SOUL

My apologies for what happened in this thread, it has some real insightful stuff being discussed until... well, again, my apologies.

Yep, it's clear....dudes

This thread had a great discussion going on until the 'movement dudes' took it over.

I always have work to do, chop wood, carry water, but my work has nothing to do with my peace. Liberation is realized without work but the ego may hinder liberation. That's what we are all talking about, right? Which is why I bring healthy conditioning to it, so it will agree with the liberation, not be an obstacle to it. Interesting word choice, "argue", it's reflective of your conditioning.

You are welcome to believe anything you like, even that you aren't believing this and that those beliefs are facts. Ego has you fooled into believing this conceptual paradigm to satisfy it's desire.....haha, yea that sneaky ego.

Your ego believes you "caught" something...... you did, yourself. You choose to believe that it's "unhealthy" and for you it is because you believe it to be true. You believe it to be a falsity, so it is false for you, not anyone else. It isn't "control", that's your word from your conditioning you are applying to me. I'll explain it simply for you. I behave inwardly and outwardly in a certain way, this experience becomes remembrance that the ego recalls. With enough consistent behavior in this way that becomes the identity the ego identifies with and a reflexive impulse of it so when I behave this way in the present moment the ego is in union with it, not hindering it. So I don't control the ego, it just agrees with my present moment expression. It's like learning a new skill, it's how the monkey mind gets trained, it's not rocket surgery... it's neuroscience! It's called neuro-plasticity. We can cease self induced suffering through this process.... well, if you choose to but you can do whatever you prefer. Hah

You can create any conceptual paradigm for yourself you want and believe it to be the truth, you cannot create it for anyone else. You just chose to believe the conditioning that someone else created, it still doesn't make it true for everyone.

It's always entertaining to observe this truism in action. I have no delusion that I am apart from it all, I'm aware that I am a part of it all.

There's nothing special about that conceptual paradigm they have created for themselves. Believing they are outside of the loop is the ego creating an identity where it believes it knows the truth outside of the loop, a self fulfilling loop..... sneaky ego. It's actually a very old and predictable conditioned loop.

Ego is sneaky right? Trusting that something is true is belief, your ego believes it to be true and then you believe that everyone else has conditioned insight but yours are unconditioned. All your conceptualizations are conditioned loops you are operating from. That sneaky ego has you fooled that you aren't fooled but I see right through it. BAHA!

Who believes that which rejects-affirms aspects of ego and seeks to transform it is nothing more than ego? Who believes it to be a unitary process? Who believes the ego is sneaky? Who chooses to believe any of this conceptualization is true? Your belief is what you create for yourself, you don't create it for anyone else.

Stardust that is aware of being.

Who's asking who? WHO! The owl cult that's who!

Ego uses many things to identify with so if we transform it's conditioning, yes, it can be healthy.

"forum: a public meeting place for open discussion" ...but your disagreement is is duly noted. HAHA

There's no need to post of forums either yet here we are. Peace.

This concern is addressed here. This way the ego becomes an advocate for transcendence not a obstacle to it.

Yes, the ego's monkey mind machinations can be difficult to manage and it will cling to the methods and ideas about the 'spiritual path' so become a 'spiritual ego'. This can become a stumbling block to genuine transcendence and will continue to create self suffering. I use inner work to train the monkey mind with transcending 'conditioning' of releasing attachment. It may seem paradoxical to have the ego attach to non-attachment and identify with non-identity but using the ego's nature to seek transcendence is powerful inner work.

Buddha did have a forum to talk on..... it just took place under a bodhi tree and his words were carried away by the wind but written down by others.

Good and bad ego? Two egos? BAHA! I don't wish that on anyone. The ego isn't good or bad, it just is what it is, it has it's nature and I understand what that is. Actually, I'm best friends with my ego, I trained the monkey mind to seek transcendence of it's own nature so it reflects that in it's 'conditioning'. I am at peace with the nature of all consciousness experience; You're reaching for something that isn't there now trying to find something to criticize about what I am saying. You know where that motivated reasoning comes from, don't you? I understand why you would go there, though. You probably have come across people who demonize the ego quite often but you may be reading that into the context from previous experiences even though I didn't say it. Good and evil is a dichotomy created by a mistaken perception of the primitive mind from our observation of the natural world. There is no such moral duality but we saw night and day, male and female, life and death so we mythologized it into a good and evil dualism. It does rise up from the self conscious impulse to self preserve and the ego's desire to create identity. Again, this isn't a good or bad thing, it just is what it is and it does naturally cause self suffering if left to it's own devices because that's what it does by it's own naturalistic impulse to survive. To awaken is to become aware of this natural impulse and to transcend it is liberation. The natural impulse doesn't really go away, our toe hurts when we smash it, our stomach aches for food and our ego seeks identify. When we transcend it in awareness and cease to be reflexively triggered by the self preserving impulse or consumed by the attaching desire of ego it frees consciousness from the self suffering that our body naturally is disposed to. No moral judgements about it, it just is what it is and what I do to liberate my self from suffering. Does that clarify it?

