SOUL

Nah, I don't need to know...I don't want to know, I'd rather be than know, being transcends knowing.

Who's asking?

The questions, the answers to the questions, the explanations of the answers to the questions, descriptions about the explanations of the answers to the questions, understanding the descriptions about the explanations of the answers to the questions, the reasons for understanding the descriptions about the explanations of the answers to the questions, knowing the reasons for understanding the descriptions about the explanations of the answers to the questions. Or... just be. It isn't really about not asking the question, it's about not desiring the answers. There is genuine peace in just being.... an unquestionable ontology.

It's just observation, I be as I am and you be whatever you will be, too.

Then why did ya ask?

Whatever it be.

This is why I'm saying we create our spirituality in the way that we view it. The ego may tell us we're trapped and it only becomes a trap if we agree with it. It is in our awareness of it that we aren't ensnared by the ego's conceptualizations and we can create the liberation from that. I recognize you aware this as well so some more choir preaching I guess haha.

Actually, you didn't say anything about traps, all you talked about was unverifiable and checkmarked as true, whatever checkmarked means. Although, I don't view any physical or psychological aspects of my life as a trap and no amount of other people talking about how they view it as a trap makes it one for me because I don't agree with that perspective. Those things may be challenges for me to be at peace and enjoy life but to be honest I didn't really hear them called traps until I got on this forum so maybe you should consider that before you endorse any groupthink concepts.

You are confusing spiritual life with physical life, I understand your confusion, it's common. I cannot prove my joy and peace to you, so it isn't "true"?

Thanks, I appreciate the positive feedback. Your reply was so quick it captured me in an edit.... can you find the word difference? Haha....

@Shanmugam There is no actual determined 'form' to the absolute so whatever we ascribe to it is of our own conception, it is unmanifest potential to be everything and anything while also being the manifest fulfillment of everything and anything so we can find any and every characteristic in it. So in our spirituality if one says there is a trap or pitfall in the path, we create it for our self, if we say there "is" and "isn't" in the work, we create it for our self and if we create a line of separation between anything, we create it for our self, not create it for anyone else, just for our self. Consider this when you conceive of and speak about your spiritual life, by these you are creating your own spiritual life.

People are easily lured in by produced and packaged emotionally triggering mystical sounding enlightenment themed 'stories' conceived and contrived for profit and personal gain to indulge the primitive vices. So be it.

@Shanmugam Did you really just compare Trump to Buddha to 'prove' something? That's hilarious! Haha I cannot speak for anyone else that questioned the obvious dualism in what you are 'teaching' but I am well aware of what you are talking about and why you view it that way. Although, it's not terminology that is being questioned, it's the inability to recognize any other experience other than your own as being valid. The real heart of this discussion is about your insistence that there is a binary type of on-off or is-isn't nature to enlightenment without any degrees or levels to the process of awakening. There is no line of separation to cross that Trump turns into Buddha with awakening, enlightenment transcends all absolutely and infinitely but it is our awakening to it that is the change, 'enlightenment' is constant. This change for some may appear like a light bulb turning on starting in a very dark place before and in an instant the change is so extreme the awakening is an intense realization so the experience of that awakening is dramatic. In others the awakening is like lighting a single candle first in one spot, then in another candle in another spot and keep lighting candles all around consciousness that eventually the whole consciousness is illuminated so the experience of awakening is gradual. Are there thresholds of awakening that certain realizations can become manifest in our consciousness? Absolutely. Are there thresholds of awakening that self suffering dissipates so peace/bliss permeates our being? Absolutely. Whether it happens dramatically or gradually there is no line of separation drawn between enlightenment and our consciousness. The only line that would be drawn is in our mind and this is what prevents us from realizing the awakening of enlightenment.

After many years of not discussing my own ongoing experience and evolution in awakening I eventually chose to engage in discussions because I see other people self suffering and they deserve healing, we all do. I don't really wish to talk about my 'story' as much as I am interested in empowering each individual personal experience in their own expression of it as it is to allow the healing to happen for them. So when there are people asserting 'what is' or 'is not' in a 'universal' and 'for everyone' way I know that this can bring even more self suffering to others because it doesn't match their own experience and they will doubt themselves. I know this because I experienced it first hand but fortunately I go to the source for my revelation not other people so I always found healing for this suffering. Though, not everyone is this fortunate, they seek guidance in others and their own personal experience is dismissed. This is why I question the authoritative stances that are taken and I embrace the diversity of expression in the experiences of individuals. The healing that comes in the inner lives of those that are suffering is more important than me telling my 'story' or about my 'ideas'. Awakening happens when people realize their own personal truth as they experience it, the healing that comes from this resolution transcends 'ideology' and is genuine liberation, it's absolute inner peace. I hope that those who have experiences which don't mirror the ones of those who declare that this is the way it is or is not will be encouraged by me standing true to individual personal experience. There is no truth in capitulating in conformity to 'enlightenment' group think because someone else claims 'absolute truth'. The healing for our own self suffering is our 'truth', it's as individual as each one of us are and we experience it by awakening our awareness to the absolute infinite source in us.

Well, for one thing, watch that you don't chop your foot, it's a foot in unity but it still hurts.

That experience is so fulfilling and this is the first time sharing it but it's just a story.

