Shanmugam

@Deep @Nahm I am having a drink.... .. I drink every sunday... And I am very grateful to this forum.. And I can't thank @Anna1 and @Nichols Harvey enough... Because, they were the sole reason why I wrote a book. If I have never met them online, things would have been different and I would not have published a book... It is all because of God, the mystery beyond the existence....I bow down to existence because of the priceless encounters and experiences that the mysterious 'God' has offered me,, I can't think Him enough... I was a helpless guy who was suffering every minute and complaining about the nature of existence when I was 15 years old.. I remember how it was... It was a Hell, literally... And now I don't know who to thank... ... forget about this 'Shanmugam' who is just a spec in the infinity of the existence... But think about that tremendous possibility of uniting with 'God', uniting with the absolute mystery of the existence who showers love and grace; who showers that priceless thing called 'enlightenment'... This thread is just a gratitude to every piece of life in this universe.... I Love you all! I just feel an ocean of gratitude but I have no idea who I should be thankful for....

@Nahm This is not an intellectual discussion... So I am not going to get into such discussion in this thread.. This thread is about love... How is your weekend going?

Probably you are right according to your perspective and I am right according to my perspective... But is there anyway that both of us can be friends? Consider that I am wrong; but is there a way that we can be tolerant of each other in spite of such differences? Forget about proving who is right and who is wrong... If you want then let me do this.., I am wrong and whatever I am saying is bullshit.. Happy? But the question is, are you willing to smile at me and accept me as your friend or brother? Because, as far as I am concerned, that is what life is about.. It is about love. And acceptance... And I could be wrong according to what I think.. But can we focus on smiling at each each other and accepting each other as they are?

@Monkey-man He said Jesus was a bastard.. just one example. ..

Because he harshly criticized politicians and religions.. He was very critical of church and pope. He criticized Ronald Reagan very openly. So, obviously government and churches were very angry on him. Also, a lot of crimes were committed by Osho's sannyasins when Osho was in public silence for two years. One of the greatest bioterror attacks in the US was committed by a handful of his power hungry disciples and Osho was held responsible for that.

Osho's approach was different and unconventional. But by that approach, he was able to make more people open to him. I am just including what I posted in another thread: I was exposed to very deep teachings when I was too young. And I totally misunderstood them, until I came across Osho's books when I was about 18 or 19 years old. And he indeed was a genius. He was also probably the only teacher who has created different impressions about him on different people. One group would think of him as a dangerous, fraudulent cult leader who was as evil as devil. Another group would think of him as the greatest spiritual guru of this century. In fact, if a person reads a random page from a random book of Osho for the first time, it is very much possible that he would put that book down and hate him for the rest of his life. But after reading Osho, everything that I had learnt before made perfect sense to me. And three years after reading Osho, everything that I read from Ramana Maharshi, Nisargadatta Maharaj, Eckhart Tolle and many others made perfect sense to me as well. And let me tell you what Osho did and how he taught. During his initial years, he talked about Jesus; Christians gathered around him and became his disciples. He talked about Krishna; Vaishnavas became his disciples. He talked about sufis; many muslims became his disciples. He talked about yoga; and many people who were inclined towards yoga became his disciples. He did that for every tradition for many years. Then suddenly one day he stopped giving public talks. So much illegal things happened during two years when he was in public silence. Many people committed crimes and many people left. After two years he started to talk again. And his talks were so different this time. Do you know what he said? He said that he couldn't talk directly to people because each person was conditioned according to his own tradition. Nobody listened when he started to talk the first time. So, he went their way and started talking about their traditions. People were attracted. Once he found enough people to pass his teachings to next generation, he wanted to get rid of unwanted people. So, he went silent for two years. Many people left as he expected. He then started criticizing about everyone, including Jesus, Krishna and even Buddha. It is a trick again. But this time no one left! And he could teach them directly and bluntly. This way, he appealed to many people and he also busted many myths. I will talk more about him when I find time. The only way to show my gratitude towards Osho is to keep passing the light he gave me. He saved me from suicide and I want his vision to come true.

