LRyan

I Have been contemplating a lot of things for a while and I came to this thought that maybe we came here from our universal source as divine entities to experience suffering......Think about it, when we leave our physical form, we will return to source energy, spirit, whatever you want to call it. In THAT place as THAT, there can be no suffering right? So is it too far fetched that our purpose was to come here to experience suffering as a human being and then the goal of that suffering is to try to realize, while on earth, that we are not the body or the mind? It seems that every human suffers and some relentlessly. It has to happen this way I believe. I think that the more suffering/challenges/obstacles we face as a human being, the more of a challenge we have given ourselves on this earth as a test to our true spirit. Maybe the game is to see who can overcome them. Maybe we as spirit decided how challenging our human life would be. There are people that have somewhat of a smoother life and there are those that suffer extreme amounts. Maybe the ones that suffer more are challenging their spiritual nature more? Has anyone ever thought this way? On a personal note, I am really getting to the belief that we are nothing but pawns in a big chess game that we are just a bunch of actors whose script is written and we just go through the motions. Yesterday I found out that my son, who is a beautiful person, exceptional human being, he is so kind and gentle and would give his shirt away to anyone is infertile and cannot afford the $30,000. for a one time chance at having a baby with his spouse. Yesterday I found out that my daughter who has one child that she did not want, is now pregnant with twins. She has an alcoholic husband and a dysfunctional relationship. Also, my mother has bladder cancer and I don't believe she will make it. My heart breaks for everyone's pain in this world. I am trying to understand and separate myself from my family's pain but I don't know how. My soul is crying for them.

So how many people on the earth are not suffering? Probably 0. So why is it so far fetched to say that we came here to experience suffering? I'm still not convinced. The more I learn, the less I know. Just seems to be more questions than answers the deeper you dig. Trying to understand what is not possible to know. I appreciate all the points of views expressed and I can actually agree with most if not all because, we just do not have the answers, so suffering will happen and we cannot deny suffering....not for long. Looks to me like we came here to know what suffering feels like and then to experience how to overcome it and come to a place of peace while in human form. Wouldn't that be the greatest challenge for a soul?

This all makes a lot of sense to me. I think constant reminders of the false self have to be in your mind to snap you out of it because it's a pattern isn't it... If suffering helps you stay alive then how did enlightened beings live their life? They were not suffering were they? I realize you need to experience bad to know what good is or how would we define our experience? OR maybe there is no good and no bad there are just things but really, we cannot escape our mind or our thoughts or feelings. I still think that we as the divine/spirit/source knew we would suffer in human form and maybe the challenge we set for ourselves was to experience pain and to overcome it. Why is that something that could not be in the realm of possibility?

@SLICKHAWK Thanks for the perspective...I see what you mean about a choice but there is no refuting that there are emotional tolls that happen when family is sick or dies...we are human, and how do you separate the suffering when you have feelings of sorrow or angst? How do you say "feel nothing" when a loved one is ill and in pain? You can't just choose to feel great when that happens. Yes, there are choices sometimes but being human comes with emotions that you can't just turn off...or maybe people can, but maybe just not to wallow in the pain, feel it, don't deny it and then try to move on? I dunno.

Well IF that is the case then this car is shitty and I want a new one. Maybe a Bentley. Seems to be a common theme...come here...... innocent.....suffering happens, probably to everyone.......then the game is on........who will learn how to play the game.......who will win the prize...... the prize is peace. Game on.

