Ananta

Classic case of, can dish out criticism, but can't take any.

I didn't post on this thread, but just reading your responses to other people's posts was disturbing and triggering. Some people don't want to talk about their personal experiences, reactions, traumas and recovery on a forum- that's their right. It doesn't mean they can't post a comment or opinion regarding the OP's question. Why must you also write in bold and caps so much? That's like yelling the word or phrase at someone. If you want to spill your guts out on the forum, so be it, it doesn't mean others want to and they don't have to.

I didn't want to comment after I realized I misread your first post, because I couldn't tell what you were actually trying to say and with your forceful writing style and/or personality. I no longer cared what you were trying to say. Thats not being defensive, that's being "not interested", like I wrote. I slightly questioned this decision a bit later, so looked it over again and saw "many" changes to your 3 posts, so threw my hands up and said forget it. If you want to take that as a hand waive, so be it.

I see a lot of confusion on here about whether the "apparent" person you appear to be exists, is unreal or is an illusion. From the ultimate perspective, this entire phenomenal universe doesn't exist, is unreal and complete illusion. However, from the jiva/apparent persons perspective (enlightened or not), it "exists", as it can be "experienced", but it's unreal. The reason it's unreal is because it's constantly changing. The definition here of "real" is what never changes- awareness/consciousness. So, actually there are 3 perspectives in Vedanta- brahman/awareness perspective, Isvara's (creator-sustainer-destroyer) perspective and Jiva/apparent persons perspective. They are all valid depending on what perspective you are looking at. That's one of the reasons it can be so confusing.

My post wasn't meant to be all encompassing, of every realization and/or shift I've had up until now. I have no desire to write it out in detail. I dont see the point. Sorry, what I did share, didn't make sense to you.

My seeking started in 2009, so for the past 8 years I've been reading, watching videos and doing massive abouts of Self inquiry for quite awhile. There has been many epiphanies, insights, Self realization experiences, ect. I've known who I truly am for years, but this seemed to wax and wane a lot, meaning I would forget, because ignorance wasn't removed completely. It wasn't until Vedanta where a "shift" in identification happened. It's "mostly" firm, but that "mostly" means it's not 100%, yet. This is very common. So, for the most part it "feels" like I'm the "witness" (AKA- awareness), if that makes sense to you. On one hand im doing, but on the other hand, i know im not the doer. Most things in spirituality are a paradox. Hope this answers your question.

@Nahm The answer is, yes. I'll get back to this question when I have more time. Have a lot to do today.

Anna1 said- (enlightened or not) Yes, I know. My point is that even if you're enlightened the world still exists, its experienced, it's just not "real". Right, but it still exists, like I said above.

@Joseph Maynor I see you have now edited, therefore altered 3 of your above posts. Frankly, that's bullshit. Once someone has replied you should not go back and alter posts.

I have no intent, but to discuss the topic. Also, I stand corrected I miss read what you wrote. Yes, you write very forcefully. Not interested.

I already found the answer. I was questioning your "I may not exist" comment. No need to get defensive.

Did you read any of the posts, including the first one, where I tried to clarify the "exist " thang for peeps? Just wondering...

Who are you speaking to? ...and in what context.

@jimrich Perfect, then you have the correct understanding. I do as well. All other questions are a wash.

The quote you cited was talking about from the "ultimate" perspective.

Hallucination is preceiving something that not actually there. Where illusion, imo, is more appropriate, because the preceiving is correct, but what is preceived is a mirage, an appearance. It's a superimposition upon awareness, that makes awareness "appear" as something it isnt. So, it "exists", its experienced, it's just not ultimately "real". Also, ultimate reality, pure awareness is not "nothing", it is no-thing, there is a difference.

@kieranperez I'm a nurse and I say if you're on medication best talk to you doctor before trying to ween off of medication, for any reason. I'm on medication and it hasn't hindered me in any way.

"I" know I exist and I'm aware, I experience this...don't you? Somewhere along "my" journey I fell into the "I don't exist camp", it's part of the process I guess. I came out of that "idea" and realized, ah, actully I do...it's just not ultimately real. One day this body/mind will be 6 feet under.

@Prabhaker thanks, the story in my view is a tad different then Osho's. Either way, thanks. Btw, sorry for thinking you were someone else a while back. My mistake.

Do you have any other proof of this conversation other then from the mouth of Osho? As he obviously wasn't there to know.

Is this a Buddhism phrase? I'm a Vedantin. Anyways, we would say "seeing action in inaction and inaction in action". Which means Brahman is unchanging/still, while action (the phenomenal world) is changeful (action). So, Brahman is ever present, the background/substratum, attributeless, full, complete, awareness. The phenomenal "apparent" world "appears" within Brahman/pure awareness. So, Brahman is real, the apparent world depends upon Brahman for its "apparent" existence. As it is created out of/from Brahman.

Most mis-understand this, so wasn't going to get that deep, but since you brought it up! The "apparent" phenomenal world can be nothing other then, Brahman, because there is nothing but Brahman. However, it's "created" out of the substance-less substance which is Brahman. But, Brahman is not the world. So, to recap, the world IS Brahman, but Brahman is not the world.

It's the play (Lila), the "apparent" phenomenal universe, afterlife, channeling, NDE's, whatever...it's all included...why wouldn't it be. To throw some Vedanta in...it's Isvara creation, "all" of it. Oh, it absolutely is! Enlightenment is for the mind, intellect to be specific. Once Self knowledge removes ignorance of one's true nature and this knowledge is "firm". You see it was/is just a big joke. Awareness playing hide and seek with itself. Just my 2 cents.

It (the body) is an appearance "within", you, awareness. You (awareness/consciousness) don't move-you are ever present, the body (as well as all objects) moves within you.

Absolutely!