Dino D

not bad, but one step is not clear: how is awareness attaching to a belief, holding on, why it attaches to some beliefs, some not? Imagine this, awareness (no propetis, nothingness) gets aware of two beliefs (i'm human I'm a chair) and it attaches to I'm human... why, how, who choose, how does it hold on, what happends by letting go, who is doing this...

nice

wrong post, edited, sorry

forget non duality, biology= you only percive or experience the filtered version of reality witch we can call perception... when you see a stool, light comes trought you eyes, it gots proccesed in your brain and reproducet to your counciousness as a vision/photo of a stool, who know how a stool really looks, or how it looks trought eyes of other beings, what vaves of light exist that you dont see/percive and so on... so you never ever experience anything other then your perception... now lets include non duality- In fact when i said perception i ment direct experience, words and terminology are here to show the way, on their own in the relative linguistic meaning, they can mean different things, what i wanted to say is that you only experience direct experience (your own perception), direct experience is a better therm because is a step closer to truth, perception is colored, its subjective its like that like this, you can atribute many properties to what you percive-big smal, red blue, intense weak, loud, and so on... when you inqury hard in whatever youre perciving, when you trully look what it is, what your direct experinece is and what is it made from, who is experiencing and so on... you get from direct perception, to direct experience of what really is-the truth... also because my english isnt good, its double hard for me to express myself clearly...

No, people have ony experienced perception, vision sound, smell, thoughts, then they created a thought that the earth is flat or round... if you search for any of those particular things (vison sound thoughts) you will se that is made of nothing, that it is located in you, that it is you ... What is really real, go touch something and be criticall, how does it feel, what is the feeling, what precisely, whats the ,,substace of it" , WHO IS IT THAT IS AWARE OF IT, what is he? where is he, what are his propertiess, and the inqury starts

@BjarkeT 1. if you say that the legs exist independet if you see it, so does the universe exist independet of your mind, you contradict your self... you die-your mind, i still exist, so simply 2. If I'm body mind so there was time where I didnt exist, of course before i was born... If I'm God, pure infinite or finite awareness, there wast time before I existed... There is no existence without time, so the questions answers his self. Existance is only possible in time, so as time happend, existance started -how did this happend-big bang-there was nothing, no time, and it started, why, how exactly, who knows, its still all nothing, and nothing ever happend 3. Why does he so, its probbably evan a wrong question 4. forget the infinite part, not important and maybe also not true, maybe 100% true

yes no because he can / no need for a reason / if its infinite it includes also this

I overthink, and overxplain. What to do to work on that? (any concrete books, videos, advices, methods on this? As example, my comments on this forum are often to long, my writings in my Job also could be shorter...

100% agree, so it is about any advanced topic, or evan any topic, you need the knowledge/understanding to be able to debate... But evan from a lover level we should not accept dogmaticaly someone that is above... If Einstein and Tesla would talk to me, I still should not belive them everything, and very often second greaders can spot out something that makes no sense, so wait professor... however I shouted out all of my bortgering mind problems on this and other post, I needet it, it helped me to let go of them and find a bit of peace and go do ,,the work" thx for the free effort (I dont admit or give up on some my points/critic thought, but I'm done for now and I expained my self why I did it, and finally i hope you still can see my big grattitude for your work evan if I criticized a lot theese days ) T H A N K Y O U

@UDT do you see what kind of explonation Leo gave, he didnt, he said you didnt understand it and you need to meditate more. That is not really an answer. And thats much more lickly to be the truth, Leo is probbaby right, but he didnt answer or explained your (and mine) critic and questions... Thats how all of mine hard questions get ,,answered" i wrote about this in other topics also, and i will prapare a post on this, with those questions. I will also increase the work (meditation and other) and I hope i will ,,get there." All this non duality questions can only be answered trought experience, not with words, so we cant talk about it, we have to meditate, and experience it deeply peace

