ValiantSalvatore

@Inliytened1 The point about coral is it would be third tier, so it would be another giant leap. I know there are different spectrums I took a test a while ago which helped to clear my political stance since we do not have a bicameral system in Germany. It's a cool test a lot of people that I know complain about America and are confused that they do not have a liberal party. So, potentially this expands the whole viewpoint. https://www.politicalcompass.org/test. Yellow would be more lenient about his or hers choice of a party imo, since they want something that works. So, there would not be a rigid structure to staying within the influence and reach of one specific party. As a voter. So, it could potentially be more left or even more conservative depending on the situation at hand and information at disposal. Turquoise would be more spiritual tackling macro problems with macro management for a common good, yet that is not possible IMO without a unified globe, that is as bad as Donald Trump jumping out of the transatlantic protocol, in a predominately orange world in the west and advanced east. (Call me racist) Not sure if he left the nato? Coral is third tier, from what I've read. So, no idea in the book from don beck it says things are addressed on a planetary level. So, there is no left and right, really more a whole that needs to be addressed. See the political compass and it's four quadrants.

@CreamCat That is exactly the point to integrate it all. It sounds nuts, and sort of is. Like question sanity on an LSD trip. Just imagine the following scenario you sit somewhere on a bridge in 400 ad or so correct me if I am wrong. And you just sit and meditate, no sense of self-actualization etc. You are basically useless to society, people would potentially rob you and steal money from you, kill you if they are some delinquents. How nuts do you actually have to be to sit there ones whole life and do nothing? Yet, it could radically change ones live if applied strategically. Like, see any study. In that form itself, meditation is a self-actualization practice. I watched the videos about Jim Qwik and liked them a lot and want to get my brainberries, which they did not have today. Yes, a lot of people lack stage orange aspects, I lack for instance a lot of stage blue. With discipline and truth, hard work and discipline so I watched a lot of JP and took the big 5 and watched his lessons and opinions on the model since he knows the literature. Today we had a guest talk at out uni from a dr dr in medicine and psychology, a very hard-nosed guy a 5-star talker which is apparently very rare, solely came today through connections. Tbh I liked his talk a lot how the use of smartphones etc. influence grades, brain growth and he showed solid studies. Within an "academic" ( I am making a bit fun of my uni) audience. Still, this was a for me very high-green talk value wise. Very egalitarian, no drive for using excellence while being aware, not using the linguistic toolbox for instance. Yet, destroyed every freaking question since he was extremely knowledgeable about statistics, medicine etc. For instance, there were teachers in the audience complaining that Germany spends 5 billion on digital whiteboards, and the classes and kids complained as the teachers that they want the blackboard. He mentioned a study of people in silicon valley from universities there in cs, that they preferred blackboards, while they have to work with computers. So, it was a hefty investment into digitalization, which is even harmful, for the development of the brain and did not pay out. Now the point about knowledge for me after contemplating on LSD mostly, so take this with a gigantic grain of salt is. It is way harder to let go of it, then to attach to it or gain more, if you want to follow a spiritual path. Knowledge is survival, and yes proper or applicable knowledge is meant. Otherwise, it's mostly trivia. Yet, I understood how this mechanism worked on LSD way better, since it is just nuts to let go of it. The same as doing nothing the whole time. So, if I want to contribute to humanity in some way I also need orange advice and knowledge for survival and contribution. What I don' get that if you understand this so perfectly you can see with which members to interact and not. I would not even bother to discuss and mention it, because most people resist change anyway. So, yes working on myself to raise others consciousness, for example, is better than claiming omg I reached stage xyz and become and enlightened guru I will raise peoples consciousness. Sam Harris audiobook or book Waking Up as a beautiful example from a retreat in Tibet. With a person claiming she Never has One thought again and was enlightened. Then he debunked her.. in the plane making her or him realize it again. The person was shocked. I don't embody most of the things some are just way to advanced like ... http://www.perspegrity.com/papers/STAGES background_Murray.pdf ( which I just found and explains the research behind self-identity and so on), yet chopping away at it diligently helps and also improves life quality. So, I really don't understand there is not much to complain about or why mentioned it, I sure do to, but mostly with people in real life and then I talk about it with friends. Online it's just worthless.

