SOUL

Logic belongs to materialism and materialism belongs to logic, they are dependent upon each other to exist and trying to separate them is like trying to separate food from it's taste. So using logic to prove materialism is absurd is like trying to use the taste of the food to prove it has no flavor. Liberation is freedom from suffering which does not depend on logic, materialism or proving anything to be what it is. In fact liberation is freedom from trying to prove anything, it's not logic or materialism or spirituality or absurdity, it is being at peace regardless of these swirling around us in life. So trying to prove something likely will contribute to suffering, not free one from it.

I find it interesting you don't mention suffering once in your original post yet the Buddha himself outlined these as the foundation of enlightenment. What is the purpose and value of understanding if there is no ceasing and freedom from suffering? At best understanding is part of the path that frees from suffering, at worst is causes suffering but even if it merely distracts from liberation then it is of no use.

Believing that we are in a dream is an illusion....

The way many use the word awakening suggests becoming aware of something that previously wasn't aware of and enlightenment appears to be used for an imagined state of awakening into an ultimate awareness that no additional awakening will occur. The reason I call it an imagined state is because it is imagined to be this by those who seek to awaken to enlightenment when in reality it isn't that. Enlightenment or as it is also called 'liberation' is freedom from suffering, mostly of the self induced variety but can be realized in all types, so liberation doesn't actually rely on awakening to be what it is. Yes, awakening, especially to how our self will induce suffering in us, can lead us to ceasing the suffering but awakening to it isn't the same as freedom from it. On this forum there are many examples of people awakening to all sorts of self suffering yet unable to be free from it and actually are perpetuating suffering through their seeking it as a form of awareness. People tend to equate spiritual enlightenment to scientific enlightenment as if it's an understanding, insight and knowledge about things spiritual like the scientific version of it is for the natural world but this is why they seek it without fruition.....which often can cause even more self suffering. Enlightenment is freeing from self suffering and any understanding, insight, knowledge or wisdom gained by us is a byproduct of liberation but the primary product of it is the freedom from suffering, our inner peace regardless of whether we gain anything else in awareness. So... Awakening is expanding awareness Enlightenment is freedom from suffering Yea, I know almighty Leo said it's exactly the same but ...well, yea.

It's not us loving the specific thing for what it is, it's us with love as a presence in our being. We aren't directing emotional energy for each individual thing or person or circumstance, this love is an unconditional presence we exist in and not an emotional impulse towards something or someone. So whatever arises in us it rises into a presence of love that permeates our being. Becoming aware of the distinction between the emotional impulse we associate with 'love' and the 'love' that transcends the emotional impulse we have for something/someone can be challenging but is crucial for it. Another way to say it is the emotional love is a subject loving an object just like emotional hate is a subject hating an object, those are emotional impulses. What people call 'unconditional love' is without the subject/object of the emotional love, it's a presence in our being that transcends the conditional. Does this clarify it?

Observe the self feeding thought loop of the self feeding thought loop that some people believe is truth because it is their self feeding thought loop that informs their perception through the fear they believe motivates it. The rest of us who don't believe in that conceptual framework aren't bound by their self feeding thought loop belief paradigm and because the belief bias has such a strong hold on their perception they are unaware of this.

No, it can't be seen because there is no seer and nothing to see.... so there's that.