The Power of Consciousness Question: How is it that going into something consciously has such a power to reveal all the threads which make up the tangle? Osho: Devageet, the reality is just the opposite. All our tangles in life are created by our unconsciousness, so the moment you become conscious those tangles disappear. It is not the power of consciousness that makes them disappear. It is the power of unconsciousness that creates them. All the tangles of life, of love, of relationship, are created by our unconsciousness. We don’t know what we are doing, and by the time we become aware it is too late. What has been done cannot be undone. Our unconsciousness is very supportive to the ego — they have a co-existence. Coming of consciousness will not only disperse all the tangles, it will also disperse you as an ego. […] Devageet, it is true consciousness has tremendous power, but it is not used in revealing and dispersing the tangles of your life; they simply disappear as you become conscious. Gautam Buddha used to say that when the lights are on and from the windows people can see that the master is awake, thieves don’t come close. When the lights are put off, only then do thieves come close to the house to see whether the master has gone to sleep and it is the right time to enter. He was saying this about consciousness. He used to call sex, greed, lust for power, position, respectability all thieves. They come to you only when they see that there is no light in the man; inside it is all dark. Once you are radiating consciousness and light, those thieves don’t come close to you. But consciousness has its own power. It is simply in the presence of consciousness that tangles disappear. The power is not used for dispersing the tangles and problems; the power is to bring blissfulness. The power is to bring peace, silence, at homeness, at easeness and a tremendous ecstasy, a divine drunkenness. Life becomes for the first time self-oriented; you don’t have to beg from others for anything. Nobody can give you blissfulness; nobody can give you ecstasy. Nobody can give you the sense of immortality and the dance that comes with it. Nobody can give you the silence, which becomes a song in your heart. What can people give to you? In fact, the power of consciousness gives you so much that you become capable of sharing with people. For the first time, you can give to people. They are living in darkness; they haven’t seen any light. They don’t have any idea what a conscious being is. They don’t have any conception, comprehension of the power of consciousness, how many flowers shower, how much fragrance becomes natural to you. You CAN give, and you can give them a taste and you can give them a direction, so they can also find the same power which is dormant in them. A conscious man awakened can help millions of people to move towards the source of joy, real and authentic life, to pure love which knows nothing of hate, which knows nothing of jealousy, which has nothing to do with body and biology — which is just a spiritual communion, a feeling of deep compassion for your innermost being. Yes, the power of consciousness gives you many things. The treasure is inexhaustible, but your problems and tangles have been created by unconsciousness — for them no power is needed, just the presence of consciousness is enough. -OSHO From The Invitation, Chapter 24

Yes, it happens... Do you know that it was kind of gradual for me too?. It went on for a period of three months, but those three months passed as if it was just a moment.. Did you ask yourself why Osho and Ramana Maharshi also said the same thing as I did? Are you saying that Osho and Ramana Maharshi were teaching things in the wrong way? I already told you. Realizing the truth is one thing; guiding others is different.. When guiding others, it is very important to keep in mind about the traps and pitfalls.. There have been teachers who always used absolute terminology, but it was not helpful to everyone.. But I don't associate myself with words like 'teacher' etc.. I don't see myself as one. I also know that It will turn off people. At least as of now, I don't have a need to do that. What I usually do is explain a few things to people and point them to other Gurus.

Thank you.. Yeah, @Shin and I are partners.. And he is my joke Guru in this forum

Yep, I know I don't write the same thing the same way every time.. There was a reason why I opened this thread.. It was meant for a few people and I know why this has to be said. I may say totally contradictory to what I said to another person if I know it would help him. That's why I am always insisting on not to make any assumptions.. Not at all!