@Dragallur yes, i answered some stuff here in this topic - An argument AGAINST the inifnity of awareness - I meditate, i did some breathing, mdma, i didnt went deep, so I'm not really authenitc, i had one no self experience from leos guided meditation, there is aslo a topic on that that i posted... the next period I'm quiting this mental mastrubation and I will practice more, i stopped because i got to much insomnia, chackras, kundalini or whaever, i couldn sleep right for one year after stoping meditation, because of spiritual practice, crazy stuff now i meditate only sometimes, i think I'm much more ready now for my shadow work

Great, i get it, very interesting, but now thats a higer level of mathematic for me to understand it really or to have any debate... especially when applying such stuff to what we call ,,reality" or do I now have infinite number of fingers and lifes where I have infinite number of versions of me Dino (being raped, being a superstar, being smaller, biger, sick, timeless and so on) thats the infinity problem vs one finate outcome... and I cant speek at this at all, this is for high end scientist and mathematicin, but i can ask, and i can filter the given answer with my knowledge, logic and IQ, and I know when I dont understand stuff because its to much for me and my profession and knowlege, as example some high end math, also I know and see superficial analogy and shallow bullshit, claims that cant evan withstand my low level proces of prove and questioning... It would be great to see a debate from Leo, Rupert or anyone with some high end scientist and observe how non duality gets eaten up easily, how non dual analogys get discredited with evidence, or evan better to see how non duality gets support-I WOULD LOVE AND HOPE FOR THAT. but no, it aint happening

there is no such stuff or state, presence or absence, all is now, we are all one, absolute infinity, who is present?, who is abscent?, so there is something to be present and absent... Ok awareness is always there, but then something comes and goes, and it happends in time, so there is awareness and there is something=dulity... The whole theory does not fit together... and it does not withstand the ,,proces of prove" or logic

btw. there are yogis that claim beinf aware when they sleep, but befor being born, or dead, or on things on other planets they are still not aware... Awareness beiing aware of nothing is nothing. but how can nothingness be me then?- hmm what would a smart non dualist say, who is asking that? haha, Ok, lets be serious: Awareness being aware of the hand as example when looking sharp lets you see that there is really no hand, and no senzations, evan go to the bottom of the hand and you will see that this nothing, it is made of pure awareness, and awareness is made of nothing, youre not the hand (because the hand does not exist or it acutally exist us nothing or as awarness). Everything is made of nothing, awareness is made of nothing, so awareness by being aware is only aware of nothing or of it self, so everything is pure awareness, nothing or the one and the same self... How can you know, just by experience, you can littelary experience all of this, realize it as clear as it gets, fuck the talk, it looks like the bigest strongest and most obvious truth... now turn on your brain, think, and be open that this also can be just a state of the brain that feels so, and then you delude yourself and give it UNIVERSAL SPIRITUAL MEANIG and properties... what happends in deep sleep, what happend before you were born, why do you dont see my toughts, why when we damage the brain awarenes changes and those hard questions point to such stuff, non dualist have no clear answers again be open minded, if they cant expailn it does not mean it not possible that they are still right, but its not likely and we should not take it for granted...

with that example i wanthed to explain that infinity does not actually exist. it exist only in a theoretical way, a relative way, and maybe in this universe we have infinite potential (so maybe someware evan dragon ball is happening but probbaby not) however in reality we have only finity... the distance between me and you is finate, its 2 miles, thats it, we cant split it, only with ideas abouth lenght, the distance is as long as it is, and it has finate distance the distance betwen you and me can be infinite only on theory. Lets try to messure the distance with starting with 1 mile + 1/2 of a mile + 1/4 of a mile +... 1/99999999 1/infinite, and we will never get to two miles, so we have infinite distance between us. but its not like that, also if the world is material, there is probbably the smallest partical someware and that would be the shortest distance, and in reality you cant evan aplly 1/infinite... so i dont mean if you split something it does not become biger (but thats also true) i just wanted to show in what relative way infinity exists, and it what finate way the world has taken shape (finate distance in reality vs infinite distance in theory)... As experiencing infinity, imagine you experience at one moment (let take as example 1/100 of a second for a moment (a relative definition of course) 50 things-this would maybe feel like infinity, like 50 times more then you ever experienced in your life (drugs can do this) now imagine you experience 5000000000000 things in a moment (and add the belive or feeling that youre all of those things) or you experince 1/5000000000000 of a thing, this can only feel like infinity, but it isnt...

