Shanmugam

You are not just meditating. You are also getting insights by reading. Reading what a realized person has written or spoken replaces your need to contemplate on certain things while still living in duality. My focus is not mainly on sitting meditations. I have been suggesting witnessing meditation as something which can be integrated into daily life. But to understand witnessing and also to do it more effectively, you certainly need sitting meditations. I think I have covered this theme in as many places as possible.

@Saumaya Yeah, it took some work @Ether Kindly explore my blog. As you read more, you may understand. @Nahm thank you for your feedback. I have added a few points in the disclaimer section.

you are welcome

There seems to be a lot of confusion in the definition of ego. So, in this post, I want to give you a clear definition of what ego is, when it is mentioned along with spiritual enlightenment. This definition is consistent with almost all schools of East. First of all, ego is a loose and casual translation of the word ahamkara, which is also referred to dehatma buddhi, or aham vritti. This is little different from what the English word 'ego' actually means. Ahamkara is just identifying yourself with everything that is witnessed by you, including your body, your thoughts, experiences, memories etc. Ahamkara is actually a mental modification which causes the sense of separation. For most of the people in their daily experience, they experientially feel that they are different from the rest of the world. This sense exists both in body and mind. This sense of separation creates an illusory entity which assumes itself to be a doer of actions, thinker of thoughts and the experiencer of experiences. This entity is called ahamkara or ego as it is translated. This assumes itself as the first person and divides the rest of the world into second and third persons. This is what we call as duality. This sense of separation is also what causes craving for fulfillment and fear of destruction. Once a person is liberated, this sense of independent and separate existence is completely removed. Just as a person experientially felt that he was separate from the world, he now experientially feels and knows that he is no longer separate. Even after liberation there is a subtle 'I' thought which only serves the liberated man to function in this world. In spite of this subtle 'i' thought, he no longer feels in his experience that he is separate from the reality.

Dear all, I know there are many people in this forum who are interested in Kriya Yoga. I usually don't recommend Kriya yoga because of certain pitfalls. But I recently came across an author, who prefers to stay anonymous about his identity. We exchanged a few emails and also our books. I already opened a thread regarding that author in this forum before: I didn't want to recommend the book before actually reading it. Just now I finished reading his book and I must say that this book is a must-read for anyone who is into Kriya yoga. It certainly busts a lot of myths regarding kriya yoga. As the author has stated in his book, many people are stuck with the techniques and they don't really let go of those techniques. I really like the story of kriya yogi that the book ends with; it illustrates the point of the book very well. I will certainly recommend this book to anyone who is into yoga. The book is clear, easy to understand, less complicated than many other books regarding Yoga and puts a lot of emphases on the After-Effect-Poise of Kriya, which is pretty similar to the 'witnessing' practice that I was doing; in fact, it is essentially the same thing: staying as the witness! A couple of quotes from his book: The author has recommended many free resources where you can learn authentic kriya yoga as taught by Lahiri Mahasaya. He has reviewed and even exposed many organizations which teach kriya yoga. So, if you are seriously into kriya yoga, then don't miss this book. Here is the link to the book: https://www.amazon.com/Kriya-Yoga-Exposed-Organizations-Explanation-ebook/dp/B0764HP5L8

stop thinking about 'not having thoughts'...

ok good So, are you learning from a guru? What practices are you doing? And what books have you been reading?

Your reply changes every time.. do you notice it? First you said: I'm not really seeking enlightenment. I'm just messing around because I have a lot of free time The second time you said: I'm seeking enlightenment, but I'm not desperate for it. And now, you are saying: I am SERIOUSLY walking the spiritual path. I practice Yoga 24/7. This is the first time you are saying that you are seriously walking on the spiritual path. I was talking about how I was when I was 10 years old. The underlying message here is, you are not conscious of the sub-conscious tendencies of your mind. I can see what level your are at more clearly that how you yourself can see it..Because, I have been on the same road and I have traveled the same road that you are travelling now. There are many things which you can only realize at later point of time, as you progress more in the path. Deep, you have a conceptual understanding of what enlightenment is and you are trying to fit me into your own understanding of enlightenment... I can see this very clearly. But you don't... I can't prove it to you. The only thing that I can suggest is to have some humility... Did you read the excerpt from Osho's talks? What message did you get from that?

@Nahm ... I know @Deep is not ready to listen to what I am saying.. He is actually focused on giving me and everyone else some advice... So I am just quoting another man who taught me; probably, he will listen to him....