I really do feel compassion for people who are awakening to the inner work of ceasing the self induced suffering since there is so much contradictory information coming from so many different directions all of it purporting to be wisdom. The ego is this, no the ego is that, it's an illusion, you are the ego, you are an illusion blah blah blah. This here is practical advice, it isn't labeling or a conceptual framework of what ego is or isn't and you are one with the illusion psychobabble, it's something that in each moment can be realized. Love is more than just an emotional impulse bathed in chemical responses, it's a force for healing the pain and suffering within us and for our holistic well being. What Haumea mentions here that is a crucial aspect is loving all which arises in us without necessarily believing it. How self suffering finds a foothold within us is through attaching to all that arises in us and to cease the reflexive identity with it is to cease the source of self induced suffering. Love in this context is the psychological salve that heals the already existing suffering but ceasing the reflexive identity to what arises in us is the preventative care of our well being so self suffering will not manifest. We can still use what arises in us to navigate through the world successfully sustaining our lives but without the reflexive identity it has no mechanism to cause suffering. It doesn't matter what it's called or how it is framed, ego, self, illusion, separate, one or whatever. What does have influence is the moment by moment relationship of our inner life and what Haumea shares is advice for a present moment relation with our inner experience that is practical. Love what arises but not necessarily believe(identify with) it, in every moment. Indeed. Free from the self induced suffering. Thanks Haumea! @Amanda R Batista

To get it one ceases wanting it and once one does cease the wanting it is realized there is nothing to get. Then abiding in this presence of aware being while existing in the manifest reality is the man in the maze.

I am versed

Having any concept of what words mean and if they'd be understood by another is being a slave to the past. Typing something out and hitting 'submit reply' is being a slave to the future.

People will think they don't have a belief paradigm of thoughts while warning others about thoughts.......haha

@Charlotte Well, thinking about being aware in the present moment is a thought, actually being aware in the present moment doesn't require a thought... even though one can observe a thought while being aware in the present moment.

By using awareness in the present moment... @NoSelfSelf

Every thing we experience in every moment is accessing the subconscious, each moment is the drip drip drip that the accumulating effect of the present moment's experience upon the subconscious mind.

He really does embrace the self suffering ego narrative and if he was just teaching methods and practices to people for the cessation of suffering even if it is to a very specific cultural niche then more power to him. It's not anything I would encourage but the last thing I want to allow happen is my own being agitated by him or his people. Although, he surely goes full fundy extreme minded over ideological diversity that comes from his moralizing which he justifies the use of vitriolic intent towards others. I kind of like him though, I enjoyed his stuff, his lectures, before he blew up in attention from the other issues. I avoid his stuff now.

Wait... is that a 'no thank you' or 'no, thank you'.... the comma changes the whole meaning.... haha

Um...'meatego'? Or 'selfflesh'?

@cetus56 gave a very good simple explanation. Others gave more complicated ones to varying degrees. @Flow With Life gave the Buddhist tradition explanation which is very interesting even if it's old so sounds a bit archaic. It seems all the explanations have added to the confusion of it so I hesitate to still add even more but I will try maybe a different tact. Obviously it's difficult to describe the abstract although I think it can be understood in a simple way like cetus attempted. Think of awareness as gold in it's natural form, unrefined and as if we have found it as nuggets coming out of the ground in the natural state of it. Perception is a piece of jewelry made from that gold, the primary contributor of material to the jewelry is the gold but to be a piece of jewelry there is a process of refinement and crafting that includes other elements of jewels and skill to craft which brings it to be the piece of jewelry, to be perception. It's made primarily of the raw material of gold/awareness but it is not the raw state of material, it's been crafted to be perception through experience. It's not a perfect metaphor and I won't try to extrapolate it into a more complicated comparison but I think it's enough that it communicated the relationship between these two abstract ideas. They may not be the exact same thing conceptually but perception is 'made' from awareness. Maybe this helps clarify it some, if not, my apologies to @Ingit if I added to the confusion.

Edits are illusions..... raw....cough cough... r! heh

That's an illusion of nothingness. rawr!

Um... well yea being is totally obvious..... it is ubiquitous.... if one is an aware being. heh

An image loves....?.....to imitate? I am being... it may be a simulation or an illusion or a vision maybe a revelation, but I am being. Whatever it is. rawr!

What does a 'being' need? A be-er? Ok thanks I'll have one....it will help with all of this thought talk.... I will be-er about unity infinity. rawr!

Do you know what the lizard brain is? The phenomenon of fragasaurus.....rawr!