ValiantSalvatore

@Codrina Thanks for the feedback I try to get into the wim hof method. In given time, with longer cold showers. Then try to go to only cold for like 7 days that is a bit too much currently I could not do that showering only cold, for now.

@d0ornokey Yellow: would be about only functionality of food, quality of food, calories, vitamins. Not in an orange perspective of oh it is useful, let's eat it! Yet, in terms of how does this affects my body, how does it affect my feelings, do I contribute to factory farming, global warmth etc? Is it useful to eat it then, potentially there are alternatives and options to choose which do not harm the spiral. Or maybe I just hide inside it and eat what I want, but go vegan/veg with the ideologue social justice warriors or explain it away! So, potentially tailoring a diet that fits one's unique situation from all the options and alternatives out there. Also, steadily adapting that. For e.g I want high performance, I want to eat ethically not ideological, I want to eat what I want and enjoy life, I want to eat healthy etc. Then seeing the systems in systems in it how functional is it to eat what I want, what does it contain, how does it affect me. How is it delivered? Who produced it in the first place. A person at yellow would never force ones nutritional dogma onto another person, he may try carnivore diet, goes vegan then, eats pescetarian, becomes a flexitarian, then a veggie and finally becomes food himself and is eaten! Most likely yellow also wants high-quality food that is functional without all the "fluff", for instance, superfoods and smoothies that have high calories and are healthy, ideally tasty. Not sure if taste plays a role at yellow, yet I find other stages are quite obsessed with food. Saying food makes me happy ( it is one of the activities that makes humans the happiest IIRC) or people who can't hold themselves back, saying there is nothing better than eating! I love food etc. Yellow might still be really really into food but is a bit more detached from the food craziness. IMO Turquoise would be more: Will I solve global issues with my food intake? Do I want to be part of the problem or the solution? Does the solution work if we work together holistically in communion? What food can I buy to contribute to help the world holistically, in my mind, body, external systems of food production, small farmers, shops and what not. What is spiritual food, will it make me feel more connected to the divine? How can food express spirituality? Do I just eat mindfully? Or is food something to be worshipped in a sense. + Yellow perspective of functionality and health.

@Codrina That sounds rough. I never tried it with only cold water. Do you use some breathing technique like the wim hof method or anything like that ? I am curious. I always started to dance and tried to sing a little while under the cold water, to deal with the uncomfortable feeling of the cold. I warm to cold shower approx 3-5 times a week.

Would everything not be a partial truth. The question is what is absolute? In that sense or what is true, that can be observed from different perspectives 1 Person, 2, 3. To prove some truth of another objective. Even with the photon. In a state of "superposition". If there is no observer who can tell the thing observed is existing in an absolute state since it is always changing. Then there would be no absolute proof? How can one even tell the photon is in a state of superposition when it always changes when it is observed? Who did the observation in the first place to claim the superposition exists which is the state of "non-observation"? Is it not similar to the "paradox" who guards the guards? Same with the 1. person perspective of a guru saying he is levitating if there would be an absolute truth a state of superposition. The guru is levitating by his claims(subjective reality) and not levitating in objective reality. What resolves a paradox? Or does one have to consider always both in case of uncertainty? Even if this would be partially true because I am claiming here who can argue with one's subjective reality, like the photon being an ass and doing both when not observed. (Inside the sun taking million years to produce a sunray IIRC!) Let's say the guru is trying to pontificate something by saying he is levitating! he could be internally free saying he is levitating meaning his subjective experience is true. Yet, objectively it is always false, which would be the second person or the observation. So from an absolute 1. Person perspective there is nothing wrong. Which each perspective it most likely gets only more complex. 3rd Person could be edited so he is actually levitating. No idea a partial truth gives a clue to a more whole truth, using the whole Wilberian lingo, to explain this. So, when an observation has some partial truth it will ultimately lead to a more whole truth, potentially it remains partially at some level and becomes more whole on another. Weird example in vipassana from what I've heard... the end goal will be to crack the habit of the observer observing itself. Like there is no meta realm... anymore. You would reach an absolute and resolve a paradox?