Dear @Deep I don't expect you to listen to me; but listen to Osho, will you? This is just a request from a friend.. . Here is an excerpt from one of the talks given by Osho. Read this slowly, open-mindedly and completely: Excerpt from 'The Rebel' by Osho Questioner: MASTER, CAN WE HELP EACH OTHER? CAN I BE HELPFUL TO SOMEONE, CAN SOMEONE HELP ME? IS BECOMING AFLAME THE ONLY WAY TO BE REALLY HELPFUL? PLEASE, THROW SOME LIGHT. Osho: Sarjano, the blind cannot help the blind. Those who are groping in darkness cannot lead others to light. Those who don't know immortality cannot help others to drop the fear of death. Those who are not living totally and intensely, whose song is not yet of the heart, whose smile is only a painted smile on the lips, cannot help others to be authentic and sincere. Those who are hypocrites, pretenders, cannot help others to be honest. Those who are not yet themselves, know nothing about themselves, have no idea of their individuality, who are still lost in their personality which is fake and created by the society, cannot help anybody else to attain individuality. Even with all good intentions, it is simply not possible. If your flame of life is not burning, how can you make the unlit lamps of others aflame? You have to be aflame, Sarjano; only then can you put others on fire. This is what I mean by being a rebel: you have to be rebellious, then you can spread rebellion all around you. If you are on fire, aflame, you can create a wildfire which goes faraway beyond your vision. But first you have to be aflame. The blind man leading another blind man... Kabir says both fall into the well. His original words are: ANDHA ANDHAM THELIA DONO KOOP PADANT. "The blind led the blind and both have fallen into the well." You have to have eyes to lead the blind to a physician -- there is no other way. You can only share with others that which you have got: if you are miserable, you will share your misery. When two miserable persons are together the misery is not only doubled, it is multiplied. The same is true about your blissfulness, the same is true about your rebelliousness, the same is true about all experiences. Whatever you want the world to be, you will have to be a model first. You have to pass through a fire test to prove your philosophy of life by your example. You cannot just go on arguing about it. Reasoning and argument will not help; only your experience can give to others the taste of love, of meditation, of silence, of rebelliousness, of religion. Before you have experienced, never try to help anybody -- because you will simply mess up the other person more. They are messed up already. Centuries of heritage have been messing up everybody. It will be very kind of you not to help, because it is going to be dangerous; your help will be very risky for the other person. First travel the path, know perfectly well where it leads -- only then can you hold the hands of others and take them on the path. An American Jewish visitor in Russia says to his guide, "In America I can say that Ronald Reagan is an idiot and nothing would happen to me." The guide says, "You can say that in Russia and they will give you a medal." It is very difficult in this world to communicate. You have to learn how to communicate your experiences so that what reaches others is exactly what you want to say; otherwise you may be thinking of sharing nectar and it may turn into poison in their lives. They are poisoned enough already! It is better to first cleanse yourself, make your eyes more transparent so that you can see better. Perhaps -- then too, perhaps -- you may be able to help others. The desire is good, but good does not happen just from good desires. The ancient saying is that the way to hell is paved with good intentions. There are millions of people who are helping with good intentions, advising others -- not even bothering about the simple fact that they don't follow their own advice. But just the joy of advising is so much... who cares whether I follow my own advice or not? The joy of advising others is a very subtle, egoistic joy. The person you are advising becomes ignorant; you become knowledgeable. Advice is the only thing in the world which everybody gives and nobody takes; and it is good that nobody takes it because it is given by people who know nothing -- although there is no bad intention behind it. You are asking a very compassionate question -- but in the very nature of things, if you want to change the world, you have to change yourself first. The revolution must come to you first. Only then can you radiate it into others' hearts. First the dance must happen to you, and then you will see a miracle: that others have started dancing too. The dance is catching; so is love, so is gratitude, so is religiousness, so is rebellion -- they are all contagious. But first you must have the flame that you want to see in others' eyes.

Deep, I am not a guru... I am just pointing out your tendency to advice everyone and tell them what they should do, when you yourself haven't seriously considered walking on the spiritual path. I repeat, you only know what you read in some books... And you just told me what I should do. I don't need somebody else's certificate for my transformation. Whether someone believes in what I say or not, whether someone disagrees with me or not doesn't really matter. I am only interested in communicating the truth and I will be harsh if I think that it is really needed. And I remind you what I said in another post: The first step in the spiritual path is realizing that you don't know. (remember, you might have read books and understood what is said there; that doesn't mean you know)... I was exactly like you when I was 10 years old. I had read everything about enlightenment that I can lay my hands on. I used to impress people by talking about ashtanga yoga and samadhi etc when I was only 10 years old... that was in 1993.And I was full of myself . But only in 2002, I realized that I knew nothing.. And only in 2014, there was actually a transformation. Your argument sounds like a blindman arguing about colors with someone who is not blind. Once, I was a blind man too.. You are not realizing that you are arguing with a mask or a persona that is reflected in your mind..