Scientists are not aliens.. Read this: https://www.quora.com/Is-enlightenment-a-controlled-mental-state-or-disorder-in-the-eyes-of-the-scientific-community/answer/Shanmugam-P-12

There is a machine to understand women's language. You can try that.. Very soon Google translate is planning to adopt the same concept. And this explains why there are not many women gurus for enlightenment.

@SOUL I know you were raising the same objection that @Stardog is raising.. And I guess I didn't clarify it properly yet.. @Nahm As I said earlier, I will clarify this clearly.. I think you are all familiar with absolute and the relative... If it is clearly understood, there would not be such a question...In fact, it is really not something complicated. I don't know why it was made to look complicated by you guys.. I see that sometimes people get so obsessed with speaking in absolute terminology.. If someone asks me 'Who are you'?, I can't always say 'I am the truth' even though it is true. In the absolute terms, everyone is already enlightened. In fact, in the absolute terms, there is no 'everyone'... In fact, in the absolute terms, there cannot be 'terms' at all, because the absolute truth cannot be said in words.. As Lao Tzu said, the truth that is expressed in words is not the truth at all. .......................................................... Now let me come to the part 'you are either enlightened or not enlightened'.. (Nahm, this is what I meant by the word 'binary') In purely relative terms, a person can be either enlightened or not enlightened. And this is true. Relatively speaking, Buddha was enlightened. But Donald Trump is not (as far as we know) .. Relatively speaking, Buddha was not enlightened when he was a prince; But Buddha was enlightened when he gave his first discourse.. And there is a reason why so much insistence on the fact that ‘You are either enlightened or not enlightened’ . It has been always said that an unenlightened person trying to teach another unenlightened person is like a blind man leading another blind man. Only when a person is really enlightened, he knows what it is. It is only said to stop others from teaching enlightenment. In spite of this, so much corruption has already happened. It has created millions of myths about enlightenment and non-duality. So, what I have conveyed in this thread is actually a very simple thing. ............................................................ A note: Don't be obsessed with using absolute terminology. When someone asks 'Where do you live?', you can't say 'at present moment' all the time.

The school of Samkhya and the School of Yoga (as per Patanjali Yoga sutras) are the same, except that Yoga has a concept of a personal God(Ishvara). Samkhya is the oldest school of thought in India. But all the concepts that is in Samkhya are already in Vedanta and Yoga because they all evolved later as different schools. I have explained more about the history in my book.

@Nahm Thank you for your detailed feedback.. .. Glad to hear all that.

@MarkusSweden It is certainly not like the way you understand.... Of course, everything has its importance in relative reality... But this is a beginner's question though and words can be very tricky

It is actually a fucking game:

Everything happens the way it is supposed to happen. I mess with nothing.. It is like a synchronization with the orchestra of the existence...

Without you, the forum will probably be dead serious.. And actually, laughter and spirituality are very much connected.. Osho made people laugh every now and then with dirty jokes so that there is no seriousness. Being so serious and feeling so heavy in the head is a danger in the spiritual path..

@Nahm sure.. :) But please finish those few pages before you share the experience...

Glad to hear that... Thank you

@Nahm I will clarify a few things in my next post.. Time for bed.. It is early morning in India but I work in night shift. But I will keep this thread alive. It was a very interesting and humorous day though..

@Nahm You have my book right? There is a whole chapter which is about my spiritual journey... .

oh my God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't know what to say... I should have first defined the words 'binary', 'duality', 'experience'.... No!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There has been a Great misunderstanding... @SOUL thank you for your time.. Have a great day!

Sometimes I wonder whether a lot of people in this forum are using the word 'enlightenment' itself in a different meaning.. Enlightenment is not - becoming more intelligent, wise, knowing a lot of information about everything, telepathy, telekinesis, psychology, trying to find the secrets behind the origin of the universe etc, UFO's,... I suspect if there has been a huge misunderstanding.. I will give you some clues: Buddha, Ramana Maharshi, Nisargadatta Maharaj One more clue: Meditation