I try to pick them up as well as I can and adapt. Depending on what I do for instance traveling, I did lying meditation since I was uncomfortable meditating there on a chair. So, I looked for how to keep myself awake. Same goes for long train rides, where I had to share a cabin. I definitely would plan in advance which habits, to keep and which to change. For instance, during my internship in London, I wanted to work out more and went for 5k runs approx. after work. 3-4 times a week. Since gyms were too expensive. When you go for an early weekend trip, you can still stand up 30 min earlier if you have to go in the morning and do a 30 min meditation, at night a 30 min meditation then also. If you have a practice for 1h. Potentially, using similar cues. For instance currently, I always have my bag packed for the gym, leaving the dirty clothes (yes) on the chair, since I will use them again anyway. So, my shoes, etc are in there and I've been able to maintain a gym routine now with traveling back home. Scheduling tasks in advance can also help. I use a bullet journal and sketch out my day and ideally a week. Setting time blocks. It's a rough guideline and writing it stuff down helps. I also struggle with consistency when I hit setbacks, depression, etc, last year was the first year in 3 years where I did not meditate daily, for a couple of weeks (also to test it..), for approx 2 months total, a week there, etc. When I did a 14day meditation retreat in a Zen temple, some people maintained their studying habit if the places allow it and it is important to you. Go ahead, I wanted to have the full experience and did not use my phone for 14 days.

I liked meditating and setting intentions before, I also used my journal and wrote down intentions and a guideline for how the trip should proceed. I would also recommend a low dose at the beginning, I noticed that I could do more after that and there is no real rush to anything, especially when one takes time off. Also, on a low dose doing formal meditation for the normal amount of time, one would usually do it is a good idea. It is good for seeing the potential how powerful this substance (mainly I tested LSD) is. Also, doing it during daylight and early in the morning, preparing food and stuff in advance a bit. Potentially psychedelics and darkness do not mix, so to sniffle a bit into the darkness when a trip last 8-12h IIRC, could also be good. Yet, I would cross-reference and definitely use psychonaut wiki and erowid to see all the effects, so you could even go for one specific experience, by setting intentions. Also, to have a clue how visual phenomena are being experienced, they have some very cool gifs.

@Arnold666 Do you go from warm to cold, when doing a "cold shower" or do you directly only use cold water for a cold shower?

@Joseph Maynor A user on this forum sent a great e-book about dating that is more in accordance with david deida, the way of superior men and does not emasculate without the pickup stuff and the book basically demonizes pick up a bit and explains why it does not work to a degree. I generally feel women have less ego, yet they define their ego in terms of their social relationships and their relationships. Men are obviously, more attached to their work and material things, status, and power. It thinks it goes both ways, that the ego is just differently expressed in more societal terms, in order to have a chance to not be demonized by a societies standards, which is also counteracted by individualism nowadays. Or collectives standing up for smth. see feminism. Yet, still, I often feel that her ego becomes yours. Which is odd to deal with. Considering what I read years ago in a spiritual perspective from the Varadarajan or thunderbolt tradition in Tibet. Is that women often embody wisdom on the spiritual path, and men are doing the spiritual path. Which with all the talk, yoga seems to fit better for women since it is more feminine in nature like nature. I generally would say women would have an advantage even in the spiritual path because they are more sensitive, yet this is also a hindrance or could be. For instance, women who project their emotional attachments are horrible, yet a woman who is more attuned with her emotional side, can also be more masculine. Meaning she becomes more feminine and therefore is more comfortable in the masculine. So, at a stage yellow emotional line or even gender identity line. (Integral Psychology). The difference between ego expression diminishes, yet should also be expressed in a more healthy way. Depending on the nature of the person. So, a man can rely more on the masculine side of things and slip into the feminine and be caring, vulnerable and emotional, while she does the work. And I take care of the children. So, there is a constant role swapping even in parenting I assume. So, anything under stage yellow is expressed more in a dichotomy of the feminine and masculine. While higher stages most likely transcend it altogether. Biologically, depending on how the person is wired, I assume women still become more egoic, about caring and become more possessive of bonds between social relationships. Yet, even these changes nowadays with hormone injections and what not. Men, most likey dominate, want power, seen as strong, status, put others down, compete. So, I would say their ego goes more into a way of grandiosity and status, outcome and product of work, effort, and abilities. Still, this also counts for women, yet I feel men are more expressive of their ego in that way. HEY look what I can do! P.S Gender union is described as becoming one with the gross releam of creatrix. But these words do not make sense even when I translate them.

Inattentive is being distracted easily, missing that people are talking to you, bad memory and inability to recall, so missing keys stuff like this. Hyperactive is being unstable, constantly wanting to move, moving one leg up and down constantly, can't sit still, talks fast, and people. Is that correct? For a general description of ADHD for these two types. I don't know how it affects him, he seemed quite sensitive so I refrained from asking stuff like this. Can you send a link to the machine? Sure, I am constantly looking for some ways, yet networking in uni is pointless according to advice from cal Newport. Attending events is something else. Interesting, I watched videos and found one studio that is not a sect. I also looked into sadghurus programms, would love to go to India for 5 months to learn yoga hardcore, because of having a support structure hence building an infrastructure. Works very well for me. Also, from the description above gives me more "reasons" to do hatha yoga. It's quite unfortunate that nothing seems to work, hopefully, you find something! Did you really never try a do-nothing technique?

