Dino D

I dont know, Youre probabbly right... I think kids are happy, I was happy as a kid also, I wasnt enlightened, I did what i wanted and loved all the day, I was happy, very happy... My dreams were in line with my reality, everything was interesting and fun and reacheble, now there are also many things that I would like to do or -to be- but obviously, like for most of the people its very hard to make it, and it comes with a high personal/pshological price, and all of that is of course an illusion and a ego goal... however, kids are happy and not enlightened...

Saying that someone is great, or that you like someone (a teaching of someone) is not cult... I admire you also, but I'm not a Leo cult member. I criticize many of Ruperts videos and teachings like I do yours, I dont give a fuck about him as a person, I dont follow him blindly or buy anything from him. And his followers are generally not like that-(like cult members), but I'm shure that there are some. With Osho, Oshos lifestlye, the lyfestyle of his followers we can see much more cult like behavior, or just pure cult...

And thats what Im here. Before any spirituality, the most logical and fundamental sense of life at all was to fell good and happy. I had a hedonistic ideology that was limited with ,,basic and fundamental,, morality and ,,being good". Then came knowing, philosophy, psyhology, matrix, spirituality, non duality, but to be honest I only want to be happy. Leo, are you happy? If yes is it because of enlightement? Or because of your personal life? If not, why not? (Dont get specific and personal, just in a nutshel, why not)

He also charges 1000 to 3000 euro a 5 day retreat, he sells everything, stay sceptic to our idol, however i dont see it by observing him, he just seams so real, and his fruits are his life and his persinality, also he has no cult and his videos helped me many times... he litallary stopped sometimes my panic attacks... maybe he has money, but i think he stayed a very simply man... or he has become it, who knows how he was ,,before"

Maybe its this... being enlightened has nothing to do with being happy. Being happy is a ego thing, the ego changes witg enlightement, the personality changes, and you still have to do the personal development work, to find a job, a hobby, a partner, to solve trauma and so on... and combine this with enlightement and you will be happy, or not. Also deep fully enlightement maybe leads to such peace that is beyond happines, rupert spira says that the best relative answer that he hears wgy they is experience or existence at all is LOVE... there is your happines and my thery, men, its not evan my theory, i havr nothing

That right there is anallogy. Most good gymnastic girs are thin. (99%) if a girl has 200 kilogram, she is probbably a bad gymnastic. Most blind people cant be painters. Being blind and painting must not be colerated, but it its. Being enlightened and good, it has to go together like painting a house and seing vs. painting a house and being blind. enlightenedxgood=mathematicsxgood is not right... All known enlightened people are good, I aslo asked if you know the bad ones? however all of that is logic and analogy, not a fact or evidence. We have three questions here, is osho enlightened(fully)? is osho a good person? and do enlightened persons have to be good (at least as a general rule)? So we need concrete methods and evidence to prove that. I dont know those for shure (Who am I to know that)? Jesuses method was looking at someones fruits... Fruits of a diet, of a trainer, of a professor, of a lawyer or what not are a good prove of they credibility and teaching, thats evidence. OSHOS personal life, and his followers are not really evidences of the claims and teachings given by his book... I have also my method-you just know and see it... You see the person, you analyze it, you look in his eyes, you feel him, you see bulshit, the subtle ones, you see love and understandig, true knowing, credibility and authenticy... When i watch Rupert Spira, his body language, his eyes, his understanding, way of acting and everythink, THE GUY IS JUST REAL AND I SEE THAT EVERY WORD THAT HE SAIS THAH IT IS TRUE FOR HIM AND THAT HE REALLY FEELS SO AND BELIVES SO AND -IS SO-. Mojiji is also near but he hes some questionable aspects, but OSHO, many circus there, but not really his style, his eyes, his ,,aura" and if you get sceptic to him and his saying, there are some stupid claims, and then the rols roys, the money the using of followers... of course, my method is not valid and scientific at all, and we can not relay on it...

