SOUL

The self conscious is self aware from a self preservation perspective biologically and is causal which includes all involuntary actions, the ego is the 'interface' between the self conscious and our present moment awareness, which is the 'voluntary' part of our consciousness and the ego's job is to convince us to behave voluntarily on behalf of the self conscious impulses. This is where the freedom in willful action comes in, we can either act on what the ego influences us to or we can not.The ego creates a compelling narrative, a story to influence us into action. When we were simple primitive creatures it was primitive but as we evolved into complex social creatures it's devices evolved into a complex narrative along with it. Although we can bypass the story altogether and act on primitive impulse or not, what is voluntary is still voluntary.

I don't understand how an individual can simultaneously hold the belief that enlightenment exists and free will doesn't. Also, 'influence' isn't the same thing as 'force' but it seems some people think they are.

With one eye open.... the third eye.

Pay no mind to what the naysayers say for they say their nay because they know no other way. Beyond the histrionics of your post there is wisdom in your message.... Embracing the simplicity of just being in the present is rarely 'enough' to entertain the ego's need for validation but if you can be at peace and fulfilled in just being present in life you experience an awakening that transcends all the "enlightenment" rhetoric.

@spicy_pickles Your healing is right now, your peace(happiness/joy/fulfillment) is right now. As long as you don't intend to hurt anyone else even though you can't control whether someone feels hurt, it's not really a matter of what's right or wrong. Do what you have to do to realize that healing, to be that peace. It's not all that beneficial to see yourself as broken, that's the healing that I refer to, it's not broken, just evolving and being at peace with where you are at presently even if you are working on yourself. It's kind of a paradox to be contented with present state of being and working on ourselves simultaneously but that's the way it is. We cannot cease to change, it's inevitable, although we can have influence with the change that happens, that's the work we do. I also found myself in a relationship I realized wasn't one to last too much longer but I stayed in it because I thought that the peace I had could be part of the process that they needed to heal their own suffering. Not saying that's like your situation but what I learned is that I cannot help someone do something they didn't want for themselves and in the mean time the peace I had was tested. I still had the peace in mind but the stress manifested in other ways in my body, I wasn't as healthy, all sorts of nagging ailments. My finances and home life were hindered, too. At the time I thought this was just a way to see if I really could be at peace regardless of the ups and downs of life, it's inner peace after all, not dependent on external circumstance but eventually I had to move on, it just wasn't healthy. I cannot advise you to stay or go, how long or soon or what to do about it but will say do keep to your inner work and find peace now... be at peace right now in this moment, every moment. The details of the how it works out will reveal themselves in time and if you are doing the inner work you will recognize them in that moment. Peace.

@LaucherJunge The middle way isn't just an alternative to the two sides, it's all three of them and also none of them by not perceiving them as separate, so is unity.

Yes, it is called riding the bus.

When I didn't have peace I sought it, now I am at peace with life, so "seek" is just a word I chose to describe the inner process of letting go of the self created suffering caused by chasing knowledge and instead just be at peace. Awareness is an inner observer so when I use 'seek' it is in the spirit of awareness observing this change in my being. You shouldn't let one word distract you as much as it did, I could pick apart your words but they are just words and I understand how words often fall short of expressing the experience of awareness. You chose "realize", maybe I should tell you that you don't have to realize anything, that your realizing is keeping you from it so stop it, you should just "be" it. Then you will find another word to tell me I shouldn't "be" it, that my "being" it is keeping me from it so I should stop "being" it..... then another word....and another word...... and another word completely missing the point of the experience in awareness we are referring instead getting distracted by words. Or how about stop stopping it and start starting it... or stop starting it and just be it! We can read anything we want into words even if it's more of a reflection of our own perception than it is the other's experience. Is that enough words for you? Did I choose the 'right' ones?

@Nahm Yes and as soon as it is filtered through the mind in any way, shape or form of idea, concept or word in an attempt to understand or know it is belief and ceases to be it's genuine nature.

.@Nahm All these concepts and words being used are filtered through the prism of the mind. So even to know it is still the mind trying to grasp it in understanding. This is the mind trusting it's own perception which is why as soon as it changes from pure experience in awareness to 'knowing' it becomes belief.

