SOUL

Well, the truth/false dichotomy is a dualism that creates a perspective that separates 'what is' into two parts, true and false. There is just what is, there isn't an opposite to what is because what isn't..... isn't anything, it does not exist. There only is what is, there is no opposite, it isn't. So 'false' is still what is. The self is what is, ego is what is, the physical manifest is what is. It's all what is because what isn't... is not. Once one is awakened to this transcendent yet simple perspective of being it's so obvious it can't be unseen and the veil of duality in the mind is seen for what it is. The self suffering can come when someone has a perspective in this truth/false dualism because it may cause conflict of being with what is yet they believe it isn't. Transcending the truth/false dualism of separation that causes self suffering is liberation, it's the absolute unity of being.

I can understand why so many are lost and still self suffering when this type of dualism teaching is so prevalent and dominates the discourse. The truth/false dichotomy is so ingrained in the mind that few recognize it's influence on them and how it is the source of the self suffering.

Holymoly the measure decriminalizes the personal possession, use and growing of them. I have experience in the cultivation of them so maybe I should pack my bags and head for Denver hehe.

I changed the wording of my search to include 'passed' and then there were reports from local sources confirming it passed by a razor thin margin. I guess even search engines can't believe it to be true haha.

Every report I have read said the measure was rejected unfortunately. Does anyone have a link to a credible site that has the ballot results because in my search I haven't found one saying it passed?

Don't get green ones.........

Wait......if the past and future are an illusion then...... What future?

The irony of 'being', which is effortless as you accurately state, is the amount of effort it can take to cease chasing the incessant activity the mind wants to distract awareness with. So often many expend much effort just to effortlessly 'be' even though it doesn't require that effort to transcend the distraction. Instead of methods and techniques of practice the only 'effort' one expends in effortless being is in the nonactivity of not pursuing the mind's distractions. In that awarenese of effortless being our daily activities are an expression of that harmonious presence of being.

I don't think I said anything about ego so your point is an illusion @Inliytened1

It's for survival. The mind is always modeling reality in a virtual conceptual paradigm using past experience to assess and understand present experience as well as anticipate potential future experience. If the mind didn't do this we probably would be in a perpetual state of fear and confusion from a survival perspective. Even though the mind is constantly modeling experience in this way there is a part of our conscious experience that is always present in the moment which is observing the mind processing experience this way. We also have as part of our conscious experience an ability to be aware of the observer of the mind's processes. Being present can be understood as this awareness not being consumed by the mind's processes even if the observer of the mind is attentive to what is going on in the mind to sustain life. Don't let people lead you to believe that there is anything wrong or bad with the mind doing what the mind does or that the observer of the mind is doing what it does. That would be a limiting belief which can cause self suffering because it's virtually impossible to cease all mind activities and still physically function to survive. The simple approach is to be accepting of the natural expression of consciousness and the manifest existence and not allow it to cause self suffering by rejecting or fighting with it. Even though we're accepting of it we don't have to believe it and that is the way we don't attach to the content which can be a source of self suffering. The most challenging part of this is to act in a way that promotes well being and physical survival without creating a dogmatic belief system around our conceptual framework and behavior. The mind is a believer, the observer of the mind can decide on something but in awareness we don't have to believe to be present.

Prayer is a powerful psychological tool in harnessing intentional and emotional energy for personal work but if one will believe in what some suggest is possible in effecting the manifest to the degree asserted then that can be another source of self suffering.

The clearest assessment of your statement comes from your own words Well said.

The ego is exposed by awakening so it will conjure up anything and everything it can to discourage and distract us from being attentive to presence.

You talk so beautifully and eloquently about this life experience in integrated ways so what leads you to believe that the 'spiritual journey' is separate from living life? There is nothing to 'do' to 'be present' and even if things in life distract our awareness away from presence. Integrating presence with normal life of being a mom and wife is your 'spiritual journey'.....your mission impossible so to speak.,... If you choose to accept it. Being present will only blossom through your experience of the life you are living and the challenge is not letting life distract you from presence.

In a relativistic way denying suggests separation but accepting suggests unity.

Is it really a denying of the self or is it accepting a presence of being that transcends the sense of self? Hehe

Well, I said realize presence but to initially recognize presence can lead to making It real. Although presence is awakened as a direct experience when it is realized in us. Do you judge your judging? It's not about the types or amount of activity and content that happens in the mind, it's the attachment to it, the story can distract from being present. Even the narrative of not attaching to the story can be a distraction if we allow it. The mind doesn't want the simplicity of presence, it wants the complicated story and will generate it in everything.

Being isn't doing, it's being. Being is an expression of awareness in the manifest existence so when we realize our awareness of being in the present moment it is not doing anything, it's being aware in the present moment, it's a pure expression of presence. The story we tell about it doesn't create It or add to presence but can only serve to distract from presence. The story of a doer or no doer, of free will or not, of 'god' or devils is just the mind's imagination conjuring up a narrative to identify with. Aware of being present in the moment, the experience of presence, doesn't require a story. We can 'do' all sorts of meditative activities to practice 'presence', to exercise our mind to attune to awareness of being present in the moment but presence is a spontaneous expression of consciousness in the manifest. Don't think to much about the story or how to conceptualise it, just be presence. As you go about your day whether the mind is full or empty, noisy or silent, active or still and with every situation and conditions you find yourself in just realize 'presence'. So I would suggest just avoid all the story telling about what is real or illusion, true self, no self, God, free will and blah blah blah. Be.....just be. Awareness of being present. Realize presence.