Maybe awareness is just a property of the body/mind and we delude our selfs that we are it, and we perscribe all the abilities of awareness to the whole world (and it has no abillities/properties) as the whole world is awareness. We just assume so... we have to train 10-20 years to delude our selfs hard enought, or to train our brain to be in that standby perciving mode... however, no one can give you logic on this, give up, let go, who percieves this questioning, how do you know that logic, what is logic, are you beliving in it or being it, what do you actually experience, and so on bla bla bla... They give us the easy answers that we can understand anyways, but when we ask tricky questions and give arguments, than you get the answer, let go, who is asking this, youre nothing, infinite, bla bla I hope they are right but just dont have the knowladge to explain but i really get the notion that people just cant explain the ,,hard questins" , then it gets non dual dogma(or pure theory) or pointing to inquiry excersizes or inquiry steps...

NO, when awareness is aware of itself thats the experience of enlightement (no self state, absolut infinity state, being all one, being pure knowing-name it whatever you want), you do experience it in a way, its a nonexperience, hard to say but youre councious of it. In deep sleep there is nothing, and no enlightement experience, no observer...

I dont belive you will get a valid answer here. Thats you being sceptic and critic, and enlightenment theory and ,,enlightenment people" cant give you an answer. you will only get: you need to let go of that question, who is asking that question? who is noticing that what youre saying?

I want that people understand me. Many times when I dont explain things with big fundamentation and many examples I dont get understood. People also often use every hypotetical possibility to replay and to ,,beat" my argument, so I am trying to write in a way that does not have holes and that does not leave easy space to start saying the oposite (witch i think it is not true) so when i write i try to include the possible replay of the person with whoom I'am speaking, and to give an answerto his replay before he ,,can replay"... Saying only the fundamental stuff has to be without the suporting arguments and evidence for being a ,,short and clear" writing, thats hard, somehow you have to write down the fundamental theisis is such a celar way that the thesis on his own is ,,self enought" and that it by it self includes argument and evidence that can be easily understood but the listener... I will now really focus on being short and clear, with method/book or not thats my new side goal in this self development work

When the time comes, i will

Ok here is also the first part. If infinity is, there must be the experience of you not experiencing... Maybe infinity is not, who knows. The concept of infinity is the only infinity, everything is finate, and maybe with infinite potential that has a finate otucome. The distance betwen you and me can be split infinitly. lest say we are two miles away so 2 of something=a final distance, but we can say we are infinitly away, its not 2, its 1/2, then 1/2000000, and go bit more close for 1/999999999999999999999999 miles, and onother 1/99999999999999999999999999999999999999, and so it appears that we are infinitly away, and we can not reach each other and so on... but are we, ot is it just the finate 2 miles... Infinite possibileties are possible, infinite pottentional, my life could went infinite ways, so there is a combination of evants that could led to me being raped, but NO, ONLY ONE COMBINATION HAPPEND and that is this one, infinite potentional gives final otcomes and we know and can prove only this one, everything other os belif, theory, dogma... of not, prove it with science, facts, or just first person experience, with dreams, with anything, you cant, but you still say its infinite. (maybe it is, I'm open midned but you have to give me something ,,real) Leo uses open mind in a way that I dont accept. Lets say i come to you and tell you I have 25 hands... And the whole world spends 60 years to find them with all the methods possible (including spiritual drugs, hocus pocus) what not, and you dont, and I say youre not openminded enought, youre wrong... We just cant talk like that... I hope you get me

