent many years practicing meditation, the purpose of which is to cut through the illusion of the self.

@Visionary I am not sure about these topics as I haven't read them (regarding moral superiority and views about the West).. But I remember somewhere reading that science can answer questions about morality. I have to read more about that before I can comment on it.. Do you have a link to any article of him where he talks about 'moral superiority'?

I am not quite familiar with his political views.. I am not familiar with all of his articles and videos either... Have read his book 'waking up' and have watched some of the videos.. There has to be a balance between skepticism and open mindedness.. There are people who tend to lean more towards skepticism and reject everything; there are people who are way too open minded and end up believing in everything they hear..So, it is like walking on a rope. People may go off balance at times, but just from the overview of what Sam has spoken so far, I think he is going really good in keeping this balance. (but yeah, as any human being, he may lose his balance at times). Humbleness is totally different from open-mindedness.. I can't judge how humble he is in general. But when you take this particular example of Papaji, almost all the western people who were told that they were enlightened by Papaji started teaching.. But Sam Harris was mature enough to not to delude himself. Humility is probably not an accurate word here, but I know that for most people it is very difficult to not to get deluded when they are told that their search is over and they are qualified to teach others. Regarding God, he is very clear about what he criticizes.. He criticizes the belief of a personal God who is watching over us all the time, who will torture non-believers in hell for eternity and who will grant 72 virgins in heaven to people who choose to believe in him.And he is saying that this has led to a lot of violence in the world, which is true.. Just to give one example from millions available, one guy, Bakhtiyar Khilji destroyed the ancient Nalanda university, burnt thousands of Buddhist scriptures and killed people just because they didn't believe in the God he believed in... Just recently, I read about blasphemy laws of various countries and I was really shocked. Unfortunately, people in some countries are way too far away from spiritual awakening just because of things that they are forced to believe in.

@Visionary Why do you think he is not open minded? May be you need to redefine your definition for open-mindedness .

You said it well... People are too quick to form opinions about others... He is not there bragging about anything or making any extraordinary claims.. One thing proves his humbleness... There are many students of Papaji today who have started to teach and claiming that they are enlightened just because they believed in Papaji when he said 'you are enlightened'.. When Papaji said something like this to Sam Harris and asked him to teach, he was not deluded enough to believe that he was enlightened. Instead, he is humble enough to say that he is not qualified to teach. Just because he is rational, it doesn't mean he cannot meditate...(he has been doing that for years)... In fact, it is better to be rational than believing in all kinds of nonsense.. I think people have mistaken when Osho and others said 'you cannot understand the reality with logical mind'... Yes, it is true.. but that doesn't mean that people who are rational are not on the right path... it is actually the opposite. Logic should be used when it should be used and should be put away when it needs to be put away...

Try this... when you observe a sensation, it cannot be you.. because you cannot be the same as what you observe.. If you see a dog, you cannot be the dog because you see the dog... The observer and the observed cannot be the same... So, whatever you observe, notice, sense or feel is not you.. Try discriminating this way.. Than you will understand that what observes never changes but what is observed changes all the time..

Based on what I read in his book 'Waking up', I am pretty sure Sam Harris is on the right track.. The book is also helpful in introducing spirituality to skeptical minded people... And he doesn't claim to be enlightened... He says that Papaji asked him to start teaching but he doesn't feel like he is qualified to teach. @Leo Gura Did you read his book Waking Up'? For some reason, your opinion about Sam Harris doesn't seem to be good, and I wonder why... Thats a news to me.. Did he explicitly state anywhere that he has reached stream entry? He doesn't state that in his book 'Waking up'..

@egoless You are just playing with words... Words are only pointers, and spiritual teaching is like a finger pointing to the moon. If someone is using his finger to point to the moon, you should not keep looking at the finger, instead you need to look at the moon.. But you are dissecting the finger and looking its cells under the microscope. You will not find the moon there. Don't take things too literally.. Just keep practicing what you are supposed to practice. It is only the practice that can clear your doubts.

