SOUL

This concept of 'nothing matters' is to motivate a release of attachment to 'things'. Yet, that can be without the concept which proves for very many who encounter it to be an obstacle to the cessation of self suffering from the attachment to things, not ironically having attachment to the idea 'nothing matters'. I probably could have just lead with that but I doubt it would have changed much because people really do cling tightly to their ideas. Also, if 'god' is 'unknowable' why do people ascribe meaninglessness to 'god'? Didn't you say it's unknowable? Haha... I likely started a whole new 'thing'.

Woah, someone said I was a little hard but this here turned into a dog pile....hah Not to 'do' it. Be it.

Well, it's laughably simple and obvious, cease to be attached in awareness to them. Haha Oh...and release any desire to be aware of it... that's the challenging aspect.

I can appreciate your eloquent and poetic words in describing the knowing you have grasped about what you claim can't be described, grasped or known. We can be aware of the whole and I suggest keep transcending the perceived limits on what can be described, grasped or known. Here is a hint...when you get to 'I am god'...keep going because even that can be transcended to where 'I'....'am'... and 'god' cease to be....not just in concept, but in awareness. Peace.

@Inliytened1 Perhaps, although, I've seen Leo go way harder on people here and I would even perceive it sometimes as bullying using his stature to do so. Yet, I do apologize if I did, it wasn't my intention to harm anyone. If you follow the exchange we were having maybe you can see what I did in it and this was my intention by prodding them into examining and addressing what I was exploring. I will leave it alone though, again, my apologies.

@VeganAwake Your belief system is yours... it isn't any sort of absolute or universal truth, it's just your own truth, no matter how many others agree with you, how much you believe in it or polish your ego with 'no higher teaching' rhetoric..... it's all in your imagination. It's not the middle way, it's a modern version of aesthetics that Buddha encountered in his day but the belief is centered around psychological self. The extremes are the egocentric on one side and the no-self on the other. You may eventually awaken to the genuine nature of being and come to understand how the meaning/meaningless conceptualization is another way the ego uses dualism in it's 'spiritual self'. Holistic being embraces, honors and celebrates the whole. There is a oneness that we relinquish our attachment to the individual self to awaken to but once we do that oneness empowers our individual self to be a genuine unique expression of the whole like one facet out of infinite number on a gem that each glows when the light hits it. I awakened to it through an autodidact path experience but I'm aware that some people require an internet guru to say it so here.....

Your words are meaningless yet you glorify them, curious...hm You believe it isn't belief..... interesting, hm.

@Inliytened1 I think something along that theme was addressed in the first couple pages. Too often the spiritual 'path' as presented by so many of the 'no-self/nothingness' teaching is just a rejection of everything physical which isn't an accepting way to live life but it also presents a conflict with actually living life. What I speak about is embracing life in it fullest but isn't dependent on the circumstances of life to be fulfilled. Don't seek it.... be it.

A circle has one side.....but that still fits with the story you are telling though.... infinite and one ...haha.

I'm sure this was replied to in the thread, probably multiple times but I'm not reading it all to find out and it likely was more mystical mumbo jumbo so I will address it in another way for you. Our mind generates a sense of self to motivate us for survival and with what people call the ego this is expressed as identity which included in that attachment is meaning, purpose and fulfillment. Since the pursuit of identity, the 'I matter', creates so much self suffering in us the spiritualists have chosen to embrace the complete opposite expressed as 'nothing matters' and believe it as the 'absolute truth'. Let me present a middle way instead of running from one extreme to the other. Instead of seeking out meaning... what 'matters' in the external world of circumstances find that fulfillment in being... in just being. Not in doing, attaining, achieving or identifying with to have fulfillment, we just be fulfilled. Be it. Then everything in life we experience is empowered with this unconditional fulfillment. Hopefully this brings some clarity and can be useful to you in being at peace.

I'm sure he wasn't being insensitive or inconsiderate but he just may not be suited as a teacher to guide someone who has a such inherently problematic mind. The type of guidance he might need is more therapeutic in nature instead of just mystical, a blend of both approach. I don't know how much experience he has with such challenged individuals. Of course, Spira alluded to previous time the young man shared so he might have multiple interactions with him and may convey to him what I just mentioned in another session. The reason I have some insight to this is because I'm one who was blessed with a similarly problematic mind which ironically did strengthen me with my inner work along my path.

You know... I read back through the post to you and that stuck out to me as not what I was trying to say so I changed it to something more accurately reflecting my own experience just as you replied back to me with only those words.....that's so funny!!!! HAHAHAHAHAA Yup, words are funny things.

Go to sleep and SNOAR! Baha

Leo offers detailed explanations of the imaginary....his imaginary, not everyone's. It's beneficial to be aware of this.