@kieranperez Is the adaptation not better as when stuff is normal or baseline? Or is it better without any kind of nootropic add. Meditation for 1h definitely helped, I broke my schedule to two times 30 min a day which is somehow not that effective for monkey mind. Did you ever try a do-nothing technique for some time? I bet this soudn stupid when reading.

@kieranperez Sounds legit. In case you have not tried bacopa you could give it a shot. Potentially it can help since it is not a synthetic component and would not mix as much with the synthetic stuff, it's an adaptogen. So, it also reduced stress and or rather increases stress resistance. Also, effects of adaptogens can overlap which nullifies the effect one specific effect other effects do work. ( lions mane, bacopa, ginseng most likely etc. are adaptogens) Bacopa definitely can/could help be an aid, and the effects are long term even without bacopa? Not sure if IIRC. Yet, the hold long if you take them for longer then 8-12 weeks. I do not recall the study/paper anymore. Yes, I did read that, I know someone who took addreal or how this stuff is written and he is the best person in our courses, even though he played video games in class etc. He often worked at night and he was industrious, I don't know him well though. So, I don't know if it bothers him. Yet, I assume it does not. He is also dyslexic. Still, very intelligent guy. Our crazy performance prof hired him lol. Would be very cool if you find an affordable device, I looked into the topic yesterday. I also heard the very good devices are just not affordable. Also, yoga sounds very cool. I would love to get into yoga, but this small town here is just horrendous. Does yoga help against add? If yes why?

@kieranperez Lion's mane and bacopa moonerie are supposed to help. I don't have ADHD, my teacher who had ADHD once asked me if I had it, because I seemed to be so inattentive. I tried both, in case you forget a lot bacopa can definitely help, it takes a while though before the effects kick in 8-12 weeks, and the baccosid percentage has to be somewhere of 35% to 55%. I read through the studies. As well as I can. Lions mane can work immediately, it was not very effective for me, l-theanine a bit more. Yet, I don't know if it works with dealing with ADHD, Lions mane most likely can't hurt. Here is also a different perspective of ADD and do-nothing meditation. I did a retreat for 14 days last year in the soto-zen lineage. After that I felt processes were more streamlined and I was not so troubled by monkey mind. I tried the technique also at home, for some time. I had the deepest experiences with this technique so far, even during LSD trips, so it could aid both, a path to enlightenment and dealing with ADD. It is supposed to also be the quick and dirty way to enlightenment. According to this teacher. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNV6Y_JlhoA I bought a stack of nootropics that seem high quality but are cheap price wise. To deal with inattentiveness, I will write a report when I am done testing them, yet this is mostly for the inattentive type of ADHD, and has caffeine in it.

@universe What kind of meditation do you practice? I looked into the Sedona method, it's not what I meant, it seems more a self-inquiry technique, yet not a fundamental principle of a visualization technique.

@now is forever Sure, I won't I often find that creativity shines there. It should be somewhere on the 4 charts where the motivations are described of each vMeme.

@now is forever This is mainly what I have in mind after reading the chart yesterday and all the audiobooks. I ordered the older version of spiral dynamics from don beck. The audiobook version is quite unsatisfying if you want to have some juicy details, the author even mentions that in the audiobook. What are hybrids? Theory and practicality combined? Sure, purposefully driven stage red drives for creative means can be nice. Yet, I really would like to know what creativity is in that regard. When I see musicians it or I just listen to instrumentals of music, I can see and feel stage red often. Same for sports, or when I listen to people talk/explain. It's quite funny when stage blue get's mad at stage red during a soccer game.

@now is forever I can see why, stage red is associated with unconstrained creativity. Or with creativity. Spiral Dynamics in Action presents that as that. In one chart.

