Echoes

@Nahm But their individuality/personality is also only appearing in you. It's a facet of you. It's like: "Oh, I can be this way. and this way. and this way. and WOW! I didn't consider I am this too!" When you say you have levels of them in your mind, isn't it all you dividing yourself into levels? On the other hand, if I only take the ontological reality without buying into the mind, it's basically a variation of solipsism. which I notice my mind wants to go there sometimes out of fear of the other. -The other- is a complex phenomenon. How do you reconcile -the other- with realizations of no objective world existing, and nothing outside of experience existing? Where is the other?? And what is the difference between -the other- in a dream and -the other- in "normal" reality? Thank you! You always get me interested to learn more about quantum physics Because of your descriptions it seems that is has actual value in life. Often I see the mentality "This is what we found out about reality in our experiments. Now let's get back to "real life" and act as if nothing happened and that it only applies to the laboratory!" @Natasha Yea, I think empathy is really the degree of being able to connect with another. Connect to their feelings/emotions/thoughts. The greater the degree of "strangeness" or separation, the lesser the ability to connect and empathise and the more fear one feels. The question is: What is this connecting really? On what dimension does it take place? And can we ever be entirely free of the feeling of separation? Nonduality says yes. But I don't know to what degree this is an idealistic absolute statement. In the end we still have to defend ourselves if someone attacks our body physically. Thank you!

@Mr Memposito I agree with the video. I also don't understand the necessity of making an impact. Escpecially because Leo's knowledge is that there exists no world, so on what to have an impact? "The world doesn't exist, but you should still have an impact on it!" My take on this: The important part on having an impact is not really the impact on the planet/people/whatever itself but the mastery process and trying to become world class in what you love <- thats where the juice is...thats where the fun and the motivation comes from. The impact of this process follows as a consequence or not, but is not the main goal or even important.

@electroBeam Maya or the virtual reality itself could be eternal, but no virtual perception alone is eternal in experience. Every object comes in and out of experience and is therefore not permanent. So the specific formations of pixels/maya/vg are temporary hallucinations, while the creative power to create these hallucinations could still be permanent

@momo When you dream and the grass is wet, does it mean it actually rained in the dreamed world before? When you leave the dream, where has the dream taken place? The occurence of the dream is not localizable in physical space. In the dream you where in berlin. when you woke up from the dream, where did the whole dream world go? It appeared "in" a non-localizable consciousness and was made out of nothing. The ego makes a false distinction between a dream and "ordinary reality" to defend it's assumed existence and constructed safety-net of a personal life story, and to avoid recognizing the unbearable reality of it's utter non-being, not knowing, and meaninglessness

All we have is experience. Whoever is experiencing this text right now: If you look away or close your eyes, where is your experience of the actualized.org forum on the computer screen? This experience here right now could not be without you. The "mind" says the text must still be there, because it's whole nature is to deduce everything that appears as a causal chain and logical laws. But only because there is an apparent causality, doesn't mean that there is an "actual" causality in the way the mind interprets the reason for continuity in events. It is not that hard to imagine that reality is able to create everything it wants without the need for the type of causality the mind sees as necessary. It is reality after all! It exists out of nowhere in a mysterious way! So why do you say "No, for a continuity in events like [closing eyes] -> [opening eyes] there has to be something real there in the meantime? Why do you set this condition as essential in a mysteriously appearing reality that IS without any logical reason for it to be in the first place? I think some people underestimate reality

I start dancing to joyful music (I can't dance at all, but if you let the body, it moves automatically ) While I dance, I think: How bad can the problem really be if I'm still able to dance like this? It's not like a bear is attacking me or a volcano is destroying my house (better not do it when these things happen) Try it yourself

@egoless Why shouldn't you be blinded by it if it is an illusion? The whole point of an illusion is to be perceived as real. Otherwise it would not be an illusion. If no free will exists, then it doesn't matter if you force it, because even the forcing is part of the happening. The best move imo is to pretend like everybody that you have free will, because that is just your current perceived reality. I think Adyashanti said "The ego starts the journey to enlightenment and truth finishes it"

Can someone explain those to me? What are all those deities like Ganesha, Vishnu, Lakshmi, Kali, etc. For example, in Hindu texts divine incarnations of Shiva are explained. Shiva and Shakti represent the dance of emptiness and form. Shiva being emptiness and Shakti being form. I understand the usage of them as sort of metaphysical or energetic represantations. Yet, there are pointers at divine incarnations of "Lord Shiva" as a human avatar. But isn't every human a incarnation of shiva then? It can't just be religuous delusion and fantasy...And it also can't just be metaphors for certain human characteristics. Never understood those hundreds of hindu gods. .

