Neo

I think you'll find that @Debbie B compared climbing a mountain with snorting drugs, but you quote her comparing meditation with a trip to Barcelona.

Yes it could be the Sherry.

@Rashad There's someone on the forum, can't remember who, they said there a three basic types of sound you hear. Hopefully they will come along and explain it.

How do you know it's definitely connected to the meditation?

When I read that I assumed Leo meant universes. Universes can be different sizes like expanding bubbles, and some of them could have absolutely no viable life in them, others with bizarre alien operating principles, other that snuff themselves out in seconds, and every comprehensible variation. Technically infinity can contain all these infinite universes, so I'm not sure where the infinite infinities come in.

@Debbie B Someone will come along and tell you that you have all these limiting beliefs about drugs and it's you that has the problem in a minute. A message board that spends half the time talking about how to loose your rationality can't regain it for one minute when a serious question from this young person comes along. Also gets forgotten, people that had some experience on drugs and then spend the rest of their life trying to "get back there", and when someone comes along starting out on meditation etc, and they are like, "yeah man, just snort that stuff or do this stuff, yeah man!", "look how I turned out!"

This is the whole thing though isn't it. The brain is basically a device to limit ourselves through beliefs and create the sense of duality. When the shroud is lifted. Boom. You did already "know" everything.

You know the scene from the 90's film "Ghost" where he tries to move and pick up objects but can't because he's a ghost? I feel like that trying to find the "I".

The universal rules don't break down though do they, and I assume every universe has them. So a human being like us couldn't tear off their limbs everyday because we can't regrow them. It would be another creature that took it for granted that they had to tear their limbs off everyday because their evolution had led them to that point. Nothing out of place. We do in fact have lizards on planet earth that can shed their tails and regrow them and I bet they think nothing of it. The universe with Bugs Bunny in a room would have to have an evolution, so all the stages up to Bugs Bunny in a room, so you could speculate as to why it got stuck there and if the universe had a law of entropy, I'm sure Bugs Bunny would not last that long.

There's a great user name right there. Dark Knight of the Soul.

OK, I'll hold off sending you the Samaritans phone number (in the UK) This is my unenlightened reply: (I don't claim to be enlightened in any way) There is something called the anthropic principle. While the principle is complex and exists in many forms It argues something along the lines of "why are the conditions for life just perfect on earth, isn't it too much of a coincidence?", and the answer is, "you wouldn't be able to ask the question if you existed in an inhospitable galaxy or universe." I've really over simplified that but you get the idea. And so in similar fashion, you are a developed creature evolved from many competing creatures who suffer high infant mortality rates, high rates of disease and population fluctuations, natural disasters and complete extinction events, and you reach a point where you have the intelligence to ask, basically, "is life full of suffering?" The answer is "yes" but had you not had to compete through evolution through the whole process and develop according to the ecosystem of earth along with other organisms in the environment and time frame as allowed, you would not have been able to ask the question. Or to put it the other way, if you developed as a squishy happy marsh mellow flavoured happy bunny thingy always high and ever friendly, you would have just been eaten by something and wouldn't be sat on your couch asking this question.

@sadlabounty Are you asking these things because it's of interest to you, maybe in a philosophical way, or are you troubled by suffering right now?

If we live in an infinite universe, it's not really possible that all life is suffering. There will be every permutation of possible lives out there. It's just our particular version of seemingly intelligent species has developed an ego whose job it is to make life hard for us.

I have to admit I have actually told life itself to "fuck off" over the last few days. I also had this feeling that as the grief was lining up one after the other that I was in some cosmic "Trueman show"... still smiling though at the end of the day...

like the pre-rational judging the post-rational?

I know it's a bit off topic, but the mentions of happiness and suffering got me wondering. Does anyone have any views on life when it keeps slapping you down, one problem after another. Although on this path you do start to become indifferent to it, I wonder if that's more through expecting trouble and sheer exhaustion. Is there somehow you could be "attracting" trouble, whether it be health issues, disasters, accidents?

@Progress Nice post. I bet the hardest thing is to tell a vibration from a forum post! People can't even tell if someone's joking, being subtle, ironic, devils advocate, or downright provocative. I find a winky helps at the end of the sentence.

Are there any scientific theories or studies done on the "Experience Of Enlightenment" in general? I mean, even though that would go against the grain here, has no-one attempted it?

@bobbyward No, someone here needs to do some joined up thinking when it comes to safety issues of potentially vulnerable people. This is completely separate to my other threads around whether drugs are necessary for enlightenment. I'm harping on here about safety. my own issues are irrelevant here. It's ok for everyone here to float around and say "Yeah man we don't exist so you can snort what you like", and there are times when someone needs to step in and say GET REAL, the guy is 17 and his liver has not even had to deal with a glass of Wine.

Comes back after two months to say "just do it" where someone genuinely asks for advice. I wonder if he was on drugs when he posted his thoughtful reply.

At least Afonso had the intelligence and maturity to post in here for advice. There could be young people we don't even know about, sat right now and forever more in some institution in a distant land rocking back and forth in their chair staring into space with occasional visits from people they don't recognise who call themselves mom and dad.

Guys, telling someone who is not even of drinking age in most countries around the world that this is a good idea is just crazy if not sick. See this is what I'm talking about elsewhere on this forum. Afonso, bro, you need to learn to walk before you can run and sometimes that involves a little bit of good old living experience and all that goes with it. Life is the great teacher, it's better than any white powder at teaching you all you need to know, and no chemicals whatsoever are needed to become enlightened, it's just something a few people are into.

Shin, when people start acting so defensively about their drug taking, it only reinforces my views that the person talking to me on the forum is reliant on them, and even makes me question whether they are just into drug induced states rather than achieving anything real. I've had a few minor experiences and I come away knowing there's a place I can go in my mind where something magical happens. The thought of having to pop a pill to do that, I find quite frankly "fake". The fact when I bring these things up, people turn it around and say there's something wrong with my readiness or openness, I just find bigoted and pervertedly defensive of their own lifestyle.

Saying one thing prove something completely unrelated is all I've heard on threads like this from those involved in drugs. You can't seem to hear this, "drugs" aren't necessary for enlightenment. End of story.

I ACCEPT there is a lot I don't realise, I ACCEPT that I may even change my mind about this. But for reasons I've mentioned several times in other threads I cannot go down that route and as long as people tell me the truth is not wholly dependent on it, I won't be doing it. And I will stick my neck out and say that I believe you've made a mistake in promoting it, sorry.