I belive real happines is the ,,non dual story" / infinity / and so on... But I like to talk practically., so: Is real happines in fact really simply? You just have to do what you want, like and love? Thats it... I mean thats it, the end. Youre depressed and anxious because you live in a lie, you cant do what you want, or you failed because you dindt fight hard enought (gave up) but you still want it... You want to do that job (but youre working another one), you want to be with that partner (but youre with another one), you want to achive some goals (like body shape, travel destinations, learn some skills) but you never had the will power... And here we go: The solution. Just do what you want to do from the deepest part of your hearth (or your ego-personality), no matter the consequences, an no matter how hard the road to the goal is, just fight for it, and you will be happy most of the time... You will be motivated, happy, not depressed and so on... If you reach all your goals you will have new goals, fight for them. No compromises. If you fight hard and smart there are chances more then 90% that you will also make it. We dont live how we want, and what we want (chasing our dreams) beacuse of fear, consequences, society rules, money, and we do what we dont like, we cant talk 100% honestly to other people and be authenitic, we hang out with people we dont like/love, (thats sometimes evan wife and kids-thats how it is, its not moral or nice but the hard reality for some people (btw. I'm not married and I dont have kids, its just a brutal example), and thats why we are unhappy. Also I dont mean stupid and superficial goals, like getting a new car (witch is often 90% just because of social status) or chasing mony at every price like blind chicken, I mean going deep, being trully honest and doing and living from your hearth. Also being ,,smart" and mindfull, doing some self inquiry and psyholigical education will probaby help that this,, doing what you want" does not go in a shallow, stupid totaly uncosiousnes (big time american cosumer, shallow person(money, fame, power, materialist), lifestyle) Or is this the wrong way? Maybe is much more self discipline, abiding way, gsomething like giving up of all of this previously said, like zen budhists, or christian saints and hermits, or what not... Sometimes excersizing the giving up or maybe almost every spiritual way, just seams like dont having the guts to do it (fighting for your dream) and to face all consequences of doing what you want or love, and to fight so hard to achive it... Last example: Many people want to be dan blizerian, but they dont have the guts to follow that lifestyle, and sometimes they ,,meditate, rationalize it, and get more councious" but what does work????? for being happy????

Thinking allows us to be sceptic and critical... If I speak with people who have awakend/experienced that state, I can only think of what they say and belive what they experienced... I dont belive that first person subjective experience is valid evidence. Evan if I experience it, how can I know (prove, understand and back up) what this actually was, how could I know for shure. A schizophreniac knows and experiences that he is a lest say a bird. A common human experiences his body and identity, his flash and thinks he is a materijal being A enligtened human thinks he does not exist, and he is one with threes. If we take it further he thinks he is right now being raped infinite times, and being a superstar at the same moment, a bug, a bacteria, a planet, and everything in every moment. hmmm So againg, first person experience is valid? not at all. Enlightenment is a true experience, people really do experience this state, but what it is, what it means, and what does this mean to reality, materialism is pure dogma and assumptions...

You gave and logical answer, but i dont agree, here is why. First we have to be precise, because it gets tricky and more complex (because you gave a great answer that is still false from my sceptic perspectiv) Lets assume that Jesus quoute is right (yes, its a starting assumption, but its logical, lets just do it that way)... So, its ok in orther to prove something right to ask for they fruits. you agreed in a way an said that oshos writing is his fruit. Oshos writing sounds very clear and impressive, and its probably a good writing with much truth in it, but at the end maybe we still can conclude that his writing is wrong and that he is a kind of a fraud that has no real fruits behind him. To conclude that his writing is a realible fruit, thats whats wrong. A good nutritionist, with strong arguments can write a diet (a fruit) whitch cant help one human being to loose fat (lets imagine the diet is in a nutshel a diet from 10000 calories of iceream a day)... so this nutritionist would be a false prohpet... I think you need stronger arguments to prove the credibility of Osho. You can be enlightened and kill a human being with a fork and then eat him for breakfast.- maybe yes, but maybe thats an assumption... It seams that enlightened people are in general good people (with good its almost saint like good), how many exceptions do you know? If we can conclude that as a general rule enlightened people are good people, and also not materialist, then someone who is bad, a meterialist, alcoholic and so on, is probably not enlightened, and thats why we could be sceptic to OSHO. Of course, many assumptions here... If not, if really being enlightened has nothing to to with being a good person, WE HAVE ALWAYS TO POINT IT TOGETHER WITH SAINTHOOD or BEING A GOOD PERSON. So enlightement its like a gun, we have to teach people the responsibility with enlightement because it could backfire and relativize the norms and forces that hold back some people of killing and being bad*