@Charlotte https://integrallife.com/the-3-2-1-shadow-process/ The video explains the process very well. Also, it shows the talking chair method. Which the 3-2-1 method is based on with a partner even. The sign-up for 30 days only is worth it. I used to do it and was cheap, now I am a member of the forum there. https://integralchurch.wordpress.com/2013/10/05/3-2-1-shadow-process/ Explains the process very well. This is what I started with. I still anticipate that psychedelics and shamanic breathing are the best way, yet the 3-2-1 process most likely is the safest. @now is forever I'd love to give a more elaborate answer, I have to go soon. I notice this tendency of being perfect is especially, in Germany now a bit more common under millennials. Near my city, a military base is stationed with 50k Americans largest base outside of u.s. So, I see a lot of orange/green, blue/orange people in "my" region from the American culture. Which explains a bit the perfect, excellence, discipline paradigm for me. Especially, with Instagram nowadays and the internet. What I meant to say is I have similar tendencies, about perfection you see something perfect a couple, a financial situation, intelligence you name it literally. Shadow work can unearth some of these tendencies, especially with loving-kindness it helps. I used to be very jealous of other people with very cool cars, even if I do not like cars that much. I did tong-leng and whished them happiness, and was happy instead for them. Only for 5-10 minutes a day for 1 and a half years or so. This worked wonders. / quite well. What is the book about? I watched a couple of series from Ken Wilber about shadow and other YouTubers. + Audiobooks where it is often mentioned

@Joseph Maynor From watching a videos and listening to audiobooks and series where shadow work is mentioned or a topic. Using the 3-2-1 process which is similar to Fritz Pearls technique or a basically a derivate of gestalt therapy. The link to the exact extraction of the technique from wilber from the original work. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gestalt_therapy#The_empty_chair_technique. I'd have to read the whole thing to give a technical/detailed analysis. Reading through the original wiki clears things up. imo What I notice is when I project that I am denying qualities and tiny treasures inside myself, behaviors, world views, "stages" in terms of spiral dynamics, situational relating, and so forth. Projection largely for me is the denial of qualities in oneself which have been denied or repressed, as a means of ego survival. Seeing all this in relation shadow work, projection and shadow. As an example in your journal, you posted your big 5 aspects ... so, for instance, I score in the 41 percentile of assertiveness which is below average for a male. Now when I meet people who are very extroverted and assertive, this used to trigger me in the past, I always felt it is disrespectful and cold. But, I admired the audacity and how unabashed extroverted people are. So, I immediately used this in shadow work because it was a trigger from the unconscious and noticed that I project my own unabashed, cold-hearted nature on to them and their way of anger and conflict management, was more of a healthy ego measurement to stand up for one's SELF. Now, when I am being more assertive now after doing shadow work, I am not fearful anymore of saying what I want, saying no, saying yes I care, no I do not care, and basically stopped being a victim, yet my own non-caring attitude or low pivotal point of assertiveness still remains. It's like I have the means to the end, but I have to stick through it through the end with a healthy more integrated low assertive assertiveness mean/s. Which is not always easy, yet helps to resolve conflict with assertive people more easily. Another example is Vulnerability, very emotional people who are vulnerable used to trigger me immensely, and push my own emotional buttons, even in a healthy manner hurts and still hurts today. Depending on how sensitive the person is. I projected my own denied qualities of caring and caretaking on to them, seeing them as irrational, weak or unable to assess competence since they are so fluffy. Now, I found my own fluffiness through shadow work and the projected qualities of being irrational and weak, and unable to assess competence even comes in handy. For instance consider the dunning-krugger effect the most sensitive person has the most potential to see this IMO, see any INFP. Being irrational gives me more leeway to talk crap and not feel the need to be the expert 24/7 and felt like I am able to chisel concepts in a free-floating manner more easily. It's like building sky castles. It does not exist, yet it was constructed somewhere, even if not real. This won't really make sense, or IT! TOTALLY does.

Would love to see this. Especially Joe hitting Leo's processor rather vice-versa. Would be interesting to see what ideas both of them craft, and the unfoldment of a discussion of a myriad of topics.

@MM1988 I enjoy and enjoyed listening and watching david deida. He is the author of the way of superior men. Which cuts all this alpha beta crap thinking. I never practiced any of this, besides taking the advice and looking for cues. From audiobooks mostly. Or one YouTube Series.

@Jj13 This is what I found during. Googling for it. http://integralacademy.eu/about/ken-wilber In September 2006 JFK University in California and Fielding Institute of the East Coast were the first universities offering an MA level graduate programs on Integral Theory. In addition, Integral Institute continues to offer a wide range of workshops and seminars in the field. https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/california-institute-of-integral-studies-12154 The description looks very "yellow" considering the quadrants from Ken Wilber. The page looks very green from the official university.

1. Meditation 2. Journaling 3. Attending retreats 4. Going abroad to China for half a year 5. Going to uni/college

@universe I like it that you name the obvious! I was still a bit confused though. I want to visualize positive emotions, or scenery, change behaviors and use that as an aid, to be more effective and affective in the outside world.

