Ananta

@Joseph Maynor It means lets not forget that the "apparent" person is not perfect. It is what it is and we remain associated with it, we have to remember it's an ever changing object in an ever changing field of objects and staying vigilant is a way to stay humble and free from it.

Ok Yep, sure does! Yep, yep, yep! This is true, BUT it's "determined" if one will be "free of thought". You can not control the degree in which you are free of will-desire (even if it "feels" like you can). Therefore, freedom from determined action, is determined. Lol Yes, it makes perfect sense. Once one is free (I'd say liberated), one will still have their quirks, preferences and what not, but any binding desires/fears are neutralized. Meaning, you can do them, not do them or do something different. They also know they are not the doer/enjoyer...hence, there is freedom, as you said. But, even all.. THAT.. is determined..lol. ..and the price of freedom, is constant vigilance, for the "apparent" person.

Hell, went to bed at 11pm and got up for work and this thread blew up...lol. @Faceless I'll post when I can in response to your "reply" post.

I'll take your word for it. Lol

Heck, no alien's for me! I have enough trouble figuring humans out.

♡♡♡ Yes, it's true we sometimes forget and don't feel so free, but it's ALL part of the dream story. All of it, even the forgetting and waking back up. Remember though, we don't know what's determined and since it will still feel like free-will, always try your best.

Have you ever stopped to think that even "this", is determined.

So, once this is truly understood, the importance of this topic just falls away or it did for me. ♡

This is a hard topic to understand, but if you feel you have free will, you best exercise that will. My take is that free-will betrays your causal programming. Therefore, ultimately, free-will equals determinism. However, it will continue to "feel" like free will to the apparent person you appear to be. So, to know what is determined, you must exercise your "apparent" free-will. You have to "hold" both perspectives, which makes it a difficult topic to grasp.

Someone's answer depends on what "perspective" they are answering from, in the moment they give their answer. From the perspective of awareness, all this is illusion/dream, but from the "apparent" persons perspective, it's all very "real", even if "ultimately" illusion. You can say all day long that there is no brain, but if you're kid is diagnosed with brain cancer and needs brain surgery and radiation, it may become more real for you, as you have to toggle back and forth between "both" perspectives.

Nice ♡

@Joseph Maynor Gotcha

Ps, you must not be married ...or she IS the "green" person.

@Joseph Maynor Lololol ..oh god, that was funny.

Sorry if I mis-understood.

@Viking Said- "do you think young people got a shot at enlightenment?" Ramana Maharshi was only 16 when he became liberated. Welp, the problem with this is that you won't become the best human being. You'll find you really arent a human being after all. or should I say, it's only "apparently" real. If you recognize/realize your true nature and feel "special", then you have enlightenment sickness. The ego has claimed "it" is enlightened.

I also don't dream and/or I don't have dream recall anymore. It's been many years (8, I think). Most likely it's that I don't have dream recall, since I hear everyone is suppose to dream. Anyways, it "normal" for me now, but when I think about others having nightly dreams and I dont, its odd. They deal with 3 states, waking, dreaming and deep sleep. I only have 2, waking and deep sleep. I'm glad I don't have a third anymore. .lol. It's hard for me to remember nightly dreaming also.

I actually don't take Self-realization (recognition of one's true nature) to be the same as enlightenment (full assimilation of that recognition), but I know some do.

I'm not really saying that you are liberated. Anyway, numbness is an object known to you. So what if you feel numbness? Why is it something "you" have to or even can, overcome?

Let me back track a moment... liberated people still have desire/fears, but they are non-binding, so they don't have to act on them, but they can or they can do something else. Also, habits that aren't opposed to dharma are fine.

So, you have no attachments? No habits, no desire, no fear? None. If this is true and you are Self-realized and you know you aren't the doer/enjoyer, then you're liberated (enlightened).

I forgot to answer the question. Yes, I do, but I flip back and forth between the "awareness channel" and the "person channel", depending on what's expected of me and where I'm at. Example- work can be high stress, fast paced and many thoughts arise to deal with the issues ( "person" channel). At home relaxing, low stress and low expectations. (Awareness channel).

If nothing else, at least you got a good laugh out of it.

Have you heard the saying from the Bhagavad Gita- "The one who sees actionlessness in action and action in actionlessness is wise". It means, "pure" awareness is actionless, always present and it permeates every-thing. "Reflected" awareness (objects- subtle and gross) is in action and constantly changing. When you can see they are "not two" seperate things (action and actionlessness). They are like the reflection in a mirror- how far is the reflection in the mirror, from the mirror itself? So, at any time, meditating or not, if there are thoughts/feelings/emotions, recognize and/or notice, if you can, actionlessness (awareness) in them (objects-action) and vice versa. So, they are you (created out of awareness, depend on awareness), but you are not them (pure awareness, substratum of all objects). Hope that made sense? Lol My point is you can allow them to be.