legendary

Here's a suggestion: You are in a simulation. Use a cheat code. Try the 'Do-Nothing' and 'look at your hand' meditations while tripping on psychedelics. You'll be blown away! And then, you can aim to bring that level of surrender/Self-realisation into your daily meditations.

I hope the practices will show me that. At least for now, I'm not able to get to the realisation that I had during the 5-MeO trip through any other means.

So true! Paranormal> Normal> Obvious. Transitioning away from realism will be the biggest paradigm shift for humanity.

That's a good point. Although I think judging other people's experiences can be a slippery slope, especially given the mind's tenancy to self-deceive and bullshit. I agree with you. And most of us (at least I) have a long way to go before we transcend the Ox and the Self, so it's best to keep our heads down and do the practices.

I'm not qualified enough to comment on this. And we're way off topic here. This was never about Jan. The original question was about Liberation. And honestly, looking back at it, the concern about liberation/mukti arose from my dualistic and deluded point of view. Based on the feedback from everyone, here are my inferences: Of course, everyone is welcome to draw their own conclusions. Cheers

YouTube isn't his forte. Sam Harris is an intellectual public figure and commands respect in matters of the religion, mind and consciousness when it comes to academic circles. That's where he's able to have the biggest impact. Who, do you think is a professor of AI at MIT likely to know: Sam Harris or Pewdiepie? Subscribers aren't everything. Tim Ferris has half the number of subscribers as Leo, but obviously people in Silicon Valley are more likely to know him over Leo.

"Just think, Vishnu sleeps in the cosmic ocean, and the lotus of the universe grows from his navel. On the lotus sits Brahma, the creator. Brahma opens his eyes, and a world comes into being, governed by an Indra. Brahma closes his eyes, and a world goes out of being. The life of a Brahma is 432,000 years. When he dies, the lotus goes back, and another lotus is formed, and another Brahma. Then think of the galaxies beyond galaxies in infinite space, each a lotus, with a Brahma sitting on it, opening his eyes, closing his eyes." -JOSEPH CAMPBELL, The Power of Myths

I wouldn't be so quick to jump to conclusions. From his book, Lovebliss: Lovebliss is not a state of consciousness or an experience, although it will seem so in the beginning when you only receive it in glimpses. In the beginning, because you think of it as a state of consciousness or an inflow, you will think in terms of change. “How to change your consciousness from one state to the state of Lovebliss.” But the truth is, Lovebliss is not a state. It is the nature of Pure Being, the Self. No matter how much you change consciousness, you will not get it that way. You have to transcend all states of consciousness entirely. It's the Ananda part of Satchitananda, if you will. Again, I'm trying to practice open-minded skepticism here.

Thanks! I'm going to try this out soon

Interesting. People who have written about levels of consciousness in humans (e.g. David Hawkins) put paranormal abilities at a lower level than full enlightenment. So I understand how people might start experiencing 'crazy' phenomenon without grounding it in the Absolute and freak out as a result. True. As spiritual teachers advocate: Work towards enlightenment. If paranormal abilities present themselves, let them, but don't let that be a hindrance/distraction. Owing to the limit of interpersonal communication, we won't be able to conclude if this bliss that Jan experiences is fundamentally different from a state that lies in the domain of experience. The only way to verify is do the practices and see if you experience it yourself. And even after that, others might not believe you. #black_hole_effect

Healthy ego is one which allows you to operate on Level 3 of Leo's model

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jataka_tales It is said that Siddhartha Gautama had mastered different spiritual and yogic practices in his past lives, which is why he could start spiritual practices at the age of 29 and still get enlightened by 35.

Alright, fair enough Love that! Good point

Here you have it, straight from the horse's mouth: I do not, in any shape or form endorse Jan's assertions. I'm merely trying to come at this from an inquisitive stage yellow mind. As Jan explains, these angels (I have never experienced them) are manifestations of the dynamic creative potential of the Absolute Unmanifest God. So they are Nothing! It's just that the traditional interpretation of the word nothing doesn't do justice.

The true Guru is the Satguru, the inner Guru, God, Self, or whatever other name you wish to give it. This Guru has been guiding you, silently, toward your liberation. “He” is the same as all of the true physical Gurus, for their real identity is the formless infinite Consciousness that can appear in any form. Sri Ramana Maharshi used to say that the body-mind of a Guru is still an illusion, but an illusion that can wake you up. It is like a lion appearing in an elephant’s dream. It is powerful enough to wake the elephant up from the dream. -Santata Gamana You are God. Your aim is not to get enlightened, but to listen to your deepest, authentic desire and follow your intuition. Over time, you will burn through materialistic desires and that is when realizing the Self will become your highest priority. Of course you can use psychedelics and go on retreats, which will accelerate the process. No one, not even the Buddha, got enlightened in a single lifetime; which is not to say that you can't do it in this one.

https://www.primermagazine.com/2013/love/surviving-the-end-of-the-honeymoon-period

@Highest I had a similar intense experience on a space cake in Amsterdam. This happened about a month after smoking toad venom (Bufo Alvarius), which probably potentiated the cake for me. Have you broken through on other psychedelics before this?