@Nahm It sure does because it goes from experience into a concept that forms a paradigm which is believed by the mind then told to another. We experience in awareness without concepts or words but the mind tries to understand through concepts and communicate with words so it falls from the genuine nature.

... but it moves back into belief when it's told to someone else.

Inner peace isn't about being calm, it's contentment, as in being at peace regardless of the amount of activity going on in life. A lack of inner peace is the source of turmoil that leads to the self caused suffering. The truth with a capital T is just another religion right next to all the others that claim to bring the capital T.

Does does any of this bring Inner Peace, fulfillment and the presence of being now?

@egoless ... and that is your belief.

From the perspective of seeking inner peace and fulfillment these types of discussions are the fuel for self created turmoil. A battle with the word "belief" emblazoned on the sword slices it's way through the mind but at any moment one can lay down that sword and be free from it, the middle way.

I've chosen to seek not knowledge, not understanding and not truth, rather I seek peace, fulfillment and freedom from self created suffering which can be attained and known by anyone and everyone if they so choose it.

I am offering gura deprogramming and exorcism services for any who need to be broken free from the hypnosis of his persona and if this forum is any indication there are quite a few that can definitely use it. PM me with any inquiries or questions hehe

For a simple thing like letting go that was alot of complicated theory and concepts so a little way into it I let go of reading it... worked like a charm.

I use some simple visualizations with much success. A breathing one by breathing out the angst, you may need to visualize the details of the individual pain triggers or you may not and how specific or general is something you can explore and experiment with works for you then breath in a peace, contentment, acceptance and love in whatever visuals suit you. Whenever these painful ideas and emotions show themselves give your hurt 'ego' this visualization 'hug' and it will dissipate in the immediate then cease to rise up in frequency and intensity as time passes. This is something you can do in the moment they arise or you can sit in contemplative meditation to work with it. You may not even have to find out the who, what, why. how or source of the pain, for me just releasing it without identifying with it at all is some of the most effective ways to cease it but this is something you will have to examine to find what works for you. Some use more complex introspection but I use a simple nurturing and comforting like it is a hurt child, it's very effective for me.

You say you don't want to debate beliefs and just wanted to just present your own beliefs but not discuss them? That's what they are, you have beliefs, that emotion leads to "fake action", that "real action promotes growth", that you can even "improve" yourself. Those are all belief paradigms and whether they are accurate, effective or not doesn't change that they are beliefs you have, we all have beliefs. My apologies for the "debate" on your beliefs but you say they are a functional point of view but if the way you are perturbed by any discussion about your beliefs it appears they may be actually kind of dysfunctional. By having a negative perspective towards emotions it seems you may have created a inner struggle with your emotional side that is ready for some healing otherwise discussing it wouldn't disturb you. It appears that is something you can improve on and grow in but it's your inner life and only you have to live with it, not anyone else. I'm at peace with mine and just wanted share my view with you because I thought you may have been open to discussion, again, my apologies if you aren't. Maybe I should move on.

@Ether Becoming more aware of oneself can allow us to see through the misery and suffering we cause within our own consciousness, then cease to do so and be more at peace which in turn can make a more joyful experience here in a turbulent world. Thoughts happen, emotions happens, physical pain happens, impulses and urges happen, these are natural things which don't cease through our lives. The difference is the inner turmoil, that misery and suffering we cause ourselves because of those natural things doesn't have to continue to happen. Whatever path you choose to take it can be with inner turmoil or without it, that is also of your own choosing... so choose wisely.

I eat, poop and sleep, not necessarily in that order but other than that nothing in my life is routine.

It seems you have lumped in law of attraction with visualization but in concept these are two different ideas.

@aurum I agree with what he said about it being a false dichotomy. Another option is that the personal development you envision for yourself is completely divergent from the spiritual work you are doing so you may have to give extra consideration towards what those goals are setting for yourself. It could be they are ones that were given to you by others and those types of worldly expectations may not be a fulfillment of the work that reflects the life you seek to live.