Yes, I didnt really experienced it ( I had one glimpse for 3 seconds two years ago, but its not really worth mentioning) and a lot of reading and youtube also forums... However of course I dont understand non duality for real, for now I'm just being critical, sceptic, and whats big for me: logical AND PRACTICAL, and there when I go deeper, i find many things/answers that dont make sense at all, that arent logical, practical, or cant be proven with facts/science at all, or that can evan be misproven for just bad and wrong anallogys. And when I point to those things very scepticly and clearly, I dont get an answer, or I get a cocky on, or a non dual/dogmatic one...

Hey, great answer Now its clear to me, this one sentence is what you said in a nutshel and what wised me up- then you do what your ego wants/loves and thats not really what your true self wants/love Btw. I have tinnitus, and it came parrarel with the start of my path... ( I did all medical reserch, but nothing).

1. nothing to be taught- they is no need to teach me to eat, to walk, there is no need to know that a gun can kill your kid, that i should not rape your wife or kid... That what you said is a not practical non dual phyloshophy and maybe evan dogma. The top non dual teacher dont teach such ,,al life negleting stuff" and nothing to do ,, phyloshophy" I mean if you really mean that there is littelary nothing to be taught, youre probablly wrong... Life relativisim, moral relativism, and neglecting everything and every meaning or doing and everthing at all, with that ,,knowing" that nothing is apsolutely true, is right and true only in a phyloshophycal theory, not in reality, or apsolut reality, or in this illusion in withch we exist, enyoj and suffer. We probablly very really, or very illusionary (look at a perspective witch you want) need knowledge, we have a lot to be taught, there exist or apper to exist thousends of questions and answers and so on... Quoting authoritys is not really a prove, but lets say that the ,,biggest non dual stars" also said so ... One more time, If i know i dont exist, there’s really nothing to be taught, and everything else what you said. I still will not (and this woluld be wrong) shit my pants, eat that shit, go take a gun and kill your kid, and then eat it, and make you watch all of this, and then cut of my leg... sorry for the extreme stuppid example for proving that we haw to be tought many things. sorry but sometis those examples work the best... We loose touch to much ,,with" being real, we take that no self experience or other meditativ states and appy it falsly to ,,real life" (us normal peple call real life) and at the end, we the non dualist end up deluded, but by doing that we sound smart and wise, and because we sound so, we belive thats it, and all to know and to do... but this is probably wrong, if not, the shiting pants story can start

Look at the life of Jesus, budha, Rupert Spira, Mooji, evan osho, and then look at those Enlightened people that become fat and alcoholics, they are much more likely to be guys from this forum or the ones who get it from drugs. In general I think that those people, who really did experienced those Enlightened staged, are not Enlightened people, those are ,,normal" people who experienced Enlightened stages, (and maybe not fully) and got depressed or depersonalized. Thats not it. There was more to go and they didnt make it. Evan oshos talks about the individual person, how beautiful that is, and that we should be who we are, and not trying to become something (like an Enlightened ,,person)... Maybe we didnt understand this path all the way, many stoped on those no self experiences... Also Leo talks how Enlightened people are compasionate, hawe extraordinary lifes, big lfe purposes and so on...