@Shanmugam Whatever you 'say' brother, haha

It is binary because you make it that way. This has been what I have been explaining again and again, you belie... er.... "know" is it binary so it is binary for you in your experience. Not me... not anyone else, for you. If someone else, anyone else belie... er "knows" it for themselves then it is for them in their experience but not for me in mine or anyone else who doesn't have that experience. So if you are still teaching "binary enlightenment", and binary is duality, I have to ask......are you teaching this "enlightenment" teaching from separation? According to your own words if you have the experience of enlightenment that duality is broken forever. So you are still teaching a duality/binary enlightenment..... not my words... your words.... not my belief, it's yours.... not my experience, yours... I don't "know" it, you do. I'm not saying you are "wrong", I'm saying you are "right" for your own experience since you create it that way. It's not really there, it's an illusion, but as you said in "enlightenment is breaking the duality forever" and that's because it wasn't ever to begin with.

Well, that is so gracious of you, I appreciate the endorsement of an authority on "enlightenment" such as you. I came in suddenly, huh? How does someone suddenly post a question? Is there an 'unsudden' way to post a question on a forum? Should I have warned you in a separate reply first that I was going to ask a question so it wouldn't be unexpected? The purpose of the question is to get an answer about if someone doesn't mirror what you say about it would you conclude they are "not enlightened" since that is in the title of your thread and the message of the post. You have quite an extensive criteria with "enlightenment" and "absolute infinite" that you write about for someone being "enlightened" or "not", so what is puzzling about the question on it? I have only been examining words and the ideas they represent in our conversations but if you weren't identifying with your words and ideas so strongly you wouldn't see a "problem" with me discussing it with you, there would be no conflict in you about it and you surely wouldn't react to it like this: So be it.

be·lief an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists. trust, faith, or confidence in someone or something. This is the basic definition of belief. So with this in view it is quite easy to see how limiting beliefs can create separation in awareness. The 'absolute infinite' isn't bound by our beliefs about it, there isn't any line or possibility it doesn't cross of fulfill. To say it "doesn't" or is "not" is establishing a limit in our perception of the infinite, just a limit in our awareness of it and isn't accurate because the infinite is unlimited otherwise it isn't infinite, see? Even if we set up some limit to what we 'believe' about the infinite, by it's genuine nature the infinite crosses that limitation we have set up in our mind. It's just our perception in our awareness of the infinite not being it and isn't the infinite not actually being it. Yes, it is imaginary, it is an image of the infinite we would have that limits our perception in our awareness of the infinite, they are imagined limits not actual limits. We create these imaginary boundaries when we have beliefs that limit our access or interaction with the infinite, they don't really exist, the infinite really is on both sides of this imagined boundary or limitation, we just aren't aware of it. Self, as a natural bodily 'sense', and the ego, as a mental construct, set up a separation between itself and everything to create the sense of self and an identity. This separation is perceived in consciousness so transcending the sense of separation and awakening to unity is the same as removing our limiting beliefs about the infinite. I am not suggesting we should not believe anything or that anyone is wrong for believing something or people shouldn't talk about it at all. What I am doing by speaking on it is bringing to awareness that by what we believe, what we accept as true and accept exists, we create the perception in our awareness of the infinite but not actually perceive the infinite as it is. That is trying to fit the infinite into our belief box and believing it only exists in our belief box but all that is doing is limiting our perception of the infinite. So, in reality, infinite actually fills all belief boxes that ever are believed and even more, it's infinite, we are only limiting what we may be aware of it as, not limiting what it is. So in my own experience if I am to talk about anything in teaching to awaken I will choose to speak about becoming aware of our sense of separation and our belief limitations so we may transcend them and be aware of unity in absolute infinite if that is what one intends. I also speak to healing, well being and inner peace, these aren't separate from awakening but they may have different words for who I am speaking to. You are welcome to talk about whatever you see fit although I will speak my peace as well. Hm

@Heart of Space That is where this started, asking about the personal perspective from experience but ultimately our well being and liberation from self induced suffering is the fruit of inner peace.

I only point them out to people who state that beliefs are negative in some way to alert them to theirs. If they think negatively about them then hidden or unconscious beliefs can be negative for them as per their beliefs about them. Words are how people post and reveal their ideas and beliefs so of course that's what I would point to on a forum. I personally don't believe that beliefs are inherently negative, they are natural psychological trust mechanisms and have no bias to them that we don't give them. We all have beliefs. I guess you are projecting your own negative perspective of beliefs onto me alerting others of unconscious beliefs. Besides, believing beliefs are negative is a limiting belief.... haha.

Those were just from your initial post, I guess they all are only limitations of language and not limiting beliefs, right? Haha!

@Shanmugam I had just written a detailed reply but decided to erase it because it's pointless to dissect all the statements you have made when it all revolves around the same thing. You put so many limitations with can'ts and don'ts on enlightenment, absolute and infinite that it's so funny... limitations on the infinite! Really? Then call it "truth"? Haha! The absolute infinite has absolutely infinite potential, it's our own limiting beliefs that create a narrow path to realizing it. Separation dissolves in awakening to this simple "truth" and is pure love, joy, peace....bliss

Ok, so you say it's either you are or you are no tand there are no increments or degrees of it, another may say it isn't like that at all. As an example, there is no binary on-off position to enlightenment at all, that it's always there, we are always enlightened and there are many incremental degrees of awakening to that ever present enlightenment with all of those degrees still being enlightenment. That's very much different than your description, not just a different word choice or different articulation of it, it's completely different. So can these be this same "absolute truth" and "enlightenment"?