@CreamCat I don't know what exactly self-actualization contains without making up a definition. I listened to the .... original audiobook from Maslow sometime ago and the pyramid is explained everywhere. The point is with... spiral dynamics at stage yellow it is a different kind of political anger, it is more of intense indignation about the political situation(which is more impersonal it's not an anger which involves ones idea of one self for instance imo), values etc. It's not a psychological rant to reduce stress by cursing. The whole point about devilry is that that a devil in zen is everything that stands in your practice so theoretically, everything is a devil. My homework assignments, my schedule, my family, my cat, social media, internet, ted talks etc. Yet, it is also practice in a sense that if ones want ultimately to become the ... ultimate atman, brahman or god then it has to be in daily life and every second to some degree, otherwise it's fragmented. No way, that is going to happen. That is why I disliked church I grew up agnostic/Catholic. Then I read in a book that going to a church or religious event let's say increase serotonin and oxytocin, so bla bla you feel more bonded to others. Singing in a group and doing group activities. No, it's not self-actualization in the sense of becoming a greater version of one's self. Personal growth, fulfillment, success, happiness, health, wealth, inner freedom, luxury w/e. The point I want to make is, that I would not understand what you would regard as proper knowledge for self-actualization. Yet, I am highly curious. Because I've been listening to mostly advanced teachings and have to get the fundamentals in place, in order to grow more. What I've been doing or started doing only this year more. For instance financial situation, yet there are just things I can't do poop about, so I want to work on other parts.

A famous korean artist and critic. Quiet trippy and the sound is just crazy + video.

@tedens For me, the devil is in the details mostly. Spiral Dynamics big 5 or any other model explains differences quite well. Even using only a rational discourse big pictures are fine. I was very curious about how world events impacted the change, since this is one of the goals of terrorism, for example, to scare the public and disturb political conversation and cause a conservative stance, because of fear induced. I think history and world events are key to understand political discourses, yet it's twisted with so many characters. It's not easy to keep up with that. In that sense, I find the big picture more enjoyable relateable. It's not only deep but is broad and applicable.

@Inliytened1 Every stage changes from an I centric to a WE-centric value structure. Orange is I centric Green is We centric Yellow is I centric etc. So, coral is is I centric and truqouise we centric. That just means and this is my interpretation that behavior and norms are regulated either more on a personal or a collective level. There is not much information from the author Don Beck about stage coral if it all. Coral would and does include stage turquoise since each stage transcends and includes. Also, an important distinction is that spiral dynamics is about values or rather value codes within people. Meaning that is how they govern themselves and interact with the environment. Take the term ethnocentrism which means the folk you belong to determines the what is valued in your collective, like honesty, xenophobia, family and capitalism etc. A collective or individual of this value or value group will express this somehow in their behavior and frown upon every other individual or collective not expressing these values, socially denigrate them and marginalize them in a sense. I am going with the original definition of ethnocentrism as in Wikipedia. Ethno = folk , centrism = centric. It's relevant to politics since it is a system or map, which explains the differences in people unifying concepts used in psychology and other disciplines. ( the author is a psychologist). I don't really know what socialism or capitalism exactly is since I never studied it when I think of getting rid of socialism and capitalism I always of to think of libertarians ruling the world from their yachts. For instance, the author introduced the concept of sprial dynamics with beige, green, etc. To people in South Africa helping to get rid of apartheid by explaining that there are differences in people, by their vMems or memetic does, meaning how their world view, a value structure as described above or an organizing principle permeating thought structures, systems and various forms of cultural expressions. So, people would not be labeled black and white and they received an explanation that there are different value structures operating inside the people and that they have to talk the language of that value structure. Yellow is the first structure-aware (stage) of the whole spiral. Spiral dynamics was already used in political and social affairs, yet I can't really make out of the book how effective it was. I just finished it yesterday and it has a lot of theory imo. Which is common sense but not... common practice. Stage Turquoise includes the spiritual aspects and wants to macro manage all life forms towards a common good in response to macro problems. Like universal basic income potentially, or new ways of agriculture to produce food in countries with a lot of soil like India, to reduce the scarcity of food on the planet, while cutting down giant industries, and using permaculture or anything like that even making amendments for their history. This is more or less my own two cents. In case I got the idiom right. This would be my idea, but I don't have enough knowledge to spin a very good concept around this.