Properties of a ,,false prophet:" 1. emphesizing of self promotion, 2. popularity 3. they dont listen to ,,other opinions" they very rarly admit that they are wrong 4. false miracles and lies about superpowrs 5. they are materijalsts!!!! and gready Here is also a Jesus qoute: Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16“You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? 17“So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18“A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19“Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20“So then, you will know them by their fruits. - this can be also explained very easily, how much health treiners (personal trainer in the gym) have clients that manage to lose fat, what diet is giving results, and you see witch trainer is credibile and good, and witch is not... you can see that also in technology, witch camera makes good photos and witch ones makes crappy ones... Show me oshos fruits?????? show me his happy, fullfiled, enlightened followers? (who are, if possible, not littlary his cult followers who gave his life to the person osho, even them, how are they doing? )

Appeal to authority does not equal truth. So does also your appeal to Einstein and Nils Boar, or our appeal to you, and I am dogmatic to you because Im so inspired and i admire you. I also belive (and a belif is bleee blaaa blaaa) that first person (subjective experience) isnt valid, but to me it has big authority evan if it is a lie, false, and I very often dont know what it is... If I experience a meditativ state, evan a enlightened one, i dont have anything to back it up and support it, only my experience, and my belive/assumptions of what this experience could be, and what it could mean... However, I dont know, just saying, also you seem offended, and you reacted ,,unprofessional" or unenlightened (from a ego centre, not from a counciusnes, no self, compasionate ,,place") . Maybe it ,,hurts a bit" because it has some valid stuff in it... It's ok that some people can discredit some of your ,,claims and coclusions" and thats yous fine, youre still amazing and going the right path

I support non duality, I underastand it a lot, I often ask the same question on witch i NEVER get a logical answer that makes seanse, not evan close. This post from reddit is a good one, we discredit experts very easily, and talk superfically about many stuff... We give many assumptions and logical analogy witch is not facst at all, its just analogy, and analogy can be very easilly fited in a way that suporsts the starting claim. When somebody is smart, when somebody prepares a video, when this video is logical, and we belive in logic and what makes seanse, but is this a fact... As example, the flat earth people have a lot of logical claims and good arguments, but of course, we have facts... Non duality, has many unanswered questions, and 0 facts. First person experience is subjective, and nod valid at all. Some people experience being a bird, or that someone spys on them (schizophrenia). enlightenment could very easily be the experience of a standby mode of the brain/maind, thats why its hard to get there, and when you get there and realize everything, the next day you againg dont see it and cant get there (unlike any other realization) why, because its a mehanical thing, and its very hard to force the brain/maind into the standby mode. However all the non dual theroy is just pure assumption from the first person experience of enlightement, how much that experience is valid and credibile, what IT REALLY is, and what is means is or just assumption and belive, its logical assumption and belive backed up by anallogy, philosophy and cherry picked and subjectivly understod science. Not fact and science. btw. I still hope, non duality is true. I belive and know that the personality/ego is as relative and consturucted as it gets, so its ok to say that the ego or personal self is an illusion, but that the world and reality is illusion is an assumption made from first person experiences and from realizations about the illusions of ego/personality that are falsly contributed to what we call material world. The experience of a not separate self, or no ego (witch feels like we are all one, the three my body, and mind) is just the misinterpretation of the subjective feeling that we get when we free our self of the belive that the ego/personality is a ,,real not relative constant ,,thing". The experience of enlightement leads to many dogma. If A is not true, that does not mean that B is also not true. Edit: I just wanted to add, this guy has some hate to Leo, witch I dont, Leo and this site helped me big time, Leo is a great guys and he does his best, but we must be critic and sceptic, and I know (evan if I dont know what particular) some things that Leo (like everybody) says/thinks have to be wrong, thats how it ist, its impossible that everything that he says and expeins is right, maybe evan some basic stuff, some starting (non dual) ,,pillars" are also false (dogma or whatever), so, we have to be critical...

