Ananta

@Natasha I don't watch Leo's vids, not that I'm against them or anything. I might out of curiousity if they weren't 60-90 min. long and I don't have the time. Anyways, what did you gather from these vids your referencing? Do you know anything about the cosmology taught in Vedanta and was it that that?

@Joseph Maynor oh, btw, when I used the word "me/I/you" I was referring to awareness. Not the "apparent" person I/we appear to be. Sorry, if that caused any confusion.

The experiencer is also part of Mithya.

Oh, sorry this is happening to you. This has happened to me in the past, emotional stuff just bubbling up out of nowhere (also not while meditating). I just sat with it, noticed it, didn't get caught up in a thought story about it and it would just resolve. Cry, scream, whatever..if it helps. Think of it as the unconscious mind purging itself. You are the "witness", of the purging, as long as you don't identify with it.

Things can just bubble up during meditation. You could just remain the witness/watcher OF it, instead of identifying with it. Sounds like something might be causing you to be anxious during your session? Are you trying to hard to get somewhere with it?

@Joseph Maynor It could be looked at different ways. One way is that anything phenomenal is awareness, meaning it's made out of/from pure awareness, so it's "not different" from pure awareness, in that sense. However, it is also "not the same" as it is Mithya (illusion), because it's always changing, temporary and inert. Pure awareness is never changing, always present and permeates every thing. It's the illuminating factor or principle that causes inert phenomena to become active/enlivened. So, you could say the world is me, but I am not the world. Another words, you can't be the world, because you are aware OF the world, but the world is you, awareness.

..and paradoxically your entire post was made out of combinations of words, so you could make your point.

Well, thank you. All teachings (including Leo's) are inherently dualistic, because the nature of language is dualistic. Even when someone says they have no perspective, that IS a perspective.

With all due respect, you ask tons of questions on this forum. Do you always just want neutral answers? Or are you looking to see if someone may have insights you may not have discovered yet? ..which may mean they have a point of view on the matter?... I have points of views on topics from 8 years of reading, self inquiry, meditation, videos, emails to teachers, ect. Why must I have a "neutral" outlook, if I know otherwise? That makes no sense. I'm not referring to this thread or my past post on here, but just in general. What is everyone so damn afraid of?

When did I say that? I said, "apparently there is no answer to "why"" and also said, "According to everything I've read that is a question that can't be answered." Then I said, " If you figure it out let me know". In summary, I have not found an answer in all these years. The gurus/masters (and Vedanta) I've read all say there is no answer to this question. So, I assume there isn't one, but I did say if YOU find one let me know.

@Joseph Maynor Hi, apparently there is no answer to "why", unfortunately. According to everything I've read that is a question that can't be answered. If you figure it out let me know..haha. Anyways, think of it like we are playing hide and seek with ourself.

They don't really feel those emotions like others do... It only appears such for the people who are watching them.. All the liberated person feels is ups and downs in energy, and a little bit of subtle sensations... In other words, their emotions are not really like the emotions of people who are unconscious. Emotions of people who are unconscious are very solid, opaque and they get powered by thoughts and emotions back and forth for a while.. Emotions of liberated ones are like tiny bits of distant clouds which disappear without any effort. I would feel hesitant to even call them as emotions.. @Shanmugam You were "correcting" what I said (is this fault finding to you?...hmmm)... This was your first response to me in this thread. So, when you say- "You started it by finding a fault in my post.. " That's actually not true. You started it. My subsequent response to you in this thread, was in regards to your post above. Where I simply said "pleasure and pain persist after Moksha" and you have become completely bent out of shape over it. Even though your very next post was- " I didn't say pain and pleasure doesn't persist... Read my post again" ?

Yes, it is and yes, it does.

Yes, It took 8 years...searching in the wrong places didn't help. Also, the times of falling unconscious again for awhile, until the trusty suffering aspect awakened me again. I remember many years ago, on another forum asking, "how do you stay awakened?" A long term member was giving me advice and I said, "No, you misunderstand" ...I don't remember this stuff "at all" for weeks at a time..lol. Suffering always brought me back, eventually.