Ok, on this point the debate speeds up and people cant go further or just leave. Lets show it on your example step by step. I will answer/ask only on the second part, just that we dont expand to much. I the thinking entity am bullshit and dont exist, I'm not the body mind. Ok, lets agree 100% on this, lets say thats a fact (its not and I have many doubts and arguments why not, but non duality has also, they are very logical I agree on them, it makes sense, and lets just continue) So I'm not the body mind, I could be everything, or nothing, or some spiritual awareness, or a soul, whatever. Lets say im apsolute/God (thats the opinion and experience of Leo and non duality, lets just say I'm that) and then comes the unlogical part that makes no sense, or it makes sense but its not factual, and its just dogma for me, I the absoulte am being all those other things? But Iam asking and telling you that I dont experience ONE OTHER THING, from all those other things, I just experience the body mind. Non duality tells me that I'm the Elephant, the bug, the planet, that i am being raped right now and that Iam you, without any prove at all. Not sceintific, not experiential, not any awareness of it, not anything. And now you need to answer concrete and logicaly, prove me and explain me that right now I am actually being raped and being an elephant? Also with an enlightement experience (when I dont belive anymore that here in my body lives something, and that there is me) i see you (the vison of your body) and i belive I'm also you and we are all one. Thats the result of my thinking from the perception whitout beliving in the existence of me-the ego personality (Dino), at the moment of enlightement I didnt experience your thoughts, or the feling of a lion in africa or the stone, or the microbe and atom... Right now, if I belive that I'm the room, and I would percive that the vision of the room is also me, thats still only subjective perspective that is only valid for the experiencig being... and so on... If you say I'm the elephant, and I dont experience, feel it, no scientific prove, no facts, no memories, no nothing... HOW can I KNOW and see this? I can just belive= Dogma, no logic, living critcism, scepticism, rationality, first person experience, evidence, everything, and lets just accept the ,,non dual" view point and theorethical truth...

1. Why am I not aware of your life (thoughts, perception) etc.? 2. 70 people in one room, there are 70 rooms being experienced, not one room? (this is a explenation that sholud debunk the existance of a material world) 3. What happens in deep sleep? where is the awareness? where was it before I was born? 4. Why do we change experience when we affect the brain (drugs, brain damage) and why do people claim that there is counciousnes outside of the brain, if everything points that it is into the brain? There is no experiece without a brain-living human... 5. Why does the enlightement experience, or the non dual realization go away? 6. Why do we give any credit to first person experience? Schizophrenia can give us the experience that we are a bird, I can be deluded, is that valid? 6.1 The enlightement experience is real, it does really happen for some people? How we do really know what this is, maybe its just a ,,brain state"? How do we know that it is true and valid? Its the only experience or better to say realization that goes away and that can not be reproducet, you get something/and see it, and then its gone. When you trought an optical illusion for the first time, as example, you can see it always... 7. why is there this experience at all? why are there anything to percive? 8. I see that I am the observer, I understand that i am evan the observed, but I dont know, see, or remember that i created this illusion, how and withc with intiligence do I sustain this whole illusory universe? 9. I dont get that right now I'm being an elephant, a bird, a planet, that me (Dino the human) am right now being raped, have sex, fly, am a vampire, do the kamehameha and infinity? sorry thats just theoretical, not actual . There is much more, I asked the same question for the period of two years, on different places, but I didnt keep track, when I hear something that makes no seanse i ask, I dont get an answer that I can relate to, few months later, a different answer, and still makes no sense... I hade aslo some arguments/questions on free will but I cant remember... You dont need to answer, Rupert spira, mojiji and other gave there explonation-not rational analogys for most of the time, Leo did also, and very often people just ignored when it gets tricky, when my arguments are hard to discredit (when we go deep into the debating), people just dont answer... there are much more questions that i asked, many on this forum, and I got genuis answers and explonations that make sense and that helped me a lot, and Iam very thankfull for all of this. Many times people answer also with the trick answer, as example mojiji has: come on, why you worry about deep sleep, just take a rest and sleep, and you smile and say ok ok, but what was that for on answer, come on... And why am I not aware of your experience, and sometimes people answer you are but you dont know... againg, lets be sceptical, just a little bit

I'm thinking for days about this part, so whats with the heaven and reading peoples minds? overwhelming states?