Neo

But Leo - I'm a big fan of you, but this drugs thing, you must understand how this translates through different countries and societies round the world, how dangerous it is, just how simply impossible it is for some people, as well as all the stigma and stuff you would call ego. You must try to understand this has put people off your site and the whole she-bang.

The trouble is with trying to use a forum to research and learn about this, is that so many people use a different viewpoint, perspective or different language to describe it. On the point you make above, I have been following the train of thought that every thing you've added to your belief system through life is a restriction, or set of restrictions on what you can see, your awareness. At the root of all these beliefs is one big one, which is belief in yourself, your self image. I don't really like to speculate what I can see behind this self image, because rather than help, it's adding one more belief onto the massive pile of beliefs on top of, the self image.

No I think I understand. The idea of enlightenment is itself a concept. It's just something the ego can hold onto, cling to which is another paradox.

I'm with you on this. I keep bouncing back and forth. There seems there's a gap between Leo who says he doesn't know anyone whose ever regretted it, and it's beyond your wildest dreams, to those others with a more serious tone, who state you will loose your life in no uncertain terms and the guy who runs haunted earth scaring the shite out of you. Deep down, something is telling me everything is ok with it, and then some random thought creeps in...

I take it you're not recommending that?

Well that's really ironic because I believed strongly in free will before I started this, and not after.

@Wendelin Of course, everything is fine if that's what you want, but from my non-enlightened position it is as if, I am trying to tweak something in the computers BIOS, and you are filling up the hard drive with dogma.

Whoa @Wendelin you are finding whole new concepts of reality to "learn". I thought basically all we are trying to do here is one thing. Reach into your mind of when you were a baby or toddler to the point where you took on the belief, "this is me", pull it out and rip it up and discard it. This will make you feel like you are dying. This guy on the other hand, multiple timelines, consensual reality, incremental split seconds of alternate universes WTF? sorry.

I'm not enlightened but seeing as no-one can tell us the trigger I may as well have a go. We are told that surrender is an important aspect. We are told that it "comes from a place of not knowing" which means no thought or knowledge what-so-ever can be the trigger. We are also told that you realise it's already here. Jesus said "The Kingdom of God is in your midst", and so also comes in the idea of belief or faith. Nothing egoic itself can flick a switch when there's nothing to flick, no switch, it's here already so the idea of a trigger itself goes out the window. You are at the mercy of it and you are it.

The ego think's it has control over creating our own internal universe, but I'm beginning to think it doesn't really control anything. Ever knocked a precious glass vase off a shelf and caught it with the other hand without thinking about it? We told the body has built in reactions to be able to do this, but in actual fact the body works this way all the time and we try to take the ownership of it.

But all of us know that there is a physical person sat here right? The fact that there is no ego existing, is something we can interpret in our own way and to me it means this; that you believe you are the "director" of your own show, an observer with special powers to control fate and destiny. The director of the show disappears and we see the show goes on and so we realise it wasn't what we thought it was. In order to get someone to see this dramatic and yet hidden truth, we need to be so open minded beyond belief. We need to be willing to actually see the self disappear. Because frankly there is no other "language" we would understand that would give a hint as to how to do it.

How do you know that? Is he not just pixels on the screen produced by a data stream?

Personal medical issues aside, many men go through a "slow down" as they get older, and it can feel like "over coming" it. You can start to see your younger work colleagues being wholly controlled by sex (and by the girls they're chasing lol). You start to see the whole sex thing as a bit of a game. And as for Leo's sex video, I was like *god is not even he over it yet?*.

It just is. Technically survival is almost right, but it wasn't given the "goal" of survival. Just everything else didn't survive and left things that had the *tendency* to survive for now. (We may annihilate ourselves later). Some early "self concept" was probably extremely useful in survival in other species we evolved from.

I think it's been described by people including Leo as Truth, and for some people, Truth means everything even though Truth can't be conveyed as "facts" or "knowledge" in the normal sense.

I like the word "realise" because it's not really a *doing word*. You can realise something without much effort, in fact... so little effort that you can almost start smiling before you think it... unfortunately I get scared after this... but I'm still a noob.

or other version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tb-iD2gz_po Genesis CH.1 V.32 by Alan Parsons Project no lyrics

Let me examine this as a thought exercise. What seems to happen, as I understand it, everything is born of the ego, apart from IT. At this point, the ego no longer takes centre stage, because IT is too vast to be contained by the ego and doesn't need the ego. So while it might be an idea that the ego is wrong or lacking, this is really important to you, but nothing is of consequence to infinity because it contains everything anyway. I've gone a bit wrong. Someone help me out here!!!

Why did this guy, me, take up salad lunches and give up anti depressants for no apparent reason and I can't remember why. Did Leo hypnotise me? Who knows. Am I glad I did it though, yes. Some other shit as well.

@Wendelin Hey Wendelin, I'm not on the forum much as there was too much talk about drugs so I left, but yours was the first read I saw and I recognise a lot of what you said. You know when something has awaken (there's even a special word for it but I can't recall) something awakes, and you start to change and notice things, even though you haven't had enlightenment, and you see the whole world differently. They say knowledge doesn't mean anything, nor does searching, but awakening, well that is real.

@electroBeam This is my response. (Me - Arnie . You Dr Edgemar)

@Esoteric I don't really care what you think. I'll call it a day on this forum and leave Leo's u-tube channel. The drug fans who were waiting in the wings on this forum are coming to the fore and the whole feel of the place is tainted. This isn't what I am looking for at all.

No, I don't think so. I mean how many people do I need to ask other than people I trust and respect, do you want me to dig up some street sellers and crack whores to ask? Intent is everything in the process of enlightenment. Yeah ok, I'll just start snorting illegal powerful drugs up my nose and rolling round on the floor vomiting, never mind. That will surely tell me if I'm reaching enlightenment or not by trial and error. That's basically what you are saying.

Because some of us still understand and live in the world of words silly.

So after watching Leo's first videos on drugs, I sought advice from a group of friends who do meditation and some of which also do the drugs and the answer came back a definite "no" these experiences as interesting and seeming real as they may appear are not authentic, and they don't help the spiritual journey. One wonders whether they really are the ego's last ditch attempt at fooling the one taking these chemicals, what Leo warned us about all along.