Ananta

@Joseph Maynor It seems what I said triggered or disturbed you. I mean, talk about monkey mind, wow! Sorry about that. Have a good night.

You apprehend what you are, by seeing what you're not (Neti-neti). In seeing what your not, you see its unreality/falseness, then you can "BE" what you are. Beliefs need not apply.

Why do you say it's a belief? ....

Imo, Enlightenment is the recognition that the "apparent" you, isn't "you", never was.

It's the ego (I-thought), that is a special kind of thought, because it thinks it's real, that is the one afraid of death. In reality the body/mind is constantly changing (Inner- new thoughts/feelings, outer- cellular changes, wrinkles, etc), it could be said it's continuously dying and being reborn. Every night in deep sleep the ego and body, completely disappear. When you reawaken it's like being reborn. Extend that to afterlife realms, other life forms, reincarnation, ect. It all happens (if it exists) within awareness itself, the background, which permeates everything. Btw, what you really are can not be negated in Self inquiry, therefore it's the background/substratum and can't be negated with the death of the body/mind. Hope this helps a tad.

You currently are associated with the body/mind/sense organism. So, you think that it is you. This illusion is what needs to be seen through. Its the mind that is asking the questions above, as it wants to understand (that's reasonable), but when it starts asking should I just lay down and die. Be cautious. Ego can get a bit depressed when hearing some insights people say that it doesn't quite understand yet. Why is enlightenment a matter of urgency for you? Are you suffering? Are you suicidal? It's awakening "from" the body/mind, seeing it "ultimately" is an illusion (Mithya). Illusion feels very real, it has an "apparent" existence. When most believe its absolutely real, they are "asleep". The opposite term "awakening" is used for when one has insights/apprehends the great illusion is ultimately false. This understanding, clear seeing or whatever you want to call it, may only last a few secs to minutes in the beginning, then hours to days, etc. thats why it's called an awakening. It happens over time generally speaking do to the mind's mental tendencies to fall back into its routine patterns. It's spiritual, because it fits no other known category.

@Leo Gura @Azrael Thanks for the info. No, I could never do it personally. First, I have medical/medication reasons and second, I could lose my nursing license.

Really? ..and what are those countries? ...In the US, LSD is a schedule class I drug...right up there with heroin. If you get busted, it's the same penalty. He (Leo) does just have his own little posse here, doesn't he. It's absolutely amazing to me. State your opinion on a post and often times someone here will try to say either, "it's a concept!" Or "watch leo's videos"... you fell into the latter, very typical response from peeps on this forum. Even if they give a specific video, it never has what minute where to start the vid, relating to their point...no, they expect you to watch 60-90 min of, who knows what, to make their point. So, you might as well have said, I don't know what to think, unless its coming from a Leo video. I also can't tell you what they say enough to make any meaningful conversation, so I'll just tell you to watch them... lol. I'll tell you what I've said numerous times. I don't watch Leo videos. Not that I have anything against him personally. I didn't come here originally thinking I would or wouldn't watch his videos, but I don't care for the brainwashed effect many people here, imo, seem to have... If it has anything do to with Leo's "vids", then I'll just keep sayin', no thanks.

I remembered Tolle discussing that he had taken LSD once. I forgot about this. So, I looked for the clip. Here's what he says about it at 4:35.

This has got to be one of the most ridiculous things I have read in awhile. A drug "retreat".... Now you need a retreat to do drugs...bahaha How do they advertise for a retreat with illegal substances?? Do they screen recipients for mental illness or past episodes of psychosis? Is there a physician on-site if it, goes "bad"? Who get's the illegal drug charges if the retreat gets raided? ...just curious. I'm sure you've already asked they questions, so you're fully informed. Also, what's "very interesting" about someone becoming addicted to psychedelics? It's a drug, therefore can be abused. Sad really. Apprehension of one's true nature although mind blowing at first, does not require use of psychedelic's, at all. I'm sooo glad I didn't even hear of it as a serious method, until "this" forum. Therefore, I did not have to wonder if it was necessary, as I know it's not. It may be helpful for those that don't want to go the natural route. I wouldn't know, but needing to do it monthly, why? Did you not understand the trip the first time? Are you addicted to the "experience" of tripping? ...