This is going to be a thread dedicated to Osho.. I will be posting excerpts and answers by Osho to specific questions that will shock your mind, blow your concepts off, silence your mind, turn your look inwards, hit your ego and more... Let me start with an excerpt that I enjoyed reading today. OSHO, I KEEP MEETING PEOPLE WHO CAN SEE AURAS, AND I FEEL I AM MISSING. WHAT CAN I DO TO SHARE THIS SIGHT? Anand Buddha, God is not an experience. No experience as such is spiritual; all experiences are mind games. Beware of it. Whatsoever can be seen will be part of the illusory world. The seer is the truth, not the seen. You can see auras and you can see angels and you can see kundalini rising and you can see inner lights — but they are all seen. They are not you. The seer is the witness, and only the witness is the truth. All else is a dream. And there are worldly dreams and there are other-worldly dreams; there are materialistic dreams and there are spiritualistic dreams. One thing has to be remembered always, that whatsoever is seen is worthless — even if it is God. The God that is seen is worthless. When all experiences disappear and you are left utterly alone, nothing to see, only emptiness in the hands, no experience at all, then suddenly you realize yourself. Then you turn upon yourself, then you fall into your source. And that is not an experience, it is a realization. That is the difference between the words “experience” and “realization”. It is not that you have seen something, experienced something. Now you know who you are. The great Sufi mystic Maghrebi says, Don’t speak to us of visions and miracles, for we have long ago transcended such things. We saw them all to be illusion and dreams, and dauntlessly we passed beyond them. Anand Buddha, you will meet many people here who will go on playing these games. They are simply wasting their time. Avoid their company. I am going to attract all kinds of people, and particularly the people who are interested in spiritualism. They will bring all their diseases here. They will talk nonsense — they will talk about miracles, psychic experiences. And naturally, when somebody talks about such things, you start feeling as if you are missing. You are not missing a thing, because he is only dreaming. But he can create this feeling in you, that you are lacking something, that your growth is not going well, that you are not growing as fast as you should grow. He will create in you the feeling of inferiority, and that is dangerous. Once you start feeling inferior you become sad, depressed, you carry a heavy weight on your chest; and that will become a hindrance in your growth. And every possibility is there that if you desire you will start seeing these things. Desire creates dreams. If you start thinking that you are missing, soon your mind will project. The mind is always ready to give you anything that you desire, and particularly such things. If you desire money it will be difficult because it is not only a question of your own mind. If you desire to become the president of a country it may not be easy because there may be much competition. But if you want to see auras there is no competition, and nobody can hinder you, and you are not taking somebody else’s auras; you are creating your own. It is a private, idiotic world. This is the meaning of the word “idiot”: it means having a private world of one’s own experiences which do not collaborate with reality. I know a few people are here; they enjoy a kind of leadership because they can gather a few people around themselves. They start talking about esoteric things. And whenever somebody talks about esoteric things, hidden truths that you are not aware of, he enjoys being a knower and he reduces you to an ignorant person. It hurts. Soon you will also start talking and reading such nonsense books, and they are available in abundance. Here, you are not to be with me to see auras, or to see lights, or to see kundalini energy rising, or the chakras opening. I am trying to hammer this truth into your heart continuously, that the only thing worth attaining is enlightenment, is nirvana, is the realization of who you are. Everything else has to be bypassed. And these things come on the way. The mind tries to allure you to the very end. It gives beautiful psychedelic experiences, very colorful, enchanting. One can get stuck with them. LSD is nothing. If you go on working on your being you will find far deeper, far profounder-appearing experiences happening to you which no LSD can release. And then the desire is to cling to them, and that very desire keeps you away from the ultimate truth. For the ultimate truth, everything has to be sacrificed, all so-called spiritual experiences, esoteric knowledge, miracles. Everything has to be dropped. One has to come to the ultimate experience — which is not an experience…. Language is inadequate to express it; that’s why it is called an “experience”. It is not an experience, because in experience there is a division of the experiencer and the experienced, and in this experience, the ultimate, there is no division. You are the knower, you are the known, you are the seer, you are the seen, you are the experiencer, you are the experienced — only you are. That absolute, still point of pure existence, that is the goal. All else has to be sacrificed for it. Beware of such things. - The Secret - 14

Yes...

Yeah.. the sentence has to end with "It amounts to nothing"... Otherwise it won't sound like you are talking non-duality..