Two of the most tedious speakers in my opinion on the same stage is barely tolerable for me but I listened to it nonetheless because of the significance of the event. That being said it wasn't surprising that Peterson offered the same tired ideological driven partisan rhetoric he is known for while Zizek at least offered a more nuanced and balanced criticism of both economic systems. It also completely amazes me that Peterson can find such visceral disgust and suggest a moral failing from what he perceives as hypocrisies on left while completely ignoring them and often praising things in his ideological religious preference as he simultaneously criticizes in others. Zizek appears to be coming from a more traditional philosophical viewpoint in that he offers his criticisms and praises on the merits of the ideas and not from a tribalist ideological bias the way Peterson does. As far as the happiness portion of it, it seems like both of them think that happiness is a byproduct of materialistic and ideological conditions that allow for it in an indirect way. Although sufficient needs iand meaning hasn't proven to be enough in bringing genuine well-being if our Western first world experience is any evidence. So it was probably that the question posed in this debate wasn't suitable in providing a platform for these speakers to find a more productive and salient way of addressing the nature of well-being or they are ill-equipped in their philosophy to address it in a way that departs from conventional wisdom which hasn't really been working anyway.

Your doubt is an indicator of your own absence of experience, not mine. The reason for any story, narrative and Mythos is meaning. The purpose for calling subjective experience as truth and projecting it onto others is justification.

I have experienced what he's talking about and that's why I recognize the storytelling and belief projecting as well as the reason and purpose for it. @Mikael89

Haha yeah that guy is kind of a dark creepy storyteller but he is another storytelling dualist that believes they know the truth and tries to tell everybody else what their truth is just like the founder of this forum does. As it quite often is with people who speak on the subjective spiritual matters there is a small bit of something many can relate to but then they go on to construct a belief system around it which is then projected onto others as if it's a universal truth and it really is just a personal truth.

So what does this state that cannot be spoken about help with someone having a happy life? Are you suggesting that only if someone has direct experience of this state that they can have a happy life?

The original topic is about a 'happy life' and 'enlightenment' which this discussion serves as a clear example why so few people have a 'happy life' from this type of 'enlightenment' discourse. It is spoken of as something that is so esoteric and abstract when the reality of it isn't so complicated. A happy life can be correlated to the amount of self suffering one experiences. Having all of these esoteric and abstract complexities to contend with can be a source of self suffering because it distracts from the obvious simple nature of being since the mind is consumed with imagining so distracts awareness from being present. What you call the 'prior' state is really simultaneously happening in consciousness and we can 'view' the present moment with this clarity. Our awareness is the observer of consciousness that is without the conceptualization of the mind unless we believe the mind's conjuring so identify with and attach to it. Awareness of being present without trying to control the mind or understand complex concepts is that 'prior' you speak of, it's accessible in the present moment. Not reflexively believing everything the mind produces is a empowering way to bring about the cessation of self suffering. It is quite simple to explain the simple way. It may not be quite that easy to create an inner experience that embodies this type of being present because we are constantly lured into the conceptual world through the mind's activities. So that 'prior' state is a 'present' state that we can view from at any moment even while the mind weaves it's story. Not being attached to the story leads to that cessation of self suffering which isn't the same thing as the cessation of the mind's activity in creating the story. Believing we have to cease the mind and it's activity to be 'happy' may be one of the most common inducers of self suffering in seekers. The simplicity of not reflexively attaching and identifying with what happens in the mind is enough to empower the cessation of self suffering in us which correlates to a 'happy life'. This can be a genuine experience for us whether we understand any of the complex concepts or not and whether we reach what many consider 'enlightened' or not.

No, I'm not saying anything about somewhere or nowhere or anything like that. That's your perception of what I said but not what I said. You warned... then you proceeded to provide what you warned about.. so maybe you were being kind in warning about what was coming... sort of like a trigger warning. haha Sure, we can use phrases to portray things metaphorically but it still using images and expectations to describe the indescribable when a description may become a distraction. You weren't pointing to that? Why not? It's a very powerful point! I'm glad I made it then. The images, concepts and expectations we have can limit us in experiencing joy. As we grow in awareness and awaken in consciousness our perspective changes. It can happen that the previous perspectives we once viewed from are completely gone and what is obvious to us now in the present perspective isn't a stumbling block but it isn't obvious to a previous perspective and can be a stumbling block. Awakening to integrate all perspectives is holistic but it's often a challenge to recognize where anyone is on the path so I prefer to speak in the simplest of terms with the least amount of description so as not become a stumbling block distraction..... but you can do whatever you see fit and my friend will just have to accept that. hehe