Two years ago i hade a glimps of no self, of the truth it was 3-4 seconds. It was from Leos guided meditation, and one of the most incredibile ,,evants" in my life, : I listened to this meditation 10 more times trought the year, two times it brought up some anxiety and faiting like state (a begining of a entrance in a no self state (I think). Now the meditation is not working, I cant ,,go back" or evan deeper... I know that a part of me is loging for repeting the experience but I'm trying not too... When i experienced it I was scared, and radicaly shochet that I'm littelary nothing, I wasnt ready so the ,,state" lasted very short... now I would love to feel that againg, I would evan love the fear and what not, its so amazing and interesting but that ,,nothingness isnt happening anymore" However, does anybody have a suggestion witch guided meditation to listen? Leo if you read this, maybe you have some other guided meditations? Ps. Ruper Spira is one of my favourites, but his guided meditation are very bad for me, and not working at all (the ones on youtube), it's much like just talking or explaining the same stuff like in ,,normal" videos just slower... Here is the question, he has also some guided meditations on his website that are for sale, did anybody buy those, and are the different from those that are free on youtube? (are the worth buying)

I am Enlightened, It's not like I thought it would be... Wait, who has thought that it would be in a certain way? Who is Enlightened? So Enlightement is not in one way, it's in another way, Enlightement has some properties/ways? I'm Just mental mastrubating and philosophising the topic statement hehe I read your answers on more serious question, especialy on your method, very helpful thx. Btw. Youre style of expression has a touch off ego pride in it, of course, thats only the judgemental perspective of my ego , peace

Some principles from it: going to your body, trought every parts, few times, confuses the sense of I, especially the one located in the head, if you mindfully rest your attention in your feets, hands, belly, then the sense of the I n the head or in the cheast weakends 2. imagine your past and then ,,erasing it" and imagine that it doesnt not exist, then the same with the future,, brings you into the now much stronger 3. deep breathnig relaxes you further the stronger you do that, deep breathing, going trought body parsts, and trying to forget your identity by ,,erasing" the past, future, your, goals, your problems and so on, brings you to the default mode, you feel light, strongly in the now, the mind slows down a bit also, but this last step of realizations (of being aware of being aware) and just pure being, is much more lickely to happen spontaniously then by any doing ... for me it was the most serious searching, evan thinking and analyzing, and i looked so hard for what is now and who am I, and I by my own realization, just ,,SAW IT" and became it, and here I'm two years later not evan ,,close to it"

Its the one I posted (Enlightenment - Part 3 - Creating An Experience Of No-Self), maybe you dont see the link, I dont know... Yes, I dont practice often, at the time i experienced this I practiced much more, i did also the wim hof metod (deep breathing, meditation and yoga) and I got such crazy insomnia (two years ago) that is still with me... But it seams i have to do it againg His guided meditetion still works, I get lighter and in a meditative state, but its not evan close to the no self realization state, I dont know if I would do the same guided meditation every day, maybe, but as I explained, now that i know the answer asking the question and searching makes no seanse somehow...

Also the obsticle that keeps me from ,,going to the other side" with this meditation or with any meditation that i do is this: When I did this for the first time I just started this path, I didnt really understand it evan intelectualy, I understud it a lot, but the no self part wasnt in my understanding then and i coundt really get it what that no ego state is, or awarness and so on (i read eckart tolle at this time, outspansky, had one mdma experience and so on), this guided meditation or better say inquiry gave me the answer witch i didnt know, i experienced it, then i know it... So i listened to Leos guided video, and really did search with all my attentin for my self, I also did everything what he said as strong and passionate as i could, and then, at the end of the guided part, (maybe the last 15 sec of the guided part) it started, i suddenly found my self, and it was nothing to find, but i found that nothing, you cant explain that, how can you find nothing, every day i can go and serch something and dont find it, but when you get that nothing, its like finding a thing but the thing is now --THE NOTHING--, not like you really didnt found nothing, because u found the real nothing (paradox, isnt it), and the room started expanding, i felt ligh or light like nothing and some other side stuff, stil my mind and worked and I wasnt my mind at at all, there was no difference betwen body, mind, wall because i wasnt that, i Wast nothing and that nothing was atctually in everything, like the body is made of nothing but its like nothing is a kind of material that is stil nothing as much nothing can get, then my mind started anallyzing it, and i got pulled back, I also was scared and schocked because before I Imagined it to be like love, light, bliss, something beautifull, but not nothing, a part of me (the ego) was disappointed... I was scared and it was so radical and a shock! a big shock! Also i needed a lot of time so i could fully understand what it was and how it was... Here is the obsticle, NOW i know what I am, (no i dont know, that was to little and not comparable what Leo or you guys experienced) and when I meditate or listen to this guide i know what awaits me, i know what I ,,search for" how it ,,feels" i want it, and i also try not to expect, not to search, not to await, but it's not working... The first time i searched for something and nothing came by it self, now (evan if i try not to) i search for nothing, and i only find the body mind senzations, it try not to serach and a lot other thing, but it aint working