Do you even know the definition of a cult? What @egoless said is totally anticult! He is saying not to blindly repeat what other teachers say, speak from your own experience, be a real seeker and admit 'I don't know' if you don't know something.. Does that sound like cult to you? It is the total opposite of the word 'cult'...

good man

That's the only possible way you can reply now.. I expected this.. "If I can't afford to be wrong, if I don't want to accept that I am wrong, then I can bring in the classic non-duality statement and say 'after all everything is a dream'".... That's a good idea man

Have you actually read Buddha or Osho.. Mahavira was contemporary of Buddha. Buddha criticised him and even made fun of him, because Mahavira was advocating extreme asceticism... And Osho has harshly criticized all the fake ones claiming to be gurus.. Have you read the Bible story of Jesus beating people in the temple? Sorry.. These people do not work according to your expectations or imaginations. In fact, one advantage of enlightenment is that you can put any kind of mask you want.. You can even wear a mask of conman. I am just saying the plain truth I have seen. It may appear like a war or argument to you, but this is how I speak when people distort the truth in front me.. I don't expect you to believe in any shit.. But be open minded and just consider the possibility that the people that I am replying to can be wrong. I will repeat what I have been saying here: enlightenment is end of seeking and suffering; so there cannot be any seeking for a higher level after enlightenment.. Period.. Whether you believe me or not, whether you agree or disagree with me, whether you make fun of it or criticize it doesn't matter. It will not change what is true... And I still stand by what I said..this forum is turning into a cult..

Yes.. I had quoted from Ashtavakra Gita in this same thread. Those verses closely reflect what it is: 17.17 The liberated one neither avoids experience nor craves it. He enjoys what comes and what does not. 18.56 Though pleased he is not pleasured; though pained he does not suffer. This wonderful state is understood only by those like him.

Actually, I agree that there should not be a dependency to a guru. But people need guidance anyway. It doesn't have to be an infallible and the only guru's guidance. It is just a guidance that a person can get from other spiritual friends who are far ahead in the path. This understanding is exactly what is missing in some people here... They don't think that it is possible to be completely free from psychological time. In fact, enlightenment has been redefined here into the exact opposite of what it actually is.. A typical human being's thought process is always regarding a journey from 'A' to 'B'.. A spiritual path also begins this way. But they have concluded that this is all enlightenment is all about... For them, it is a never ending journey from 'A' to 'B'... Dear friends, please wake up.. Enlightenment is completely breaking out of the psychological movement from A to B; It is totally opposite of what you have been thinking...

I just can't stop laughing after seeing something really funny... By saying whatever you have said so far, you are the one who says the following: Osho was wrong, Ramana Maharshi was wrong, Nisargadatta was wrong, Buddha was wrong, Shankara was wrong, even Sadhguru is wrong (because he also says enlightenment is binary and paranormal powers are distractions),Eckhart Tolle is wrong, Ashtavakra was wrong and about 1000 other people who have said the same thing are wrong! But you and Leo are right! This is exactly what you are implying... Instead of defending yourself, just think about what you are saying buddy... It is for your own good. You people have redefined the word 'enlightenment to suit your own personal desires. That gives me enough reason to say that this forum is becoming a cult.

Nope... As long as you are thinking that 'paranormal' and 'aliens probing you' has got something to do with spiritual enlightenment, I will be reminding you again and again that it is not true... Either ignore me or ban me.. Anyway, you are interpreting whatever I said with your own ideas about me... Your inclusion of that statement 'you’re enlightened, no one else is.' indicates that very well .. I would suggest reading Ramana Maharshi, Nisargadatta Maharaj and J.Krishnamurti. But if you want to fool yourself by doing mental masturbation and playing with words with non-dual statements, then go ahead...

No .. I was typing a reply to @Deep . I read your post only after posting my reply but I did notice the notifications..

Yeah, I made a quick assumption about you as a 'cult member'... Probably you are not. But I still see this forum as something that is going to become a cult sooner or later. That is what I meant when I said that it is moving towards becoming a cult. Not really sure what you mean by multiple facets of truth.. There are multiple expressions of truth which is illustrated in the story of blindmen and the elephant. In my spiritual path, I have just realized illusions as illusions. Once the illusion is gone, whatever that is left shines as truth. But what I am objecting to is really different. There is an implication by many members in this forum; they seem to say that you have to be seeking for 'higher' and 'deeper' states of consciousness throughout your life.. In other words, it can be only understood as 'there is no such thing as enlightenment'... So, at least for me, I am pretty sure that forum members are suffering from wrong guidance. In fact, the purpose of my posts are not properly understood here... I am not posting things to prove something or to argue... I am just trying to help. When people are totally misguided, I don't think I can stop posting...

