RichardY

O'Brien. 1984. Stage Turquoise, and some red. Though to be fair in the context of the book, the world had under gone a nuclear holocaust. "If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face forever." Hows that for raising consciousness! Winston Smith, the protagonist, Yellow with some red.

It doesn't. The metaphysic is substance dualism. Although I might be deceived by an evil demon, the only thing I can be certain of is that "I" exist (my soul exists). It's an example of foundationalism, an attempt to find a foundation to ground truth on. Although why have dualism and not substance theory or Idealism. Why put off reality another step into Substance Dualism? Although I have not read Descartes Meditation... Just snippets about it. There seems to be 3 main theories of truth and epistemology(theory of Knowledge) 1) Foundationalism and Correspondence Theory of Truth. 2) Coherence theory of Truth. 3) Infinitism

"It's hard to soar like an Eagle when you're surrounded by Turkeys."

Even one person can make a difference. Not necessarily a good difference, it can be a catastrophic difference. Didn't Bernie Sanders actually win the popular vote in the Democratic convention, but the party commissioners overruled it. A bit like Hilary winning the "popular vote". Interestingly both Trump and Hilary are related to one another through the John of Gaunt Line, relation of Richard III, Plantagenet kings. One big soap opera. In a way I think Hilary was President in effect when her husband Bill was banging whoever he could hold of imho.

If property dualism were true. BRAINZ!!! Nerve fibres in your gut, your gut probably has a fairly high level of consciousness. I guess you can have zombified cockroaches, spiders, mice etc in reality.

I'm still playing around, so I wouldn't take things too seriously. There is a focus more on sanctity(sacredness) in Logotherapy as opposed to earlier Jungian psychology. Leo did say that Freud was stage Orange(which I would agree with), although he did much research into the unconscious. What I'm thinking about is how I can really throttle consciousness, more of entertainment really. Pretty sure fire is a fairly obvious symbol associated with consciousness. Loki or Promethesus as mythos. What stage people are at I'm not too concerned with. The model itself is incomplete and therefore profane, but then what is?

Blue, Orange, Green(SJW's), Yellow, Turquoise(Collective Solipsists), Coral(or Corral, to imprison Cattle) Spiral dynamics is profane rather than holy or sacred. Not that profanity isn't useful in many circumstances, or that I have no curiosity towards profanity. "There's daggers in men's smiles". - Shakespeare I think it's profane to label or assume a person's soul, not that I can avoid doing it, at least usually in my own mind or "celebrities". Profane Fire.

@CreamCat Are you a philosophical zombie? I think consciousness is ever present. Whether it is fragmentary or whole varies on Ego and its integration with the self and body. After traumatic events like say being hit by a car or just because someone is particularly neurotic, they may not be conscious, even though they act conscious, to a certain extent, like in sleep walking. I don't accept that property dualism is actual, although substance dualism might be. Personally I go with Neutral Monism, where reality is neither physical nor mental. I think physicalism by itself is incorrect, although Idealism has merit.

Aristotle or Early Platonic dialogues(Socrates). I recommend Scribd or Audible, for audiobooks. Bear in mind to actually do philosophy is practical, requires trust and by extension morality. Listening currently to "Walden" by Ralph Waldo Emerson,(recommended by a forum member) said something similar in the first chapter. It might be you lack certain qualities, in which case a self-knowledge or psychological focus might be more suitable. I would skip a lot of the fragmentary nature of YouTube and get a more Holistic knowledge direct from various works.

Oddly I was thinking of something similar to this 2 days a go. Actually read it is possible for a "woman" with male DNA to give birth. As a male has XY chromosome and a female XX chromosome. There is a certain incompleteness that allows for creativity, perhaps even truth itself. ------------------------------------------------ http://www.strange-loops.com/philtruthwoman.html Supposing truth is a woman - what then? Are there not grounds for the suspicion that all philosophers, insofar as they were dogmatists, have been very inexpert about women? That the gruesome seriousness, the clumsy obtrusiveness with which they have usually approached truth so far have been awkward and very improper methods for winning a woman's heart? That line starts Friedrich Nietzsche's Beyond Good and Evil (translated by Kaufmann), and is one running theme of the work: that truth may not be as straightforward as we think, that it may be as elusive and coy as a woman pursued by a fumbling man. Through most of history we've only fumbled with truth, with a pathetically simplistic, straightforward and naive notion of truth. Nietzsche elaborates in section 192: ----------------------------------------------- There is no truth. - Can "no" refer to anything but a particular? There is truth. - Perhaps truth is all encompassing however incomplete.

I think of the pre-communist pyramid structure. But instead of labelling people by their profession. You instead pronounce judgement on their soul.

What exactly dies?... The Ego.....which means what!!! Does this mean to say you join the ranks of the undead? Sounds like collectivism to me, not that I necessarily care, like one big movie. Kalima!!! Not sure if I have the heart for carnage.

@RendHeaven Thanks I'll give it a look. I read the Tao Te Ching a while a go, is a pretty short book. Seems to be a theme with non-duality and nature, looking for ways to think a bit more clearly. Might as well read MORE!!! since there's plenty of information available before condensing back in. Anyone else recommend some books? the meat of the forum perhaps.

Can anyone recommend any books in particular on non dual thinking and Idealism? Was thinking about reading Carl Jungs's "Mysterium Coniunctionis". and some of Bishop George Berkeley's books about "Subjective Idealism". Looking for a concentrated dose. There's probably other stuff non-book related like taichi, yoga, psychedlics, that might help with an overall body intergrated nondualism. Though I'm focused on the mind, so much stuff out there though.

