outlandish

Siddhartha by Herman Hesse. Many of Hesse's books deal with consciousness/enlightenment and are good reads. Siddhartha is excellent and classic.

moo

I used to worry about these same questions a lot when I was younger. From everything I've seen, learned and experienced over the years, if you stick to responsible doses at responsible frequency (maybe no more than once a month) of the true psychedelics, there is nothing to worry about. Even if you were to abuse them a bit, you still don't have much to worry about. The proper psychedelics have a very high safety profile, and their use is even correlated with increased mental health. It's possible to have increased awareness after using PDs, which can be a minor stumbling block in terms of social situations, or learning, studying. You may start to notice things that you never did before, because you've stopped filtering them out, and this can be distracting in conversation sometimes. The same kind of thing can happen when you begin to meditate. But this is strictly "in your head", there is no physiological damage from using the proper psychedelic drugs. Many highly intelligent people (esp. in Silicon Valley) use psychedelics at least occasionally. The brightest and most creative people I know use psychedelics regularly, or at least have used them before. Psychedelics didn't make them smart, it's more of an indication that psychedelics aren't holding them back. And they're probably getting a slight edge in terms of creativity and insight. The empathogens like MDMA may cause some very minor amount of neurotoxicity, so their use should be extremely occasional IMHO. I tend to avoid using MDMA, but I know it can be a great heart-opener like no other, so there's a tradeoff. The dissociatives (which some people consider psychedelic), particularly DXM, seem sketchy to me. I don't touch them, but many people do and are doing just fine. If you use drugs like 5-MeO-DMT, DMT, LSD, mushrooms in safe settings, with controlled doses at fairly well spread out intervals, you should have no problems with the kinds of things you're talking about. Pay attention to how they affect you, so you can make that call for yourself as they do affect everyone differently, and there's no final word on this kind of thing. But the concern of your mind being dulled by them somehow, which seems intuitive, turns out to be a non-issue IMO. Of course all the things you mention will be problems while you're actually high, but I presume we're talking about long-term effects here. Nice profile pic BTW @Feeble Dave lol

@AlwaysBeNice To be clear, I'm talking here about long-term of effects here, not talking about directly combining the two drugs in the same session. I think that's what you're asking too. In principle, 5-MeO-DMT shouldn't affect your weed highs. The two drugs affect completely different receptors, so they shouldn't affect each other directly. However... many people report that weed highs become intensified and sometimes difficult to handle after starting to use psychedelics (psychedelics in general, not just 5-MeO-DMT). This seems true for me, but it's also hard to pinpoint it on having taken psychedelics. The same thing seems to happen naturally as people age as well. In my opinion the jury is out on this. I barely smoke weed anymore. I still do occasionally, but in really tiny amounts. I don't miss blazing hard like I did as a late teen, at all.

If you can't remember what happened, you've had a blackout, which means that you took too much, a psychedelic over dose. It's a good idea to follow Leo and others' advice to work your way up in dose slowly over a series of sessions, to learn how you react to 5-MeO-DMT (or with any psychedelic really). Personally, I'm not a big fan of seeking gurus for this kind of work, in a way I think your outlash had some truth to it, because you are your own guru. It's too bad it came out nasty and you had to travel through 3 countries to get there. Hopefully you guys had a laugh about it after it was all over. I think Visionary's cautionary note is really insightful, and important for all of us to be aware of!

Cetus check out this erowid report of someone who did just that... whilst also on acid https://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=9473

I posted this in the jokes just the other day but... "Abstinence makes the Church grow Fondlers" There's a reason there's so much sexual abuse in religious orders that mandate celibacy in it's clergy. The attempt to cut sexuality out from our nature by force fails time and time again. There's no getting around it, we are sexual beings. Some people choose a life of celibacy and make it work, without it leaking out into creepy sexual behaviour. But when we put that expectation on others it doesn't seem to turn out well. There's also a reason that almost every spiritual practice has something to say about sexuality. This is a big clue that sexuality is related to spirituality. It's deeply intertwined in who we are.

Yeah I've bookmarked it and plan on going back to it too. Watts was a really wise man, at least when he spoke publicly and wrote. It's too bad he destroyed himself with booze.