It's more about the movie... A guy cheated his wife, and left her and the kid A woman cheated his man A guy cheated his wife, and ,,touched" his child... And other charachters with more or less similar ,,problems" Ok, thoose are all sins, especially ,,touching" the child, evan everything is relative but lets say thats just wrong, cheating in the light of poligamy and free sex is relative, but lying and not being truthfull to your partner is againg not that ,,good"... Hoever, here is the question, and what is maybe wrong with the message of the movie... All those charachters had life long sins and hard guilt that hunted them big time, and the only solution would be that they confess and if this should ,,heal" it would probbably be necessery that the other person forgives them...? But isnt that living in the past? Isnt that not real, isnt that not a problem of the ego? Cant they just accpet that, go one, still love them selfs, solve this internaly? just let go? Especialy if we think that everything is predeterminetad, thats who we are, and what we did, and how it is... Everybody has sins, and gulit (and what a sin is is relative and subjective for everyone, some sins more some less, some has guilt some not)... I didnt do such stuff like in the movie, but I have my sins and mistakes (like every one I know) and sometimes my past, or even my presents, hunts me, should I go out and tell and confess every lie what I said and that somehow borders me, should I go and try to make everything right? (and whats right and wrong its a question on its own), or should I meditate, and let go, accept and love my self and those things? I think it's a shame if something that you did hunts you 4ever and that you cant let go if you dont ,,confess," especially if it makes no effects in the now or in the future... So imagine the guy who cheated his wife once, and is fucked up because of that, the next 40 years, but everything is fine, the wife and kids happy (there is no such character in the movie) but a guy who ,,touched" his child, and such sin has ,,side effects" the whole life for him and for the child (so thats something that should be ,,fixed" and that is accepteble for a lifelong guilt, or not)? Please dont moralize over my examples, (I tried not to put in my own opinion in examples, only to write down some apects and point of views) those are examples, lets find out whats the general rule and a concreate way to act in situation like this (on hunting personal ,,sins" or mistakes), or similar to this??? Bonus: Because of language problems, can somebody explain to me the meaning of the song? what does it simplyfied want to say? (when i translate the words, word by word, somehow its not really clear whats the conclusion from that song) thx

@tsuki very sharp! I have now a much deeper inside on the structure and mehanisms from the topics in my post.

I didnt read all, but I have to say that it bad that i cant like posts or show to the good people who answered that i agree, i have to quoute or to answer to them and that is unpractical and also makes the post unnecessery bigger and less practical for other users to read ( we get bigger topics but one like or agree button could change that) also the agree or like must not be visible for other people, it enought that I know it and the person who wrote the answer... maybe there can be more buttons, like, dont like, agree, totaly disagree or whatever people suggested, Leo you choose at the end... peace

True... btw. I dont know why the like buttons are gone, so now when i want to show someone that I agree with them, or that i like what they say, i have to answer or qoute is there a topic that explains why the forum changed? maybe you know, just asking peace