The Objective element seems to be a bit of a dead end. A person may act "objectively" but are they rationalising after the fact? There's got to be some advantages to a leap before you look, way of being? especially given many defined ways of society and correction. The subjective element seems to provide material to be played around with. Maybe there's a fusion of the objective and subjective, some kind of maxim. Perhaps, the objective should be accepted as what is given, not further rationalised or expanded and proceed from that. Not thinking of it as a road to enlightenment, but more as a way of faster or better processing/thinking, good enough, not perfect.

I think it depends on how a person is orientated. From C.G.Jung Personality types: Cogito, ergo Cogito (I think, therefore I think) Introversion(Subjective). Or Est, ergo est (it is, therefore it is) A is A. Extroversion(Objective).

Green; Happy as a Hippo. I think Ben Stiller plays a Yellow - Orange Actuary, Character in the movie "Along came Polly". A Yellow -Green Character in "Meet the Parents". Yeah, as a way of thinking I have an inkling towards yellow, though only scratched the surface. I think very few people are full yellow, and even if they were sometimes, I think there needs to be a kick sometime to jolt someone out of one stage to another, environmental or otherwise. Not just spoken language, but how the mind itself operates & integrates with the whole, blows my mind. Carving the world up dualistically has it's uses, but to think non-dualistically and successful intergrate that, one major challenge. I think people do it to a certain extent, unconsciously and conscious through God(the unrealised self, or otherwise). It's funny how different colour can get associated with different things. Sometimes different colours in nature can mean danger. Purple: Tend to think of Idol worship associated with royalty, purple being a royal colour. Red: Ego centric, kind of synthetic. Star Wars Sith!!!! Blue: Dogmatic morality. Stars Wars JEDI!!! Orange: I guess there's the Dutch, can't get much more materialistic. Green: Environmental, Ecological and Relationship based. Yellow: Tend to think of the Sun (Self), that burns on it's own fuel. Turquoise: A composite, is a mix of silver and copper. Tend to think of it like plates on a tortoise.

Materialism - Deterministic; Theres is no Morality or Evil (delusional), instead what you really are thinking of is utility. "Existence precedth essence." The fact of being comes before consciousness. Although materialism has it's advantages, in one sense it is perhaps the most empirical you can be, if taken to it's logical outcome. Neutral Monism - Oblivion; Consciousness is a potential property of matter. Once you die nothing has to remain, as a necessity, not even an echo. Freewill exists as a potentiality, an accumulation of a "Will to Power" never reached. Such as infinity "existing" as a potentiality. Things exist becasue they can. "Amor Fati" (Love of Fate) Idealism - Mind of God; Consciousness is primary. It maybe possible, to come to know apart of the mind of God through morality or other means. Freewill may exist as an actuality, The mind of God itself, perhaps. --------------------------- Panpsychism - Everything (a Monad) has an individual apriori revelation of the divine. So your chair is compromised of mutliple souls. Everything that occurs is divinely inspired, means that anything negative that happens will ultimately be "The Best of all worlds". Dualism - Mind(Soul) is Distinct, from Matter. Once you die your soul can remain. --------------------------- Personally I'm biased towards Neutral Monism. Though it does not explain creation, is that necessary? However, Idealism does have it's appeals. If Idealism were true, you are literally in a battle for your soul. I'm open to Idealism, but closed to the rest. I think pure Materialism is incorrect.

I would say stage Orange. "Material". Taken to its rational conclusion. Coupled with another stage. Beige (Masculine) - "Basic Instinct", "Species". Purple (Feminin) - Idol worship. God King or Queen. Red (Masculine) - Dominance. Blue (Feminin) - Protection. Orange(Masculine) - Material. ------------------------ Green (Feminin) - Relationship based. Yellow (Masculine) - Complimentary to the self. Empirically values based.

Green - Ego Inflation. (Common Good). Possibly increased through Yoga, Psychedelics. Yellow - Ego jacked more into the person's empirical self. Less dualistic. The self observing Ego. I'd imagine there's possibly ways to feed various stages or to come to discredit or embrace various aspects.

I would say no. Perhaps unpacking emotions might help, have a few thoughts. Joy, Happiness, Love. Trust, Acceptance, Solemnity. "Where there is trust, mean nature can not enter." Bram Stroker's Dracula. Nausea, Confusion, Pandemonium. “All is not lost, the unconquerable will, and study of revenge, immortal hate, and the courage never to submit or yield.” Primordial Emotion, Pleasure, Pain, Hunger & Thirst. Honor, Shame. ------------------------------ Truth. Dislike, Disgust, Revolt. Fear, Terror, Horror. "Horror has a face, and you must make a friend of horror. Horror and moral terror are your friends. If they are not, then they are enemies to be feared. They are truly enemies." Rage, Anger, Hatred. "A stick sharpened at both ends."

Why would you want to move up, in stages of consciousness or to a different "consciousness area"? Could be like Hamlet(a dead end), a renaissance man, stuck in a medieval world. God and Country!

@John Iverson I would have thought stage Blue, are the criminals & saints. Crimes and Punishment. Given the pletothra of modern laws/regulations, everyones probably a criminal, to some degree if you go by that.

Old Testament (Red) overcome/subjugate(usually massacre) the idol worshipping cultures of stage purple. "Canonisation"(Ecclesatiscal Law) of the New Testament to stage Blue.

Does it matter? compared to what?