@kieranperez For limiting believes I tired the exercise from Leo and also from one of his books from the booklist, which were a major game changer for me. The most secular approach without reading much from any tradition besides like the bible when I was young and a bit of the bahavagita and the complete Dao de Jing. Is from Shinzen Young, the loving-kindness practice that he teaches and describes, which includes body emotions, for e.g imagining ideals, visualizing positive emotional states and retraining cognition through mantras, also through feeling and thinking. Can be a nice addition to shadow work, retraining behavior or even the nervous system, from what I've watched now from Paul Check on YouTube. I am trying this since I've heard from Ken Wilber that Vipassana blocks the shadow and I wanted to integrate it. I can recommend Shinzens approach to loving-kindness, yet I don't know what more devotion oriented traditions to practice. So, potentially it could be to cognitive, yet in this technique fundamentally you decide. So, you can keep in mind that even cognition influences emotions, yet I am not a pro, so take all of this with a grain of salt. I would definitely try a shadow work technique longer than 3-4 months. Most likely are psychedelics the most effective, but radical way, and it will also depend on the substance.

@kieranperez First of all yes I like the technique a lot, yet because I like writing and I loved journaling at the beginning of my meditation journey/self-actualization journey. Since then it is a valid tool for exercises for PD and just mental health aspects, like constant rumination etc. I used and still use a physical journal. Ken or some other author mentions that it takes some time and one is supposed to observe his behavior, in the description about shadow work. I started in 2017 with shadow work regularly and wrote, like each fking day longer than the recommended time. Because of emotional triggers like for me... intelligence, arrogance, hate, resentment, emotional pain and a lot of situational triggers plagued me. Which brought insight into the emotional state. It clearly helped me describing emotions in a more granular manner + I felt I was integrating a "shadow". Or the unconscious self. I still sometimes wonder that new behaviors and interaction paradigms show up, yet they are small, yet big inside. Also, I found lost identities and tendencies have been unearthed, I feel more healthy in that regard to most people who triggered me for instance. (family members, classmates etc. romantic interests ) I find the 3-2-1 process is a vanilla version of shadow work from what I have a presentiment about what could work more effectively. I really like this technique since I can't afford to go crazy, which I feel breathing practices could make me do. I used to smoke weed and had a heavy emotional body load then and I keep feeling this pain inside my chest solar plexus where I feel my "shadow" or energy lingers and had a couple of breakthroughs now with meditation and the shadow work always made me feel the spot. One is supposed to take in the feelings of what one wrote down, if you are an emotional type, you can use that to your advantage I turned on music and wrote what I felt, also not and wrote what I felt. To the degree where I wanted to cry, cried, or was mad, or surprised at the end, also that I integrate that feeling, identity (persona or alter-ego) so I sit for a couple of seconds not long. After a 10-20min session of figuring out and going through the process, in my opinion, that is fine. I also tried psychedelics (LSD) more than a handful of times and wrote down emotional triggers and insights I had which I could do shadow work about. The psychedelic experiences themselves helped more than the practice that is why I want to try shrooms. This changed me more than shadow work, although shadow work at least the 3-2-1 process changed me gradually over time. I was, for instance, the one who is arrogant and hubristic, wanted to express intelligence (be smart), and anger has decreased, yet I still struggler with this one, also to be expressive or even feminine and masculine. I can see what you mean I felt the same too, yet in the description from Ken he says to watch one's behavior for weeks, days and months to come. So, I stuck with it and I feel a changed definitely, a major changed. Depending on what is major, but behavior and interaction change is sort of major. Integration happens (for me) naturally, you unearthed the belief, emotion, situation, or alter-ego and are free to express it. It is a bit odd to express it, for instance, a new persona. But some are just fun. TBH I am going to be an arrogant prick, but unearthing intelligence and arrogance were madly fun and it is fun, yet it is not TOXIC anymore or at least not that TOXIC anymore. Sometimes it hurts in a pissy sort of feeling. Ken Wilber also mentions Shadow Work never ends in his Audiobook Integral Transformation and some shadow traits are inherently biological. So, cleaning up never ends apparently. BTW: you posted the same post about Wilber as me,(Multiple Intelligence video series last week or so) in case you want to know more about the 3-2-1 process, you can click on integral life on community my username is once3800. I wrote a question about shadow work and received an answer from a lady who has 38 years experience in yoga and now did the 3-2-1 process. For a different take on the issue. I also really enjoy the video series of Dr.Keith and Corey. Here is one about shame I took some notes on the video over one weekend. https://integrallife.com/integral-mindfulness-and-the-evolution-of-shame/ Besides that if the approach is to rational, I would try the breathing techniques like shamanic breathing, I feel I penetrate the core and can't go fully crazy atm. When things are more save yes, I will try it, but for now vanilla version. Testing them for more than 3-4 months, ideally, half a year is a good approach IMO. Others might think otherwise.