@egoless thats a poem written by me

I really don't have a solid concept of who I am in my mind .....But when someone in daily life asks me who I am, I know what they want to know and I just answer them with my name, where I am from etc, just the usual reply. Here is a poem for you: Carrying the weight of past in my head And dragging the scenes which were old and dead, I ran to grab the bliss of the future; The more I ran, the more was the torture.. The torture of the hedonic treadmill Followed me as I continued uphill; I was caught in the prison of craving With tedious thoughts, my mind was raving. I met an ugly old man on the way who had a long thick beard with shades of grey. His face was shining with heavenly bliss; In his eyes I saw an endless abyss! “What makes you so happy in this rat race?”, I asked him as he slowly turned his face. He replied,”The answer is within you! The grand kingdom of God is within you!” “That’s a joke”, I said “Are you kidding me?”. “No!” He said, “Turn inward, you’ll become free! You’ve made your own boundaries inside your mind, You’ve closed your eyes and think you’ve become blind”. I said, “How can I get out of this trap? I want to find the way, give me the map” He said, “You’re the way, the truth and the life! Be still and know you’re that, and end this strife! You’re not your body and you’re not your mind; Not knowing the timeless truth makes you blind; You’re not your story and you’re not your thoughts; You’re not those age old, buried mental knots. You’re not that chattering voice in your head; You’re not anything that you did or said; You’re not anything that you have or know You’re the truth that is watching all this show! You’re not anything that can be perceived; You’re not an object that can be observed; You’re the screen where the world is being played; You’re the emptiness where the form is made. You’re the one witnessing the mind and breath; You’re one without two, beyond birth and death; Like the air trapped in a small round bubble, You feel separate which brings all the trouble. Inquire inside and wake up from this dream! Let truth alone shine like a bright white beam! By inquiry, your illusions will break; You’ll stop mistaking the rope for a snake” Hearing these words stopped my thoughts for a while. Looking in, I slowly began to smile. I watched my thoughts as they slowly passed by; I observed my mind like a secret spy. For years, I contemplated on his words; I watched my thoughts fly like a bunch of birds. One day, I woke up and realized the truth; Since then my life has been peaceful and smooth!

@egoless I would really recommend Sam Harris book 'Waking up -spirituality without religion'.. I think it will suit you well for your mindset and create a trust in spiritual practices... And continue your mindfuless practice but don't worry too much about theories and concepts... Mindfulness is the best known cure for compulsive thinking..

@egoless Probably you are asking if everything is happening just in the brain... I can tell you that everything can be explained in terms of brain activity. The only thing that scientists have no explanation for is the 'hard problem of conciousness'... Spirituality cannot give any verifiable proof for non-local conciousness either. But if you are trying to understand these things, there is no scope in spirituality. And Science doesn't have a definite answer either. I myself approach everything in scientific way. And I don't like believing in anything. But I can assure you that mindfulness works..

I think your problem is with the word 'nothingness'... Not sure in what context you came across the statement 'Nothingness is self aware' and for me just this statement alone doesn't mean anything at all. But I can see what the author would have meant and I can elaborate on it. What is a 'thing'? It can be anything that can be witnessed by your senses or in the consciousness. By this definition, a thought is also a 'thing'. So, you, who witnesses any thing cannot be a thing. It is a no-thing . The word no-thingness is probably more clear than nothingness. You keep trying to conceptualize who you are... Anyway, if you think your inner voice is self-aware, thats ok for now. Just go ahead with what you are practicing, if it is working for you..

Osho, How to sacrifice the ego? It is impossible. The ego cannot be sacrificed because the ego exists not. The ego is just all idea: it has no substance in it. It is not something – it is just pure nothing. You give it reality by believing in it. You can withdraw belief and the reality disappears, evaporates. The ego is a kind of absence. Because you don’t know yourself, hence the ego. The moment you know yourself, no ego is found. The ego is like darkness; darkness has no positive existence of its own; it is simply the absence of light. You cannot fight with darkness, or can you? You cannot throw darkness out of the room; you cannot take it out, you cannot take it in. You cannot do anything with darkness directly. If you want to do anything with darkness, you will have to do something with light. If you put the light on, there is no darkness; if you put the light off, there is darkness. Darkness is only the absence of light, so is ego: absence of self-knowledge. You cannot sacrifice it. It has been told to you again and again: “Sacrifice your ego” – and the statement is patently absurd, because something that does not exist cannot be sacrificed. And if you try to sacrifice it, something which is not there in the first place at all, you will be creating a new ego – the ego of the humble, the ego of the egoless, the ego of the person who thinks he has sacrificed his ego. It will be a new kind of darkness again. No, I don’t say to you sacrifice the ego. On the contrary, I say try to see where the ego is. Look deep into it; try to locate it, where it exists, whether it exists at all or not. Before one can sacrifice anything one must be certain about its existence. But don’t be against it from the very beginning. If you are against it, you cannot look deep into it. There is no need to be against anything. The ego is your experience – maybe it is just apparent, but it is still your experience. Your whole life moves around the phenomenon of the ego. It may be a dream, but to you it is so true. There is no need to be against it. Dive deep into it, go into it. Going into it means bringing awareness into your house, bringing light into darkness. Be alert, watchful. Watch the ways of the ego, how it functions, how it manages at all. And you will be surprised: the deeper you go into it, the less it is found. And when you have penetrated to the very core of your being, you will find something totally different which is not ego, which is egolessness. It is self, supreme self – it is godliness. You have disappeared as a separate entity; you are no more an island. Now you are part of the whole. - Osho, The Fish in the Sea is Not Thirsty, Talk #12