Not completely true. From Wikipedia: Sri Ramana led a modest and renunciate life. However, according to David Godman, who has written extensively about Ramana, a popular image of him as a person who spent most of his time doing nothing except sitting silently in samadhi is highly inaccurate. From the period when an Ashram began to rise around him after his mother arrived, until his later years when his health failed, Ramana was actually quite active in Ashram activities such as cooking and stitching leaf plates He also tirelessly helped his devotees out of love, whether it be through physical darshans or through paranormal means. Perhaps at Ramana's level of spiritual development, he could do nothing but serve others out of love, which is what Tom was hinting at. I get the point you're trying to make, though.

Thanks! Do you think 5-MeO-DMT (or some other psychedelic) can be used for reaching full enlightenment?

Growing up in a traditional stage blue Hindu family, I have a slight bias against Karma. What determines whether an action is positive or negative? Is eating meat bad karma? How about drinking alcohol, sleeping with someone else's spouse, or smoking? Surely catching Bufo Alvarius toad and forcing it to squirt its venom so that people can smoke it can be bad karma! People like Tom Campbell argue that it's the thought and the intention behind an action that matters, and not the result itself, which is why he argues that becoming love ought to be the supreme goal of life. I'm in favor of living a sattvic life, but I'm interested to know what your concept of karma is. I've done a Vipassana Silent meditation retreat, which aims at dissolving karma, but what happens when you are out in the world? How does one know if they're helping or hurting themselves?

I have had elements of green since childhood, and I still haven't fully transcended them. Looking at my personality now I'd say I'm predominantly Orange and Green (90%) with some Yellow (10%) in there. My biggest challenge when trying to transcend green has to do with Climate Change concerns, worries about massive income inequality and idealizing Spiritual teachers/Gurus. As Leo has said a million times, awareness itself is curative and is the best catalyst in growing through these stages. Also, all criticism is untenable, so what stage you are at will be determined by what faction of the society you judge and demonize. And it is likely that you judge different factions of society from different stages. I tend to demonize big & greedy corporations, massive income inequality, and organized religion, which indicates stage Green in me. Yet, I also despise SJW mentality, political correctness and things like letting ex-ISIS members regain their citizenship. Most of this is stage Orange, with a dash of Yellow. For my climate change concerns: I started auditing MOOCs on edX and Coursera about renewable energy and climate change. I see, now that there are inherent limitations with renewable energy generation and how we are already taking action on this. JRE podcasts with Randall Carlson and Graham Hancock were also helpful in seeing how climate change concerns can be a major epistemological trap. For concerns about Massive Income Inequality, I started to: Understand how economies work and how to best balance capitalism with socialism. Follow right-wing and conservative YouTubers and understand their perspective. Idealizing Spiritual teachers/Gurus Meditate and do spiritual practices. Reduce the amount of time spent on YouTube in following these Gurus Overall: Argue less with other people and understand their perspective Get educated more on issues and understand the nuances involved. Transcending Stage Yellow: The biggest thing is turning inwards and letting go of all theory and concepts. These will obviously not be helpful when it comes to my engineering job, which I have massive ego-investment in. So it will be a while before I'm ready to fully transcend Yellow, which is not to say that I cannot have genuine Self-realization and understand God. Psychedelics are good cheat-codes.

So do I. Tom talks about the Larger Consciousness System being a finite system, which fundamentally goes against Absolute Infinity. Jan talks about seeing a Blue Being (Krishna) after reaching Sahaja Samadhi, and how Advaita Vedanta doesn't go all the way. But there's value in giving their perspectives and teachings an unbiased review.

The true Guru is the Satguru, the inner Guru, God, Self, or whatever other name you wish to give it. This Guru has been guiding you, silently, toward your liberation. “He” is the same as all of the true physical Gurus, for their real identity is the formless infinite Consciousness that can appear in any form. Sri Ramana Maharshi used to say that the body-mind of a Guru is still an illusion, but an illusion that can wake you up. It is like a lion appearing in an elephant’s dream. It is powerful enough to wake the elephant up from the dream. -Santata Gamana Problem arises when the Guru is viewed from a stage Blue/Green perspective and the student focuses on the finger rather than the moon. I have no idea about Mooji, but based on my conversations with people who have been to his events, he is the real deal. Not to say that he does not have any shadow.

Didn't we all agree on the limits of logic and rationality already? I don't think highly Self-realized beings disagree about the fundamental nature of reality. But they might disagree about the relative aspects/facets and ways to get Enlightened. E.g.: Buddhist monks say nothing about Kundalini and insist on following the Eightfold path, but Kriya Yogis insist on Kundalini being the fastest path to Enlightenment. Neither of them is a fake guru. As Leo said, spirituality is such a huge domain, that probably no one understands all of it well.

Agree with you. Thanks for sharing your insights The miscommunication only exists due to the relative/dualistic nature of language. Even Jan said how he can see people's subtle bodies and untie the knots in their Sushmana Naadi, thereby awakening Kundalini Shakti to rise. These are ways of talking about spiritual purification, just like the term 'raising your level of consciousness'. Haha, true. That's why it's important to go beyond stage Yellow and realize the limits of conceptualization.