I believe everything is related to spirituality, how can some things can be spiritual while others or not? Some things sacred, some profane? It doesn't make sense dividing the world up like this. I still do it to some extent, but I think that kind of division is false. So in that sense, of course it is, but what isn't? Analyzing it though, sexuality is at the roots. On a freudian/psychoanalytical level, it's one of our deepest drives and motivators. On a deeper level, in the process of examining the nature of being in this reality, we come across the fact that sexuality is a fundamental expression of the dual/polar nature of existence.

That Alan Watts essay was really good ^ wow. Thanks for sharing it @cetus56

I've never heard of that compound, very interesting. Respectfully, I disagree. 5-MeO-DMT refers unambiguously to the molecule where a methoxy is attached to the 5-position on a DMT molecule. 4-HO-5-MeO-DMT is specifically the one you mentioned. 5-MeO is a bit ambiguous and leads to misunderstandings where people get confused and don't even know what they're taking. Totally agree with you on this tho: "If one's not smart enough to know the differences, one probably shouldn't be touching it"

@Hunter Arrington I don't find 5-MeO-DMT to be panic inducing at all, so I don't see the point in worrying about it, but maybe it's just me. I've read a lot of accounts where people talk about the fear, the terror, but that hasn't lined up at all with my own experience. There is a strong ... excitement? Thrill? Possibly it is fear? .. as you approach the catharsis. Your heart begins to pound in your chest so hard and you can tell its coming. You accept it, give up on thinking and analyzing it and let it happen. It's challenging to describe the experience, because it's outside the normal framework of language. In my opinion, it's exactly what meditation traditions like zen point towards. I can see how people would interpret it as God. After this peak it's absolute ecstacy as energy pours through your being. It feels like you've tapped into the source and it's all just pouring through you, like the tap is wide open and you are the conduit between the ground level of existence and our material world. That's my perspective anyways, from only 2 proper experiences with it at doses I'm still working up on. So my perspective on it could change or become more fleshed out down the road.

@Arman Hard to describe how big the line is cause it depends how fat you make it. It doesn't look that big, but it is taxing on the sinuses. I prefer dealing with some sinus pain, than the sketchy feeling I have trying to vape the freebase. One thing that's helped me a lot with the sniffing route is this: After sniffing it I lay down on my back and get my head tilted back a bit using a pillow under my shoulders and neck. This made a world of difference for me, somehow it really reduces the pain and helps prevent post-nasal drip. After the session, I rinse my sinuses out with some salty warm water to clean them out. There's no sinus pain after doing this, and the next day it feels like nothing happened.

I can't answer your question about smoking vs. snorting because I haven't taken smoking it all the way, but it does seem like from reports that both are effective, just different. Regarding dosages, with 5-MeO-DMT and any pure psychedelic, you really must use a scale to measure your dose. Please get one! Otherwise you're just rolling the dice, because it's impossible to accurately eyeball a dose of this stuff. You can buy a scale that's good enough for about $20 on amazon, or a better one for under $80. @cetus56 No it doesn't come in a patch, and that wouldn't be a very good ROA for it either.

@Leo Gura Nice one chief! @AlwaysBeNice The main difference between the two is more from the ROA (route of administration) that they are used. HCL is for your nose, freebase is for vaporizing. It's possible to vape the HCL, but it's harder on your lungs and burns more easily than freebase, so it's not recommended. Likewise, you could snort the freebase, but it would probably hurt your nose a lot more than the HCL (because it's got a basic pH). The differences in intensity and duration is due to the ROA and not the form of the drug (aside from the 20% difference due to molecular weight you mentioned).

This thread illustrates why it's important to refer to it as 5-MeO-DMT and not just 5-MeO (or DMT for that matter). It's wordy, but it's important to be precise. If you're too lazy to spell it out or say the whole thing, you probably don'y need to be talking about it.

@Leo Gura Could we have a 5-MeO-DMT megathread? It seems threads like this trip report are getting hijacked for general 5-MeO-DMT discussion. Perhaps it would be good to have a centralized place to discuss it.