@Deep Very good.. .. thats actually a pretty good decision That is a bold claim.. Good luck with that! Actually, it is better if you stay away from this forum. Because, you are right, you will end up in more confusion and more mental masturbation, based on how this forum is trending. So, your decision is right here. Not really sure what kind of experience you are talking about. If you explain a little bit about your experience, I can say something..But I still remember what you said in one of your posts here: And this is what you said in one of the posts: 'I'm not really seeking enlightenment. I'm just messing around because I have a lot of free time'...If someone says he is not seeking enlightenment, it only means two things: 1)His seeking has ended (he is enlightened) 2) He still has no concrete idea or even interest to pursue a spiritual path. So which one of the above is your case? Not everything in your mind happens with your conscious awareness. If that was the case, then everyone can be enlightened so easily. The reason why I even brought it up is because, it is very important to pay attention to your thought process objectively, when it comes to walking on the spiritual path. Do you think you can really read my intentions by just reading my words? Do you think that the words I have typed here somehow conveys the way I experience the reality? If you yourself are not enlightened, do you really think that you have the measuring scale to determine if someone is enlightened? My posts are not coming from the desire to be right. It is very easy to interpret it that way. I was just having an email conversation with a seeker today. And he asked me a question regarding the purpose behind my critical posts about some gurus. I will just paste my reply here; It answers the question you have asked: this question has a wrong assumption that my life is still driven by a personal purpose or a self-agenda. But all I know is, I do whatever that is required this moment. So, when I look at what happened in the past 3 years, one thing led to another and I finally ended up criticizing him, writing a book and maintaining a blog. I never thought that all this would happen and I couldn't have done all this before the transformation. Just think about a simple human nature. You see a person in the street who seems to have lost his way. He wants to go to 5th street in your neighborhood but he seems to be having trouble. A natural response of any human being here (who knows that neighborhood very well) is to ask him where he wants to go and guide him. Let us say you tell him "you are in the wrong place, 5th street is not here, you have to walk in the opposite direction and cross two more streets'; And the person replies, 'I think you must be wrong then. Because a person who knows this neighborhood in and out told me that 5th street is somewhere here'... What will you do here? You seem to be the only person who can help him. And you can't just walk away without telling him that the other person was wrong. You don't have to. I never asked anyone to believe in what I say. I only suggest two things: 1)open-mindedness 2)Skepticism My suggestion was only this, and I am stating this for the third time: Don't come to any conclusions yet. Because the nature of a human life itself is such that his conclusions get proved to be wrong again and again; and this happens a million times in the spiritual path. So, I am just telling you to proceed with an attitude of 'I don't know'... I usually remember the posts of a few members in this forum. And I can pretty much see how their thought process towards the whole thing is going. I still suspect that whatever you are saying is just 'bookish'... But let me tell you one thing if you are not aware: Enlightenment is pretty much a death. It is a psychological death that you have to go through... The words like kundalini, Brahman, Atman, God etc can be deceiving to the human mind and give hopes to the ego as if there is going to be some kind of achievement. But enlightenment is really not an achievement. Spiritual path is a game of losing. It is actually the most ordinary thing in the world. Just as a reminder, let me also quote what I told you in the other thread you created long back: "Don't come to conclusions yet... There is a long way to go.. The only sin that you can commit on the spiritual path is to coming to conclusions.. I am using the word 'sin' just to make a point, by the way. Don't conclude anything.. This is a rule of thumb you need to remember when it comes to spiritual path. You will come across many contradictions and confusions as you proceed further. There will be hundreds of moments when you will be tempted to conclude you are enlightened; and there will be hundreds of moments when you will be tempted to conclude that enlightenment is bullshit... You need to keep going non-stop, with no conclusions at all! Truth, God, Brahman, Atman, Self, Absolute, Tao etc are just different words that mean the same... It is just your true nature hidden behind the veil of ignorance." Finally, let me give you my comments on what you said in that same thread.. First, let me quote what you said: First of all, ideas about enlightenment are just ideas. The real question to ask here is 'Why do you want enlightenment? What are you actually seeking?' Seeking is actually venturing into the unknown. You are not sure what the end goal is, but all you know is that you are still seeking. That is all a seeker can really say until he is enlightened. Everything else you say are just 'ideas' that you pick up from books and other people. Enlightenment is not about just controlling the mind... Enlightenment is in one way like a peak where everything converges. You can't just define it in a paragraph... But the monkey mind indeed gets dissolved; it doesn't mean that there is a 'you' who has controlled it.. In fact, everything that you said in your message is actually true about enlightenment in some sense... But the first step in the spiritual path is, realizing that you don't know...