SOUL

Being at peace with what may be swirling around us whether it be chaos or order and is probably both is not an abstinence from any turmoil or an immersion in tranquility.

Why do you believe I listened to Leo in the first place, or at all.... ever... or that anyone has? Hm? Although, from your own post I can clearly see you are critical of people who don't do as you do, this self righteous judgment has positioned your own preferences not just as superior method but a moral superiority because your ways, you ironically justify in your mind as concept, are truth and others are false. You even are projecting judgment onto something that is naturally without a moral judgment, emotions and thoughts, again lifting your own preference up as better than other's preferences. Contrary to the lololols you use as a shield to protect your own ego it's you who take your preferred way very seriously, otherwise you wouldn't have lashed out in such a chastising and condemning manner at others who may not share it, as far as you can perceive it to be. But hey....what do I know? I'm just jerkin around the circle...right?

Something being an illusion and something not existing are not the same thing but are confused as the same thing by many spiritualists. Attempting to understand is one of the most significant stumbling blocks to enlightenment, just accepting what is as it is is a cornerstone to exercising our awareness of being present in the moment.

Aho

It helps me exercise my patience with people stuck in repetitive monkey mind nonsense.

Well, seeking "mastery" of any sort with regard to inner work is a trap, although exercising awareness in the present moment can influence emotional response in a healthy way. Becoming aware of emotional triggers and associations is the initial step and then creating new patterns in place of the old ones will be an effective way in transforming your emotional landscape.

@Nahm It could even be said that "no self" is a misnomer too because the qualifier of "not existing" is placed on the self by saying no self to explain the transcending of self which could be better characterized as being aware unconditionally.... as in without the conditions of self to limit our awareness or our being. The qualifier of unconditional isn't on the self, it's on awareness and describing what we perceive in transcending self.

@Dodo All too often calling something a paradox is the spiritual bypass response that is abused by people who they themselves haven't experienced the state of wholeness that is perceived in transcending the self so employ it in avoiding actual contradictions. Once someone experiences that transcending of self this becomes clear, there is no unconditional qualifier on love to describe it, there is just love and people who embrace love unconditionally. The qualifier is expressed through us, not on love, so there's no paradox or contradiction.

@Mondsee There is no such thing as unconditional love because unconditional is a condition....

What if the self does exist...........................and is an illusion.

If one seeks to do both, develop the ego and transcend it, it isn't as contradictory as it would seem, what it entails is to develop the ego in such a way that it is conducive to transcending it.

The alpha of an a-type doesn't stand for asshole or angry, in fact it's someone trying to be something they aren't that makes them angry or an asshole when it doesn't work out for them. An alpha is strong and a leader, not a domineering hostile screamer, and a beta doesn't mean someone is a pussy or weak, but they are comfortable being who they are so not have to pretend to be something they aren't.

There is a difference between accepting thoughts and believing thoughts. The mind thinks, it's what it does naturally and by accepting that the mind thinks doesn't mean we have to believe the thoughts that come to mind.

What's that saying? Before enlightenment chop wood carry water, after enlightenment chop wood carry water. The 'egoic' or egocentric aspect is an unseen pattern, it's an inner entanglement in the mind that is most revealed to us through being aware of it and it's effects in our consciousness. Although, it may be apparent to others when someone is behaving out of an egoic pattern and laden with it;s entanglements, especially if the others are being aware so have a measure of clarity in perception.

I could read it a million times and it doesn't change that it's being manipulative, I guess you may be unaware of how much so it is.

@Joseph Maynor Yes, in a certain way the clinginess of the ego becomes less clingy, the craves become less cravey and the vice of identifying is less potent. Another facet of this is in how everything gets filtered through the lens of the ego is how we view our circumstances but as we choose not to accept the ego version of the situation the veil of it becomes less opaque and more transparent.

@Joseph Maynor I really appreciate a couple of your observations about ego in relation to happiness you expressed elsewhere and now with a similar idea here although allow me offer another way to view it. Ego may not grow or shrink in size or relative strength in that way but as we habituate ourselves to less egocentric patterns the ego eventually becomes less egotistical about it's own existence because it uses our experience to form it's identity. It just adheres to what we give it and if we give it less ego centered experience, it becomes less egocentric with it's manifestations in our mind. Does that make any sense to you?

@Prabhaker I apologize for my harsh tones towards you earlier, I am not sorry about the message, that remains the same, I think it's manipulating to tell someone they are born "diseased" and to then suggest the only way to be saved or heal from it is to believe the dogmatic beliefs of a religion or specific form of spirituality. So, I really do apologize about my accusatory tone, I wasn't really meaning to accuse you per se and I don't think you actually do it to justify your ego beliefs but to present my view I chose to use it with you and I should not have. I hope my words didn't hurt or harm you in any way... of course if you are egoless no selfing then it shouldn't have but I apologize anyway. Peace to you.

@Loreena That's good to hear though I was addressing the comment in general terms, this forum doesn't belong to solely eastern spirituality and nobody should be told to leave if they don't wish to adopt those beliefs.

Doubling down on a dogmatic belief doesn't make it valid.... it's just a belief. It's one that is built on the premise there is something wrong with us for just being us, that our naturally occurring human existence itself is diseased and this is just manipulating others with the idea that your dogmatic beliefs can save us from it. Here's an alternative perspective you may consider, it's based in actual human experience for it's premise. We are born an awake being, simply aware with virtually no ego and very little self since we...well, are just born. Then as we grow over a number of years our self conscious is constructed by our mind as a naturally occurring mechanism and that includes as part of it an ego. So whether the ego/self is healthy or unhealthy depends on what was put into it while it is being constructed by the mind and continually goes through changes as more and more experience happens. It can also be intentionally transformed by us through inner work. It definitely could be said that most if not virtually all common conditioning that happens induces a sort of zombie mind even before we have fully matured. Although to conflate the two, the naturally occurring mechanism in our mind and what gets put into that mind which is used to construct the ego/self, is itself an unaware perspective. It would be like calling a car broken and blaming it for the actions of a bad driver. A dog isn't diseased for just being a dog and a human isn't diseased for just being human. It may be a popular view with many "eastern" spiritualists to believe as you do but popularity doesn't validate it either. Ironically, this "diseased" concept is just some unhealthy conditioning you are attempting to project onto others in hopes they will believe it, too and that just bolsters your own ego sense of justification in believing it yourself. Yes, I do see the confusion that eastern spirituality creates in the people who believe it.

Yes, it's just a fad that's been going on for thousands of years....and his opinion of it is a fart in a tornado.

This type of thinking reminds me of the western religious concept that we are born sinful and is just as much the manipulative dogmatic belief. Your telling someone to leave the forum if they have a differing view because it only belongs to the religious rhetoric that you embrace? Wow, that's pretty egoic.

Whatever you want to call the phenomena it doesn't matter to me but I am living proof that through the present moment our life experience can transform the whole self....Yes, ego included because all of it is the product of experience. It's as simple as the primitive axiom of monkey see monkey do but a little more complicated in how we express it.

There is only one condition of unconditional happiness, it's being happy. The mechanism to creating fulfillment in my experience is using the present moment to sow seeds of a lasting sense of fulfillment through finding appreciation in life as it unfolds.