@tedens Nah, I was just curious. Because I can relate with the right wing being more dominant. In my hometown, they have a lot more placards about from the right wing saying multiculturism kills, as their slogan. Still, the majority of people don't seem to be right wing, so I was curious if there are any news. Yet, with the terrorist attacks in sri lanka and new zeland iirc, it's nothing new. I subscribed to the Washington Post, out of recommendation from leo's blog + interest in general about politics. That is why I am asking.

@NoSelfSelf No that would largely depend upon your skill. What ego is and what it not is, is just not relevant when you genuinely want to improve a situation, you work through the ego, the same with meditation. It's not like every sitting is a total bliss as an advanced partitioner. Yes, it comes down to what you want to help people with and how you want to do it, yet it does not mean that ego is not involved or even your biological, psychological or biographical self. The point is the ego obviously will come, otherwise, the "game" would be way to easy. Yet, it does not mean that effortless action or service does not exist. Similar to flow states while meditating, running, studying or listening to music, playing an instrument a high concentrative state penetrates ego. So, your actions become more free of them. A flow state is highly energetic and feels purifying and not egoic and greasy. To embody this is not easy and needs daily practice. I want to reach this place of living from. Regardless of what currently happens. The point is without sitting on a cushion day by day nothing will happen, especially without retreats. You could greatly benefit from the audiotapes of alan watts, to realize the meaninglessness of meaninglessness and how beautiful it can be to create and enjoy creation. https://www.audible.de/pd/Out-of-Your-Mind-Hoerbuch/B0161MI1A6?qid=1557492621&sr=1-1&ref=a_search_c3_lProduct_1_1&pf_rd_p=34e3b439-2a21-4dff-af95-98a7a74a1f67&pf_rd_r=4CTAGFBB7GA9TB693S8E This is IMO the best out of the 3 audiobook series I listened to and do not crank up the speed, otherwise, it just does not make sense. I started this path before actualized.org because the first video I watched from Leo was. Why I am a dick and why you don't change. I was so pissed and did not watch him for the entire year, until when he started talking about meditation. Since I just moved heavily into green from a more green/orange and could not deal with the directness of his way of teaching.

@tedens Is there a good online news service that you use or youtube channel? Something with dense information not too elaborated and complicated

@Shiva Do you have a good source to read up for the upcoming European election? I keep following American news, so no idea what happens in Europe currently.

@now is forever There are even biological differences in extroverts and introverts. This is a scientific explanation. MBTI and other typologies are just a map they are good for reflection, yet the map is not the territory... Big 5 aspects, for instance, is scientifically accepted and gave me more insights into my moral and emotional behaviors and drives as political views. While MBTI helped me more to deal with people and do not categorize them the way society does it while giving me gigantic insights into my ego self or for a more neutral term gestalt. Also, how to deal with differences in personality combining mbti and big 5 is just nuts. It's like especially when u trust ur sense... or intuitive hunches perceived by senses ... u know more why people behave that way without getting to know their whole story. It's like you understand now why people differ so much without needing to find reasons why you have a more accurate map and you can figure out the territory way greater. When I read this when I was young, I was shocked how true these things are about myself, also why I feel so different on a "psychological" or mental level from others made a lot of sense. Just by my type. For instance JP demonizes it saying it's not accurate while having read jung etc. So, I am also skeptical. Yet, open to the idea since it gave a lot of insights to what people might do not know. For instance, there is neuroscience with mbti. But, like how can I tell that is true. Also, there are ambiverts. Nobody mentioned some.