You don't need it for the initial recognition, but you do to "assimilate" that Self-knowledge. Especially, if you have questions/doubts and most do. That's why after 6 1/2 yrs of neo-advaita crap I turned to Vedanta.

This ^^^ right here. Now, you have my answer. You referenced how could I know for 100% certain.... when did I say 100% certain? When? Please post the quote where I say for 100% certain, if you think such quote exists, of course it doesnt. You've made a huge deal over 3 sentences I wrote in a post.

You wanted to know where I was coming from with what I say...and I told you. When did you say to imagine a situation?

@Shanmugam So, you want to know if I'm enlightened? I think everyone is enlightened, because all are "the Self" (awareness). The only reason people don't recognize this is due to ignorance of their true nature, rajas/tamas (gunas) and mental tendencies/vasanas. Which is all the "illusion" of separation. Once, you know/apprehend your true Self (here 6 yrs ago) and that Self knowledge is firm (here-this year), the knowledge is always available (mostly) and you know you aren't the doer (this is interesting, because there's a sense of doership, but when looked at closer..no doer). Its like switching between the person channel and awareness channel (my teacher said something similiar). You don't always have the thought "I'm awareness" constantly running, but when called upon the knowledge is readily available. You play your role and do your duties (person channel), but when wanting completeness, perfection, ect. you tune into the "awareness" channel. Knowing how to navigate and switch channels is part of "assimilation" of Self knowledge. So, yes, Anna has emotions. They come and they go. Good example, tonight when I got home from work my husband told me my son who already has 2 car loans (and lives at home) bought a $30,000 truck yesterday . I yelled, "What!!!!" and I was pissed! It lasted 10 minutes, but now, it's gone. In conclusion, it doesn't matter what stage of Moksha I/Anna am at...I "got" the great cosmic joke. Essentially, none of this matters, except to remove one's suffering. There is no soul emancipation with any of this... how could there be? You are awareness and awareness is associated with the world, as well as being "all" the actors. If one actor dies, you'll be associated with another and so it continues.... Hopefully, your demand for an answer has been satisfied.

Actually, you said first- "They don't really feel those emotions like others do... It only appears such for the people who are watching them.. All the liberated person feels is ups and downs in energy, and a little bit of subtle sensations... In other words, their emotions are not really like the emotions of people who are unconscious." You seem rather "certain" in this paragraph you wrote. Yes, you then say, you were talking about yourself, but then in another post say, "I don't know what happens after Moksha". However, you used language in the excerpt above regarding a liberated person and said you were talking about your own experience. See your contradictions?? Lol... what is this an interview? Oh, that's convenient... Ok, make that my answer too, interview done...lol!

This seems to be the crux of your post. Suffering leads one to find a solution out of suffering. First, one tries to not suffer by finding worldly happiness in chasing objects (success, money, sex, power fame, ect). When you realize that these don't suffice, then the search is on! If you come across spiritual teachings and get hooked, you become a spiritual seeker and the story goes... Point being, it's generally the suffering that keeps reawakening someone to the spiritual path or is the initial awakener. So, no your life hasn't been a waste, it's gotten you to where you are right now. Which is to end your suffering. This doesn't mean the circumstances of your life will or need to change. It's the identification of who you've been thinking you are, that needs to change, to who you really are. Anyways, don't think of the past as a mistake. There are no mistakes. Most don't start seeking without some amount of suffering, it's the great awakener, therefore a gift.

Thanks!

@Shanmugam Sounds like you suffer from apathy... Pleasure and pain persist after Moksha! Difference is suffering ends. The feeling that you are in some foundational way diminished.

You may have painful emotions if your mom gets hit by a bus tomorrow... Emotions are like thoughts..out of your control and come/go.

Hmm, I think we had this same discussion on the other forum. It went no where on there and I suspect the same here. So, I will not comment further.

Oye, who/what are you defining as the perceptual field? Apparently, if its not what I said, then I do not understand.