I notice you absolute-tizing things that may not always clarify them.....but actually on an 'absolute' level terror and peace aren't the same thing, the absolute is neither terror or peace, it's absolute and doesn't have relative characteristics of either. What might be clearer to say and I concur with is that the type of peace, let's call it a transcendent peace, that endures through all type of circumstances isn't one that is dependent on favorable circumstances to exist, it's a peace that transcends the relative circumstances. One might say to ourselves if this peace isn't based on relative circumstances it isn't relative so it is absolute. Other than that is a form of dualistic thinking it isn't quite accurate in that it still is peace, peace has characteristics of peace that are relatively expressed as peace. So though I may not prefer to use your word choice in absolute-tizing as I explained why I do have agreement in the experience of the peace that transcends the relative circumstances. This should be the take away and hopefully I've emphasized this. We all 'create our own reality' but this particular word choice appears to cause quite a bit of confusion as it has in this very thread, so maybe we can create a different word choice. Something to consider. Hehe

I watched this video and Spira has some insightful things to offer yet there was some opportunity to bring some clarity to this particular person's path. He did express to him about the awareness 'behind' everything in the mind though it may have been helpful to instruct him to recognize that awareness behind in the periods where his overactive mind is embroiled in the OCD. It's great he gave him a way to use that peace of awareness in every day relations of less charged moments. That can be a powerful way to create a peace in those more conducive outer circumstances. He could have also reminded him how powerful it is to take that same approach in the highly charged inner relations with his OCD mind. That mind is trying to instigate behavior even if that behavior is confined to within his consciousness like resistance or denial of the activity which creates distress. If he wants peace in those moments that awareness behind could serve as that basis of peace. Eventually this would create a lasting inner environment of peace naturally that he previously was experiencing after his trips which would fade away.

I keep hearing the a similar theme over and over again.... 'I agree with Bernie's ideas and policy but I want to vote for someone who can win so will vote Biden'.... uh.... If everyone who agrees with Bernie voted for him, polling suggests it's a majority across all political demographics, then Bernie can win. What's so hard to understand that is how it works? Besides, Biden doesn't win against Trump, he has the same issues as Hillary did but worse in many respects and will get exposed. It doesn't really matter what Bernie says or does, the establishment has such a strong hold over the minds of people they can't think for themselves and act in their own best interest.

I'm just aware of when someone is regurgitating dogmatic understanding without having genuine awakening experience. Those who have experience don't sidestep, deflect or avoid a question, they can reply with clarity. All your descriptions cannot obscure it to one who can see with a clarity that comes genuine experience. There's not much benefit to question someone this way unless they are really awake because then it's clear to them what is being pointed to. Haha

Then why did you say that there is imaginary thought story? So imaginary thought story is an imaginary thought story.... that is no such thing. Of course, that doesn't answer the question, I didn't ask what is it, I asked what isn't it. So if it is nothing then everything isn't an imaginary thought story. Hmmmmm, you may want to get your (imaginary thought) story straight. Or do you want to actually answer it? Please proceed.

Well, "spiritual bypassing' is an imaginary thought story, too, but please explain, what do you suggest isn't an imaginary thought story?

Which bring us back to the point.... you are telling people their imaginary thought stories are nothing and your imaginary thought stories are everybody's something. This is your imaginary thought story yet you are suggesting it's an absolute truth, a universal truth for everyone and a truth for the universe. It may be your truth because you trust it to be true and empower it to be your truth through behaving in accordance with this belief but it's just your imaginary thought story. Our imagination defines the interaction with the physical world and our identity in the physical world because our perception of it is created and filtered through the imagination but the physical world itself isn't dependent on our imagination to exist...no matter how much you meditate on it, it's just how we perceive it. That is quite the complicated imaginary thought story you got there.

Another imaginary thought story......

'Absolute truth' is just another imaginary thought story to believe in.

@Identity Yea, so often I see people saying about the spiritual path one 'can't' or 'only' or 'must' and this sets up limiting beliefs for their own spiritual path but isn't universally trie or really a requirement. It's a self constructed obstacle preventing them being it presently that they need to overcome to 'attain' it. The ego loves to set up the system so there are methods, techniques and processes to 'accomplish' a 'goal'. Being at peace is something we are being, not doing and the ego isn't getting its desire to be justified in building an identify around it. When we believe what the ego has created we empower it to be our truth even if it is preventing our liberation.

It does seem as if her own beliefs are preventing her from being at peace with where she is at presently and holding her back from what she sees as a previous state of awakening. At least from your account of the discussion. So you might be accurately saying it's her limiting beliefs that are the source of this because the spiritual life is imaginary and how we envision it will effect our experience of it. It's not that something is objectively true or false with the spiritual path but if we trust it is true, which is the definition of belief, our spiritual life will behave as if it is true, we have empowered it to be our truth.