@Nivsch Even animals eat animals. Like humans kill humans. We are animals or come from them. Our behavior is even similar to chimpanzees and bonobos. Yes, racial ideology is gruesome. It was even introduced by famous philosophers IIRC Kant or someone else. Creating a racial categorization or saying, for instance, the black man can only be free in slavery. Depending on how circumstances where and the details of this small excerpt or quote, he could be right, otherwise, the person could be shot or killed or was haunted. In that sense. I never read much about the subject I read the quote somewhere. Animals depending on how you view it are not equal, on a spiritual level potentially. Yet, not as a living and functioning creature you can't for instance, say a goldfish is more sophisticated than a dolphin. Or a hornet is as equal as a bee. In that term it's relative, yet you have to consider that relative means something is related to something. So, a hornet is potentially as equal as a bee ... in terms of regarding it (holding it in a relative perspective) that it is an insect. But, for the environment and the globe, the bee could potentially provide more value because it produces honey and pollinates flowers. Yet, the hornet might kill small insects who could harm the environment. So, in context or in a relative perspective the bee and the hornet have different types of values and functions, so they are not equal. As their "right" as insects they may be equal, yet not as how they provide value. In that sense, humans are not equal to animals. Animals have their own rights and should have their own rights. Yet, we are also animals. Like we have a mammal part of our brain that is named mammal part because we are mammals. Imagine the human race contacts some alien force and the alien force are corrupt humans how have already technically advanced themselves and are fully automated humanoid robots. They don't need to eat, they don't need to sleep, they just need to maintain their functionality and the order of the outer planet/structure where they are living. Would they see us as equal? If they are superior in every sense.

That's what I thought... a planetary process ...

@Ponder How would you describe stage coral?

@CreamCat Yeah, that's the joke. Watch Eckhart Tolle saying this. I wanted to buy the book MeinKampf, yet I totally forgot this.

@CreamCat Heinrich Himmler read that bhadvagitta. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/world-war-two/9098525/Nazi-leader-Heinrich-Himmler-a-fan-of-yoga.html Hitler was a vegetarian and tried to convince people of stopping to eat meat because of animal cruelty. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler_and_vegetarianism Leave good old Hitti alone. He only had one testicle.

@Shiva I feel often that stage green just wants to have to moral upper hand, someone who comes more from a yellow perspective will for instance stick to their diet. Because they see it as "functional" and can take care of their environment including stage green personal and collective moral values, also will not try to force their viewpoint on to you or demonize you for eating meat. Ideally, a stage yellow vegan/vegi will explain the effects of eating meat, for the environment etc, stating statistics, news reports, documentaries etc. Stage green may take care of the animals and is aware of factory farming. But will crusade and convince and manipulate, since they view their moral viewpoint as superior. Ideally, they can rationally explain it, including systemic repercussion. Yet, many are just hippsters, they don't do that for years and stick for instance to a vegan diet. They just go with the hype and are relative about their food intake. You will most likely not get an answer like what vitamins does green salad have, carrots etc. The nutrition aspect is almost completely forgotten and mostly moral reasons. imo. Stage turquoise is including the spiritual aspect not only the environmental. For e.g sadghuru eating vegetarian, not crusading explaining even the spiritual reasons behind it. You hear him talk about the body as a system, agriculture as a system etc. explaining it in somehow "yellow" terms depending on how "rational" yellow is. Not sure how far this goes but this is the best explanation I can come up with, after being vegan and veggi chatting also with people who switched diets and meeting non-dogmatic veggies and vegans. For instance my aunt is dogmatic, but as soon as it is somehow against her way of living it is explained away to keep up a moral façade/front/high ground. Read Susan cook greuters paper or skim it to understand the self line. I don't think many people have done it here...(She is from Switzerland )