I know that is not a word to ever use - "Should"........I think I am doing something very wrong in my seeking to better my self and my life. I have been putting in serious time, doing self inquiry, meditation, a lot of good things. This forum has helped me come to such wisdom in ways that I wouldn't have bee able to realize. I am like my own guru with a backup team here. But, IF we make a huge mistake after we have done all this work, isn't it MORE painful because of all we know and then go ahead and make the same old mistake that you used to make? WHY can't I ever really learn anything that will stick with me when I really truly need guidance? It's like if I hadn't worked so hard to understand my self more I might have felt less pain because now I have the guilt that I SHOULD KNOW BETTER BY NOW! Yesterday, I really made a fall back into the pit of suffering and nothing that I have learned or read or watched could help me stop it :(. I am so disappointed in myself because I KNOW better than to freak out, get mad, name call try to control a situation but I did all of that, mostly in texts as a response to an ignorant thing that my son in law did. It's going to sound so silly and trivial to you all because you are not involved emotionally but my daughter's birthday is coming up and all she wants it to go away for one night to escape her very busy life. Her husband who is neglectful to her and my granddaughter and who has a major drinking/chain smoking problem texts me AFTER he texted literally everyone else including my ex husband.....(I know that's when my ego came in)...he tells me almost as an afterthought that hes planned a big BBQ at my daughters house as a surprise and wants my help to distract her for a few hours. He told me last, didn't tell my sister or my mother or brother so ignored her own family, but involved his own family and her friends. He knows this is the exact opposite of what she wants, she's made it loud and clear that she needs a break. He will end up drunk, her house will be wrecked and she will be miserable. This bothers me so much I can't say how much! I just want my kids to be happy. After his text I offered to pay for their hotel and watch my grandchild for the entire weekend so that he could take her away like she wants. She does not want her house trashed by a bunch of his drunk family members which always happens. The point is that I freaked out texting my sister, telling her how ignorant he was to not even discuss this and ask me what I thought, I ended up telling my mother who is sick about this because she happened to call me right at this time. She cannot stand this irresponsible, selfish person who promised he would stop drinking at their wedding and take good care of her. He lied to all of us. I called him a jerk, asshole, dick to anyone I could text about this. Why did this happen? For almost every other aspect of my life I am aware of my actions and can observe what I am doing and making sense out of my life but when it comes to my children, I can't do it. To make things worse, all night I felt so guilty because I thought I was on the path to Self Actualization and a deep awareness of myself and who I really am and that this is all being run by an intelligent system and what is happening is happening. I told myself surrender to what is happening and just trust that this is right and maybe she has to suffer more to realize that he has taught her enough and move on to a life without an addict. I feel so guilty that I was on a runaway train last night and I felt totally neurotic. I picked up my books and came on here to look at videos in an attempt to take the"High Road" as Matt Kahn says....always take the high road, represent your very best kind self....... but how....how? I might be approaching all of this seeking wrong because it isn't getting through to me. Have you heard of people that are just incapable of changing? Maybe my ego is too strong. Maybe I haven't suffered enough. I don't know what I need to do differently. I'm very upset about this. Any input would help. I want to stop this so much, it's my whole aim right now to feel good and do good and be whole and perfect as we were created... Has anyone made any big mistakes after learning so many good things and after putting in some good hard work? Is there a way back without the guilt? I am so disillusioned.

I am a newbie to self discovery or whatever term anyone uses to describe seeking. I didn't want to write this question but I had to. Can anyone consider that there is too much information available? Just consider it. I have only discovered Leos site a month ago so I feel like I am desperately trying to absorb all aspects of information for all sources. I am going through phases of latching on to different teachers, Eckhart Tolle, Deepak Chopra, Dr. Wayne Dyer. Then I discovered this site and watched at least 15 videos of Leo's intermittently while being taken in different directions and latching on to Mooji then Rupert Spira, then back to Eckhart then various videos posted here and then last night Jim Newman's teachings. I am being honest when I say I feel more lost than found. I expected a gradual increase in knowledge, contemplating different ideas but I feel like I am in a whirlpool of thoughts, ideas, different interpretations of what is right wrong or why nothing is happening right now so there is nothing to do. I'm more confused and have more anxiety about all of this than before I found all of this. Could I be seeking too much? I am spending 6 or 8 hours a day looking for something. Has anyone felt like they were going crazy trying to pluck info. out of this seemingly infinite source? Really mixed up here.

You are absolutely right my friend. We must listen, we are the authority of our own selves right?

Thanks for your reply! I get what your point is of by relinquishing power and giving up the need or search or thought that you can obtain power, you then become powerful. That resonates with me. I believe this was meant to happen to show the result of a lack of self love in myself and that it is totally fine to do things that in our own best interest and it's ok...it is not the ego, it's self love. This is what I believe. I put my love for her desires above my own self love and I got punished for it. It is not my job to change the world as they say and until my son in law shows some effort, any effort at all, I will keep away from that part of her life and not get pulled into the drama because it is their responsibility to figure things out. I am not a person who digs into peoples lives if I am not asked to help. I mostly listen and try to offer help. If none is wanted, then I can't do anything.

