Ananta

Yes, it's true that everyone (including you) have preferences and desires, to some extent, otherwise why get out of bed? Go to work? Pay bills? However, desires (vasanas) can be neutralized. This doesn't mean you won't have any desires, but it means you have the option to do them, not to do them or do something all together different. Neutralizing vasanas (desires) goes hand and hand with "assimilation" of Self-knowledge. So, I'm not just pulling this out of my ass..lol. You can look it up..or not...or say I'm moving in thought.

I have to agree! I just don't agree with your method. Like what does this sentence mean- "This whole reward system motive is the realm psychological time does not cease. " Why must you talk like that?

@Faceless Ok, I get what you're saying. No offense, but it's very beginner level to me. If you spoke in a more straight forward manner, regularly, on your posts people could understand you better. Anyways, I'm awareness! Thoughts are me, but I'm not my thoughts. This is discriminated in the intellect. There's me (awareness) and there's thoughts with me. They come and go. It makes no difference to me. It's a matter of do I identify with them..or not. If I do, well that can be a problem. If I dont, no problem at all. Thought is not the enemy. Psychological thought comes from identification as a person and not your true nature. So, telling peeps to stop psychological thought without them knowing their true nature isn't going to work, imo.

Seems to me that @Faceless is referring to what Eckhart Tolle would call the "power of Now" (but he uses Krishnamurti terms and style). The problem, imo, with this is that once you're in the "now", then now what? You can't stay there indefinately and when you start using thoughts and memory again to function in the world you'll think you "lost" your "presence". Yeah, it just doesn't work to seal the deal, imo. You need Self-knowledge to remove ignorance of your true nature, as the Self/awareness.

Some more good stuff from Ted- "Self-realization happens the moment you apprehend your true nature as limitless conscious existence. Self-actualization (assimilation ) is the unshakable conviction that your true nature is limitless conscious existence. This conviction occurs as the result of nididhyasana, which is a process of continuous meditation on the teachings of Vedanta and the apprehension of your true nature to which they inevitably lead. After the initial realization/apprehension of the true nature of the self, you must engage in nididhyasana until such time as you are as thoroughly and unshakably convinced that you are limitless conscious existence as you one were that you were the body-mind-sense complex with which you are associated"

@pluto Yes, awareness under the spell of ignorance, that has "seemingly" forgotten it's own true nature, playing hide and seek with itself. It's the only game in town..lol.

@Joseph Maynor When did I say I'm enlightened? Seems you've missed the whole point of the post! Sounds like you have many judgements. None of which are my problem. Up until today, I had another poster following me around the forum proclaiming "he" was enlightened, but that wasn't me! I'm glad to be on my own.

Agreed!

Cool, I'll be more then happy to clarify if not.

First off, are you calling awareness/consciousness reality? Second, I called it a non-experience. Third, I don't believe there is an elightened self (ego), that's the point of my post. Perhaps you don't understand what I wrote?

I have no background in Zen, but Vedanta books for Westerners- "Self-knowledge- The King of Secrets" by Ted Schmidt And "How to obtain enlightenment" by James Swartz James and Ted also have a free "full series" of Vedanta teaching on Youtube. I'm not pushing this on anyone, so please don't think that. It's just my background and if your so inclined to look into then, so be it. Peace♡

I forgot to reference my source, I've now added him (Ted Schmidt-Vedanta teacher) Essentially, yes. So, If Self-realization occurs without assimilation, then the ego will re-appear after the experience (or actually non-experience) and claim "it" had an experience of the absolute. When the non-experience really showed "it" (ego) is an illusion. If it doesn't realize there is more work (assimilation of Self knowledge), then it (ego) may think it's enlightened...may even hang a sign and start teaching! Lol. Once Self-knowledge is fully assimilated then it's fully understood that moksha/liberation/enlightenment is FROM the apparent person. Although, awareness will continue to be "associated" with the apparent person.

If you know your retarded, how retarded could you really be?

YES!

In my writing Self (capital "S")=awareness/consciousness Just to clarify.

Very nice! The Self-actualized jiva/person will still have thoughts/feelings relating to objects, but they understand that as awareness (their true nature), those thoughts/feelings do not ultimately affect them and they are free of them (therefore, they don't cling or stick to the Self).

Try Self-inquiry meditation instead. https://www.sriramanamaharshi.org/teachings/instructions/ Like, Ramana Maharshi's, "Who am I". I linked the page for you. You can also look up other Self-inquiry techniques. I found that worked better then regular meditation for me.

Prior to Self-realization we think of ourselves as just a person and not "ever present awareness", we are ignorant of our true nature. We have an ignorance problem, because we are always already awareness, but we don't know it. To remove this ignorance, we need knowledge, specifically "Self-knowledge" wielded by a teacher. Yes, of course there are practices, but without the theory laying it all out, one would remain ignorant. Sure, there may be an exception here and there (ie, Jesus, buddha), that didn't require any theory, except their own Self-inquiry. So, you are already awareness, but you don't know this, aren't convinced or don't know what that means, therefore you need a combination of theory AND practice to gain liberation from experience and an understanding of your true nature, as awareness.

“Once maya is operating, awareness ‘assumes’ the role of Creator and "apparently" identifies with maya. Awareness in association with maya (ignorance) is then referred to as Isvara, or ‘God,’ the creator, preserver and destroyer of the objects in the dharmafield. As such it is also known as the macrocosmic mind, the causal body, or the deep-sleep state. Isvara, or maya, is a ‘limiting adjunct’ for awareness in that it causes awareness to appear as the limited world. Again, this implies a sequence of ‘events,’ which is not correct, because it infers time; we describe it so because we need to understand the distinction between the real and the apparently real, satya and mithya.” ~J. Swartz (Vedanta)

@Etagnwo, I'm over @Faceless , hes a total fraud. Every thing he says is word salad bullshit. Hopefully his followers @Nahm and @Marcus Sweden will just read Krishnamurti from his website, so they get accurate information. I'm outta here now. Literally.

...actually, thats exactly what faceless is doing about his "teaching"...oops, I meant Krishnamurti's. Hahaha

@Saumaya when did I defend it? Stating that someone doesn't know or understand the teachings is not defending. Not in my book at least.

I referenced Vedanta because faceless said- "Not escape what is “duality” to an idea of nonduality. Which is generally what nonduality teachings promote." He doesn't know what's promoted or not promoted.

What do you know about Advaita Vedanta? Probably nothing. So, you don't know what it is or what is taught. If you're talking about the neo-Advaita movement, that's got nothing to do with Vedanta.

@Faceless I think you're doing a shit ton of "MOVEMENT OF THOUGHT"....watch out, that'll get ya!