Yeah, I agree this needs to be investigated It's good to have this forum for us to share information on the matter. It's the same thing for me, my one breakthrough 5-MeO-DMT experience was more insightful than probably all my meditation experience combined. Or at least it went much much further and deeper than anything else prior, and I think I've only caught the faintest whiff of the tip of the iceberg so far. My theory right now is that having some meditation practice/experience, lays the groundwork for being able to work with 5-MeO-DMT in a "spiritually" (I dislike using that word, but it is convenient) productive way. However, I'm also aware that with psychedelics it's really easy to get trapped in the idea that "my" way of doing it is the correct way, and that everyone should do it the same way. So I think it's entirely possible that any old Joe off the street who's never even dipped a toe into the spiritual waters, would have a transcendental experience with 5-MeO-DMT. I'm curious what others think about this.

I tend to agree with jse above in that 5-MeO-DMT or any other magic pill isn't going to "make you enlightened" - it's not that mechanical. It does grant you the possibility of an enlightenment experience, but that doesn't necessarily change anything about you once the effects wear off. You know what they say - "Before enlightenment: chopping wood, fetching water. After enlightenment: chopping wood, fetching water"

DiPT is diisopropyltryptamine, so it has a pair of those isopropyl groups attached to the N. 5-MeO-DiPT is also a very distinct drug from 5-MeO-DMT. I've never tried it, but it's effects certainly have more in common with 5-MeO-MiPT than 5-MeO-DMT. A lot of people don't like 5-MeO-DiPT, but some do. If you'd like to learn more about these compounds, a good place to start is the bluelight forum

Yes, that's why their abbreviated names look similar. MiPT stands for monoisopropyl. The isopropyl group is the branched thing attached to the nitrogen (N) in the diagram. Mono because there's one of them. In drug chemistry, small changed can make a big difference in the way they interact with receptor sites. 5-MeO-MiPT is a very different substance from 5-MeO-DMT. It's worth checking out, and I encourage safe experimentation, but should not be considered equivalent at all.

I've tried it a few times. Despite what it might look like from the name 5-MeO-MiPT is a completely different species from 5-MeO-DMT, and isn't very comparable, although it does have things in common.

I think Azrael's description above is very good. I like the discussion around here! I'd just like to add something regarding risk: What risks are you concerned with? In my opinion taking 5-MeO-DMT isn't too risky. It's not to be treated lightly, but in terms of concrete risks, there's not much to worry about. I'm not pressuring you into taking it at all, no one should take it if they're uncomfortable with it. But I do want to make sure the facts are out there on the safety of this substance, so that people aren't being scared away for false reasons. There are so many misconceptions around the safety of psychedelics in general. A lot of this comes from plain old lies and exaggerations that we were taught in the "just say no" campaigns etc. The important thing with 5-MeO-DMT and any psychedelic is to start with a really low dose, and work your way up with it so that you can observe how it affects you step by step. This is also a good way to build confidence with it and see if there are any risks. I've never heard of people having health problems from 5-MeO-DMT. However if you have a heart condition, or mental health condition like schizophrenia, it would be best to away from it.

Abstinence make the Church grow fondlers.

Smoking it just didn't feel right, my body didn't trust it. I found it hard to accept it into me when I don't trust that the vapour isn't harming my lungs etc. Might be irrational, but I decided to not bother with that ROA. I've found snorting works fine for me. I think it's fine that you didn't get a specific meaning from your 5-MeO-DMT experience. Everyone experiences these things in a different way, and a specific meaning kind of misses the point anyways. But if you are seeking a spiritual experience from it, maybe you should try insufflation, it does give more time to adjust to the altitude and take it in. I also think that this substance would complement a spiritual/meditation practice very well and give you the tools/skills to be able to get more out of it or navigate the space well. I don't mean to be speaking like an authority on this because I'm really new to it, just some ideas. Yes 1mg was wildly different from 20mg! 1mg insulf. gave just a tiny shift in perception. Almost placebo. 20mg was a deep, transcendental experience. Size of dose doesn't really affect duration so much, it mostly affects the magnitude of the effects.