@Arkandeus @SOUL Thank you both so much for your kindness and your thoughts on what happened. I have learned a lot from all of you and it is helping me not to crucify myself. If this was two months ago I would have been in very bad shape, mentally punishing myself but I know that things that seem "bad" happen for a reason and this might be a time as you both said, for me to learn how to forgive myself. I'm not very good at that. I do believe that we need these tests of faith, faith in the universe that nothing is ever wrong and that love is what matters. If I was loving towards myself I would have never responded in this manner and actually this was a response that is way out of character for me. Weird things are happening to me. I find myself doing things that I would never have considered before. It is as if I am putting theses challenges out there for myself so I grow and learn. It is strange what has been happening to me but I believe it is a period of health growth. I believe I am learning to love and trust that I am whole and perfect as I am and if I embrace that, I will have peace. I was putting my daughter's happiness above my own. In trying to make her happy, I created turmoil for myself. But the turmoil was an opportunity for me to reflect on why this happened to me, what was the cause and effect. I can understand why this occurred. I think this looks like the opportunity I've been waiting for to grow to love myself and that in doing that, find inner peace. Does that make sense? I can see no other learning or lesson. I have given myself to others for my entire life so far but I believe my lessons are to come back to my center and be peace, for myself...which will serve everyone. Namaste!

Happy Birthday Leo!! You are such an inspiration to me! Thanks so much for putting this site together for the benefit of SO MANY beings!! YOU ROCK!!

Sorry, I worded that wrong, they live together at their house....I said my daughter's house probably because subconsciously I might refer to it that way because she is the breadwinner and pays for almost everything. A lot of his earnings go to his addictions. Yes maybe she would have appreciated the thought of it. That is true. I know her..... and I think I know how she feels about him being drunk and leaving a mess to clean up. The effort he made would be soon lost on the execution. She complained to me on Saturday after going shopping for the BBQ with him that she couldn't imagine how he would have done this without her because he had nothing ready no food nothing for drinks etc. He didn't even have enough money to buy the food for the BBQ so she had to pay for it. He spent A lot of money on the beer though. That was the first thing he bought. I know I am coming off as bitter and mean and intrusive to their lives but I have lived with listening to her sorrows over him for a long time and I am just exhausted of all of this crap really and truly.... I've tried to help in many ways but ultimately it isn't my decision to live with an alcoholic that doesn't want to change..

I'm just referring to the notion that we are all energy/consciousness and that I believe we are all part of an intelligent universal system where there are no accidents and everything has a purpose. I can't prove that and you're right, it is a belief I have. What do mean by take away my agency? Can you please explain?

@philosogi You are right in that I do not have good communication with some people, especially my son in law. I am deep down angry at him that he promised to stop drinking and to be the best husband and father he can be and he has not done that and I have never stuck my nose in it, I have tried to help in other ways like making many calls to find out where he can get treatment and how to go about it. I've offered my daughter to watch my granddaughter so SHE could go to an Alanon group to find out how she can cope. She will not make any move to better her situation so I have waited on the side for her to decide to choose another life. For this reason, I couldn't express my feelings to him, we are not close in an emotional way, just surface friendly. I recently went on a 7 day caribbean trip with them and my granddaughter and I saw how dysfunctional their relationship. I did interfere where I shouldn't have and it caused me so much stress and my daughter. I told her about the surprise because I thought she would be stressed out if he did it that way and I caused a tsunami of bad blood and hell for all. I told her because I really thought he would change his mind and take her away for one night. He didn't and she said he was devastated and was crying when she told him she knew. She also thought he would change his mind and take her away. I received many angry texts from him Friday night where he was swearing at me, telling me I ruined the party and saying that was all he can afford right now. My daughter also told me that she had been crying too because she felt bad for both of us because we were both trying to make her happy. In the end, my daughter said they spent more on the BBQ. I know this was all my fault. Period. Lesson learned. BUT I cannot listen to my daughter daily when she complains about how drunk and irresponsible he is and then refusing to do anything herself. NO amount of spirituality will let me harm myself again in being the one to interfere and cause destruction. My heart was in the right place, I was only trying to see that she was happy.

Yes the lure of the spiritual sugar high is alive and well within me. I see it and I recognize it and so far I have not given in to the urges to run and "get" what I need because I really do know that I have what I need it's just a bit difficult trying to sort it out and then when yo think you understand exactly what is going on and you feel really good and are going along fine, something life throws you seems to get me off course again and then I have to steer the ship back to another direction and keep plugging along. I believe now that it is supposed to be like that but of course everyone wants to go through the fast food window of spirituality... McSoul drive through please!!!

