William Waters

To All... One of my favorite subjects Language, Symbolic expression of all kinds... I have, what may be considered by many, somewhat radical things to "say" about "saying", a really tricky business... There is, in most of our minds (perhaps subconsciously), a conviction that there is an equivalence of symbols (especially language) to "reality", even all realities that may be found or exist, given that we can find or create the proper word or symbol.... But, in fact, Language is more like artwork or even finger painting, that we use to attempt to express our experience or perceptions... Our forgetting that that there is no correspondence (at all) to reality in our symbols, except as we imagine and/or agree with each other, is perhaps the greatest threat to the continuation of our species that exists... History is our witness to the willingness we have to attack, and defend at all costs any who challenge our "words" and what we think they stand for or mean... It really appears that there is little interest in making new or fresh adaptations to what we call "language".... So, the making of observations (as above) does not necessarily validate the choice of expression or necessarily provide the wisdom of how to proceed... (my disclaimer ;))

@Revolutionary Think The coexistence of diverse views seems like a noble idea, one I would certainly subscribe to, but it is not widely held and does not seem to be gaining any ground. Most philosophical or religious or political positions (even those that claim otherwise) end up excluding others in one way or another. As individuals it is possible to be more idealistic and if we actually realize our own ideals to try to share them with others but it is not a "slam dunk"...

@Nahm I certainly agree that our symbols are expressions of our heart/mind, but these expressions are more like artwork and thus only have a token or impressionistic relationship to our experience. But, it is fairly common for us to feel that "reality" (whatever that may be) is somehow essentially equivalent to what we have to say about it... If we believe that only our words are sufficient as a way to understand anything at all then we are simply subscribing to a kind of ignorance that threatens our existence as a species...

To all... Appreciate all the responses and invite others as well... The bullet item that is of most interest to me is "o Enamored with symbolic forms..."... Of course the ability of us to create and use symbolic forms (language and all of its derivatives) is perhaps the primary distinction of our dominance over other creatures that we know of... However the conviction that we can model our experience in ways that will allow us to become intimate with its nature or "know" it and thus circumvent our need for personal experience, seems extremely dangerous.. Generally we seem to have little recognition of this issue and plunge forward into "survival" and its comforts with little or no concern for any long term consequences... any comments?

It often seems that we humans are our own worst enemy... I am a little over 80 now and have spent most of my life trying to "learn" or "see into" or "recognize" or just "appreciate" the nature of being human and have found many more inherent obstacles than inherent ability... Some of the obstacles have been: o Gullibility... A willingness to accept and be influenced by any explanations or interpretations of human experience that I become exposed to... o Addictive... Easily willing to adopt the habitual patterns of my family, peers, tribe, community, culture.... o Unable to distinguish between my own creations and perceptions.... o Enamored with symbolic forms... o Reactionary... feeling threatened by conflicting views... o Tending to adopt extreme views... Not only have these been huge obstacles to growth and understanding for me, but most often appear to be the basis for the behavior of others... It really seems there is little if inherent interest among us to do more than survive.... Is this only some sort of cynical nightmare?