If I am one with everything then am the poop that comes out of my ass......and yes, that is where I pulled this realization from and it is getting deep in here... real deep. So when I do self inquiry I contemplate.... Poo is asking? POO!

Who said discussion is futile? Maybe your ego wanted you to believe I did because it doesn't want to hear my genuine message. WHO! Does that bring clarity to what the shadow is?

@Serotoninluv Yes, it seems you are saying what I have been talking about all along. The path only is problematic is it distracts from being present in the moment, presence of now, awakened ISness. I never said the complexity is wrong or bad, just that it can and often distracts from being present now in awakened ISness. That it becomes an addiction of the ego, a self serving fixation on the complexities, the 'spiritual ego' I guess it is also called. So many are consumed with walking the complicated path but never noticing the flowers because of the bullshit. Stop and smell the flowers....even though the field stinks of bullshit and still be at peace with it all. Haha

Was that a chime I heard? Very insightful questions, I'm surprised nobody has taken the time to reply. Neither are "necessary", we can live our whole life undeveloped and self suffering....very many do. Development is cultivating one's life as pertaining to the circumstances of life in both the inner and outer realm. Liberation is cessation of self suffering. A person can develop one's life to a degree that they attain everything they ever wanted yet still self suffer and not be at peace. A person can liberate from self suffering and never develop their life even one bit yet still be at peace and fulfilled. Of course if a person is liberated from self suffering and is developing one's life they can be at peace and fulfilled at every step of the way even if their efforts to develop it are never fully realized. Both of these can be simultaneously pursued. Does that bring any clarity?

I have a very complicated mind, one that loves to analyze the intricacies and nuances but that is just ego looking to justify itself through it's machinations. This doesn't change that awakening is simple, being present in the moment is simple, not attaching to the self identity is simple. The simplicity of this is not enough to satisfy the ego's craving for relevance and to justify it because it in fact empties the ego of it's importance. So it invents a myriad of complexities to keep us from being present and from severing attachment to it's content. The complexity is involved with the techniques and methods of the 'path', all of the things that people will do to occupy the mind with tasks they associate with their 'spirituality' and 'consciousness work'. So they spend countless hours discussing these things with others, in writing and reading about them, so that they can indulge the ego's desire to traffic in self styled 'wisdom'. People become infatuated with the complexities of their path and it distracts from the simple nature of just being present. Just because it's simple doesn't mean it's easy, it undoubtedly can be very difficult to be present and stay present in a hyperactive and challenging world. This nonsense, pardon me but it is nonsense, about explaining the unexplainable is simply the ego projecting onto a blank screen what it believes is there. 'Nothingness' and 'emptiness' has no form, no characteristics or any definitions so to be talking about 'it's this' and 'no, it's that' is just the ego attempting to polish that blank screen into a mirror so it can gaze at it's own reflection. Liberating one from suffering is not mutually exclusive from finding a purpose in life. Although liberation is a very fine purpose in life itself and without it every other purpose leaves craving more and continues to cause suffering. So even though we may have a complex array of variables that relate to our particular life circumstances in getting what we need to survive it would be a mistake to conflate these two into one in the same. Chopping wood and carrying water is the same act that gets the same result but the fulfillment and peace in liberation is incalculable. It has been said that these techniques and methods are merely scaffolding to build our 'temple' of our path and isn't actually what we are working on. The problem with this metaphor is that it implies we still have a need for the scaffolding for as long as we continue on the temple path. I say we aren't building the temple but dismantling it, we ae tearing down the scaffolding as we tear down the temple so that neither of them remain. We aren't writing the book of our spiritual path, we are erasing it and burning the pages. The ego cannot see the wisdom in that.