Buy a crock pot! You can make tons of tasty meals easily. Examples- Pot roast and baby potatoes, baby carrots, 1/4 cup water and sprinkle a packet of dried french onion soup mix. Pork roast, rice, can of broth/water (amount depends on what rice needs in crock pot). Chicken breast, cut potatoes or rice, mix in a can of cream of chicken soup. (Add water if using rice) Etc.... Sloppy Joes are easy too. Hamburger, add dried mix and water. Ps, I don't know if you're a vegetarian if so, sorry!

He's probably not suffering much or its tolerable to him. Another words, there's no motivation to do the work. Lets face it, it's an enormous commitment, takes effort and some just aren't interested. He's no different then most of population.

@Arkandeus This seems like discrimination between you, awareness and the mind illusions (thought). I agree with using discrimination! You meet every experience with discrimination to break the hold of Self-ignorance, which is hard wired! Self knowledge though is not the arch enemy. It compliments by resolving doubts/questions, thereby calming and stilling the mind, so one can more effectively discriminate, imo.

Yes, let's burn the books, shut our mouths, never speak of any of this ever again, even if you're trying to help someone else. Ramana and Nisargadatta talked the rest of their lives about it, what we're they thinking? Once you've realized, just let others be confused. Just tell them to meditate for 50 years and if their real lucky maybe they'll have an epiphany or Self realize. Good plan.

This is a very simplistic view, imo. It seems like neo-advaita. If that's your thing and works for you, great. Others may need/want a bit more and there's nothing wrong with that either, imo. What does shut's the mind down mean to you? Is your mind shut down?

I'm going to repost what I said in another thread then comment after it. "I'll assume you mean by limited perspective, the body/mind? If that's the case (?), think of all apparent objects as being a hologram. An analogy- A room is filled with light (pure awareness/Brahman), then a hologram appears, "made of" light (awareness). Its superimposed upon/within the "light" in the room. Therefore, the light in the room is also "permeating" (Atman) the hologram. The hologram thinks it's an individual volitional entity, because it doesn't recognize it is made from/out of light. It doesn't apprehend the light in the room. All analogies break down at some point, but my point was to say the "real you" is the light in the room, not the hologram. The hologram exists (as its also awareness), but its temporary, therefore, ultimately its an illusion and dependent on the light itself for its apparent existence. So, all phenomena is a temporary "appearance" (created out of Brahman/awareness) due to the power of Maya and Isvara. Objects are superimposed onto/within Brahman, therefore Brahman "permeates" every-thing. When Brahman permeates a jiva/object, it's then "associated" with it, then its called Atman." Ok, so currently the "portion" of awareness/Brahman "associated" with the body/mind Joseph, has a limited perspective. This limited perspective is do to Maya and will continue until the death of the body/mind, then who knows. This limited body/mind is created out of awareness, permeated by awareness AND awareness reflects within the subtle body, therefore the mind (not brain). This reflection causes the sense of "I AM" in the mind imbued with awareness. From my analogy, the hologram can apprehend that it is actually "light", therefore not different from the light permeating the room or other holograms, but it can not see from the perspective of other holograms, because Self-realization and enlightenment happen with the intellect, an aspect of mind, of the individual "apparent" body/mind/sense complex. There are 3 perspectives that can be understood- First, is the perspective of Brahman/pure awareness- it is a witness only in a figurative sense and that's why they say from its perspective nothing is happening, which isn't really a perspective, since it does have a mind to know objects in the traditional sense. Then, Isvara (God) perspective- It's perspective is that it is the creator, sustainer and destroyer of all of manifestation. It is the puppet master and we (apparent persons) are the puppets. From Its perspective there is no free will for jivas, as it is the cause/effect of everything (3 gunas, vasanas, ect). That's why the jiva is not truly the doer. Jiva/persons perspective- we have thoughts, feelings, emotions, a transactional world, ect. For us this all seems very real. We feel that we have free will and choice, to some extent we do. In the sense that we need to listen to our internal promptings and make the best choices possible, but one could say that even that is coming from Isvara. The best we can do is realize/recognize/apprehend our true nature, which is awareness. Drop the identification with the body/mind and identify with our true nature, whilst simultaneously being "associated" with the "individual" body/mind. You will still have an I-sense after Self-realization. This is how you can transact business in the world, do your duties, take care of the body, ect, ect. It's a both/and understanding, not either/or.

