AstralProjection

Yeah psychedelics alone can't make one enlightened. Well unless they take a good 5-meo-dmt dose on there deathbed then yeah maybe. But yeah it takes a lot more than just psychedelics to become enlightened. But like I alluded to before even if we could just measure half of what it take physically in the brain/mind to become enlightened then we are already half way to enlightenment.

Well we will institute a universal basic income before we are expected to compete with strong AI. As far as strong AI taking over. Well that is still highly hypothetical right now.

These were already covered in my post about how science and spirituality will merge. Spirituality at it's heart is being able to go inward. But there are certainly other forms of spirituality such as compassion, learning which genes are associated with an ethical brain/mind, etc. And yes the Buddha had to physically change his brain to reach enlightenment. So just as Leo can take physical substances like psychedelics and go inward to enlightenment, so to can we study the enlightened brain/mind and find out what kind of chemical reactions, genes, and nervous system modifications it takes to create an enlightened mind. And then we can replicate that in other humans. It's just a matter have getting more and more sophisticated forms of measuring tools to measure the brain/mind and body, and then replicating it in other humans. Even if for the sake of argument not all of the aspects of enlightenment or nirvana can be measured, we should certainly be able to measure enough to make a difference in our spiritual evolution.

Leo what does morphing and technologically altering ourselves look like to you?

I agree with that, though as you know from seeing my post about how science and spirituality will merge, eventually there will be no way for us to escape the spiritual, because we it society will inevitably discover it and evolve into it.

@Outer And yeah I agree that we don't have the technology yet to do genetic augmentation the way I am talking about by increasing intelligence. But it will be done. Not only for intelligence but also spiritual traits such as higher awareness and empathy. All you have to do is follow the logical progression of scientific advancement to see where this is going to end up.

I agree that we generally are very intelligent, that is compared to our ancestors. All I am saying is that we are stupid and primitive compared to how smart and spiritual we could be with genetic augmentation. So genetic augmentation can really help with reaching that new level of intelligence and spirituality.

OK so what are we debating? LOL

@Prabhaker And I love Osho, he's quite a character.

@Prabhaker I feel like we are getting off track from our original conversational topic which is "We are so stupid and primitive compared to what is possible with genetic augmentation." Can we agree on that?

They know about the nature versus nurture debate, which is what I thought you were referring to when you said, - "We are not born stupid, but our upbringing is stupid." And they don't have to know about spirituality. But they can study the functions of consciousness through behavior and cognition. They do it by looking at twins separated from birth. The conclusion is that both nature and nurture play a role in their outcomes. And you will be surprised at how much nature counts. And by nature here I am talking mostly genetics. Twins Separated at Birth Reveal Staggering Influence of Genetics www.livescience.com/47288-twin-study-importance-of-genetics.html

Ahh the good old nature versus nurture debate. After taking college level courses in psychology, sociology, child development, and child psychology I can tell you that both nature and nurture are at work. And by stupid I mean low intelligence. So yes I still hold that we need to upgrade our DNA for not only prevention but also enhancement . Nice to have you chime in Prabhaker.

These are exceptions to the rule. As a starting point there are 4,000 genetic diseases we need to fix.

Yeah homo-sapiens has to go. We need to upgrade our DNA. We are so stupid and primitive compared to what is possible with genetic augmentation.

I know about ego death and I've experienced, though not as deep as Leo has. And I am well aware of the potential of DMT in near death experiences. I'm just having a hard time with some of the things Leo is saying on top of his ego death.

@Leo Gura I am saying that the physical was created conceptually and subjectively billions of years ago and that it's also now objectively used. Is there something wrong with that? Can't they both exist conceptually and objectively at the same time? Certainly when we create something we conceptualize it and then build it. So yes both conceptive and objective creation is common. Am I missing anything?

Yes I've heard of that years ago. But that happened billions of years ago during the big bang. We are past that already. If I want to reincarnate my spirit consciousness doesn't create my physical form. We have physical DNA tests for that. And DNA editing technology called CRISPR-Cas9.

Leo I am getting concerned that your getting a bit crazy. How do you define physical? BTW in the astral projection community death is more known as permanently transitioning, or phasing to the afterlife where you can't come back to the same physical body because it can't support your spirit anymore and thus died. Leo I think you would do well studying aspects on death in near death experiences and astral projection. Your view of death was that of a psychedelic, most people don't physically die under the use of psychedelics. Love you regardless Leo.

Yeah your talking about Yoga Nidra. This is when your body and brain are asleep but your conscious awareness is still awake.

Well if you really want to kick your ego's ass take some 5-meo-dmt. Other than that you might want to try reprogramming your subconscious mind in conjunction with meditation. Do some self talk just before your meditation. Play some music while meditating for a while. It might be a training wheel but that is fine if your first starting out. As an alternative you might do much better with astral projection which is a type of meditation. In the end your going to have to try many different things and see what works best for you. But yeah what your going through is totally normal. Keep up the good work Durka_Durka.

On a related note this is why I plan on ending my life in old age with a psychedelic and nembutal. It will be the most beautiful painless way to go. And it just might release me from the samsara the cycle of death and rebirth. And if not that it would likely release me from negative karma. The meditating religions of the world stress the importance of having a good peaceful death, so much so that some of them even recommend one commit suicide (Sallekhana among others) in order to prevent the body from gaining a ravaging disease and messing up their transition to the afterlife.

My thought on this is that getting shot would just shatter you not only your mind but your conscious awareness and it won't be a pleasant experience in the last seconds of being here or when your consciousnesses phases out of this reality from a gun shot IMO you'll have to evolve as a shattered consciousness from that point on, so you'll never be the same again. But since Leo's consciousness in that experience has already phased him out of this physical reality then he just might have a peaceful death if he got shot at that moment. But who knows for sure.

Oh I get what Leo is saying. Correct me if I am wrong Leo, but it seems that what your saying is that our current biological bodies and minds are way to primitive to evolve into the future. So what will likely happen is that we will create human 2.0 and above which will lead us to be much better bodies and minds both spiritually and cognitively. And yes I think this is what is likely going to happen. It's very similar to transhumanism.

That isn't true. Some of the smartest people are taking about the potential thread of strong AI if we are not careful. This isn't a problem that we will have to deal with in our lifetimes but probably in 125 years once we have full automation according to experts. I yeah in general I am more optimistic about the future than Leo it seems.

I would be very careful with edible weed as it's going to be stronger than if you smoked it, since it gets converted into psychoactive substances by the liver that you normally don't get through just smoking. Again just start off low dose for whatever you doing. That is what Alexander Shulgin does when he tests new psychedelics that he creates.