@FirstglimpseOMG I know the feeling of almost being in a hurry to learn more, get more info. I went on a binge and ordered 3 books but then by the time I got to the second one, the allure sort of wore off and I've only skipped through those other books. From now on I will not act so spontaneously to run out buy whatever it is that is intriguing me at the moment because that is the key word with me...the moment. I seem to be bouncing all over the place between different styles of teaching, Eckhart, Deepak, Wayne Dyer, Mooji, Rupert Spiria, Paul Hedderman, the books of Seth, Papaji, and the latest one that has got my daily attention is Matt Kahn. Every time I grasp a new way of hearing the insights I cling to that and then I immediately go online and look to see if they have any retreats coming up. I;ve done this for Mooji, Eckhart, Rupert Spiria and Matt Kahn. I almost seem desperate to myself to "find" something. I do believe that being near enlightened people puts you in contact with a certain energy field so I crave that but realistically, I can't run around the world seeking...can I? lol!

hmm. I wish...

What is it then to you?

Free will is in the way we perceive things.....That's where I see it. That's free will...

You cannot actually be nothing or be just awareness period. You ARE a human body right now and nothing, no thing, no amount of awareness or understanding or intellect will change the fact that you are in a human body and because of that you will have a human experience. Being manifested as a body is the only way consciousness can have an experience in object consciousness. It's all good that we have the intellect to discover that we are not this body or mind but, we ARE this body an mind right now. Until your physical body dies, you can't be just awareness floating around in peace and love because you are a body with a mind. ALL spiritual enlightened beings still had to walk around using legs and arms and eating and going to the bathroom. WE cannot escape the body we are in.......I don't believe we can be other than a physical body while we are alive on earth. I'ts like we all want to just turn into a divine spirit RIGHT NOW. We will soon enough, when we transcend our body upon death. Then we can all be what we seem to want right now. To me all of us trying to be a spirit with mystical properties that do not co-relate to a physical body is not possible in that sense. Yes, we know what we truly are but we can't fully know it at the moment that we are in physical form... Pure consciousness isn't possible for the human being...................This is my UNPROFESSIONAL opinion. Mental masturbation hurts! It's called suffering!

Amazing, thanks for posting!

Guys, I'm really in a bad spot, I thought I was losing my mind today but not the way I want to lose it. I've been going along in a relatively safe bubble, I'm off work so I have a lot of time at home to myself.. except for the incessant calls from my family with one catastrophe or another. I've been a good student, doing my self enquiry, meditating trying to stay present, trying to not attach thinking to any negative thoughts but today I was thrown into a pit of hell. Everything seemed to boil over, work issues re: money, issues .. work related negative phone calls, trying to find a therapist, physical pain issues, back pain and nerve damage in my legs..I was literally running around the house trying to dig up papers that are needed to be faxed and my cell phone had issues, my tv had problems. i thought I was doing ok until I realized that my mind must be tricking me into thinking that I have things under control when im obviously not in control or I haven't made any progress. I feel defeated like all I have been doing is a joke. How can everything turn so bad when I thought I was getting better. I just realized how unconscious I've been for the last few days. I've been asleep and I can't stop it ive had this nagging thought for a very long time... I want to sell everything I own and walk away from it all and go live off the grid and get the hell away from society and every little destructive thing it does to people. How will I ever feel peace? It's all I ever ask for is peace and I get only a tiny glimpse of it then it is snatched away from me again. I'm so tired of the battle within myself. I feel like I'm on a train to somewhere I don't want to go but I can't get off because it's going too fast. thanks for reading. I truly appreciate this forum.

Do any of you find some of the books on the list to read such as the 6 Pillars of Self Esteem, in conflict with the teachings of spirituality. For Example, in the sample of this book it tells you to trust your mind and that it is a fundamental need of the human being. Self Esteem is confidence in our ability to think he says. To trust ones mind is the essence of self-esteem. He is saying it inspires behaviour... It tells you to not dis-trust your mind. What do you think? I'm trying to decide whether or not to purchase it but it seems in opposition to spirituality.

People bring vicious dogs out in public on a leash all the time where I live unfortunately. I've seen them try to break loose to attack other dogs or run at people. I'm also scared of dogs even when on a leash because of this. I think there must have been some spontaneous inner knowing that is occurring.

Inspiration doesn't get any better than this