@Joseph Maynor She seems to only be speaking about ego, which I don't concentrate on too much anymore. The ego is simply an I-thought that thinks it's real. On inspection (Self inquiry) it dissappears, so was never real to begin with. She is right, imo, you cant destory it, but you can transcend it (see its unreality). When I talk about cosmology I'm speaking Vedanta concepts such as- Brahman, Maya, Isvara, 3 gunas, vasanas, jiva, non-doership, ect. I know you are somewhat familiar or at least you've read about it a bit. Having a sound foundation in these terms, what they mean and how they fit together, when wielded by a skilled Vedanta teacher will answer every question that can be answered by a tradition regarding the nature of reality and what's happening phenomenally. Yes, this is my opinion and no, it isn't for everyone. So, it's a loose suggestion for those who may want to go that route, either now or in the future. I have an analytical mind that questions/doubts and demanded answers, even after knowing the ultimate truth. It happens. Vedanta says, the teacher is to answer the students questions until all doubts are removed. Period. End of story.

Also, in case it wasn't clear, I was referring to using concepts in understanding "apparent" phenomena in my past post. The cosmology of the manifest universe. When you've done your time in negating the world long enough you start to eventually question the other side of the coin, manifestation.. that's what I'm referring to. That's what I mean by coming full circle. The realization that Mithya is also awareness, therefore also "The Self". Ultimately though all theories are discarded when the mind becomes calm and still, when questions/doubts are gone, then you just rest in your true nature and play your role in life. The only other time to bring it up is in discussion. Like on this forum for example.

Perhaps, your just not to the point I'm referring to yet..no problem. Understanding seems to come in phases and you can't jump to a phase your not yet at.

@Joseph Maynor ya know what just came to me ... once you've negated everything and apprehend your true nature. Eventually, you come full circle and realize everything you've negated is also you (awareness). That's when "concepts" really come in handy. So, that this "apparent" existence can somewhat be explained..to the mind. As its the mind that seeks answers. Sorry, if I'm beating a dead horse..lol.

@Natasha yeah, after I asked I figured you couldn't summarize in a post..lol. I guess I'm really not searching/looking for anything anymore, Vedanta answered my questions, so I don't have the motivation to listen. But, Im somewhat curious as to what he's saying since people mention it often. So, I'll try to catch the infinity one, when I have a chance. Thanks.

@Joseph Maynor yeah, I have apprehended my true nature years ago. That can't really be talked about, I've never even tried, to be honest, because it's thought-less. All we can do is point.

So, how does one talk about reality without another saying it's concept, when concept, by definition, is a thought or notion in the mind? See the problem?

@Joseph Maynor I'm kinda sorry I asked ..lol. Over my head! Do you talk like this because of your background in philosophy? Or am I just not up on the "don't talk concept" spiritual game? I must admit I don't get it, so please excuse my concepts in the future.

Hey, not to nit pick, but for whatever reason I start thinking how you say the phrase above very often. So, I looked up the definition- Concept- something conceived in the mind : thought, notion Aren't all words, combinations of words a "concept"? A thought/notion conceived within the mind that is then communicated? What are you referring to when you say concept? You have said it to me more then once, that's why I'm inquiring into this more.