@ajasatya @Prabhaker @Leo Gura @username Thank you all! It's a very interesting and nuanced topic as far as I can see. Things I found in addition: And a beautiful text: Sri Ramakrishna and Kali: Mother has revealed everything to me "I wept before the Mother and prayed. “O Mother, please tell me, please reveal to me what the yogis have realized through yoga and the jnanis through discrimination.” And the Mother has revealed everything to me. She reveals everything if the devotee cries to Her with a yearning heart. She has shown me everything that is in the Vedas, the Vedanta, the Puranas, and the Tantra.” (p. 579.) The Divine Mother revealed to me in the Kali temple that it was She who had become everything. She showed me that everything was full of Consciousness. The image was Consciousness, the water was Consciousness, the altar was Consciousness, the water vessels were Consciousness, the doorsill was Consciousness, the marble floor was Consciousness-all was Consciousness. I found everything inside the room soaked, as if were, in Bliss – the Bliss of Satchidananda. I saw a wicked man in front of the Kali temple, but in him also I saw the Power of the Divine Mother vibrating. That was why I fed a cat with the food that was to be offered to the Divine Mother. I clearly perceived that the Divine Mother Herself had become everything – even the cat. The manager of the temple garden wrote to Mathur Babu saying that I was feeding the cat with the offering intended for the Divine Mother. But Mathur Babu had insight into the state of my mind. He wrote back to the manager: “Let him do whatever he likes. You must not say anything to him. (p. 345) To my Divine Mother I prayed only for pure love. I offered flowers at Her Lotus Feet and prayed to Her: “Mother, here is Thy virtue, here it Thy vice. Take them both and grant me only pure love for Thee. Here is Thy knowledge, here is Thy ignorance, take them both and grant me only pure love for Thee. Here is Thy purity, here is Thy impurity. Take them both, Mother, and grant me only pure love for Thee. Here is Thy dharma, here is Thy adharma. Take them both, Mother, and grant me only pure love for Thee.” (pp.138-139)"

@egoless I think there is no magic solution to this. Our compulsive thinking in time has become so habitual that we lose ourselves constantly in it. The only solution seems to be steady mindfulness practice

@egoless accept the future-thoughts and recognize them as part of presence

@SLICKHAWK I thought the same...but the danger there is to use enlightenment as a form of escapism or denial of the situation one is in. I did this and still do to a certain extent. It's a very thin line in my opinion.

Hey, imagine that a person is in a really low spot in life. Like being homeless or stuck in a shitty job. He learned about enlightenment and sees the potential in realizing the true nature of reality/self. But he also wants to escape his circumstances that make him unhappy. The person has no idea how to change his situation...no hope, no ambition, no experience, no help. The possibility of enlightenment and liberation seems like a golden carrot that promises relief and a new perspective of approaching his (perceived) problem. Maybe if the man finally experiences that he is god and all reality is a dream, he is able to redream his situation in life or doesn't see the need to change it anymore. You could say now: Why not do both at the same time? But changing circumstances in a substantial manner is not that easy and quickly avaible, and needs a high amount of dedication. So does enlightenment... But once it is understood that circumstances are not able to give lasting happiness, how to find motivation for improving them? Simultaniously, as long as no absolute understanding of reality is established, he will suffer from his circumstances. Both "projects" need full commitment and focus to succeed, and changing the circumstances without a certain degree of awareness can even fuel the frustration and depression or cause more danger than the anticipated relief. On the other hand, waiting until the awareness is there can also mean years of meaningless, soul crushing existence in a dead end rut. Enlightenment seems straight forward. Many pathways and techniques exist to achieve it, whereas circumstances in life are manifold and fare more unique. So finding a solution for a unique situation seems harder then reaching enlightenment on the first glance. This makes enlightenment so attractive I think -> It seems more easy and promises so much, but at the same time containts a lot of emotional labour, frustration and time. Changing a bad situation also contains a lot of emotional labour, frustration and time, but the path is not as clear. Can one really dedicate only half of his attention and time and split the effort between the two? Is it not necessary to dedicate his energies and commit to one thing? How would you approach this?

@momo @momo Look up Rupert Sheldrake and Morphic Resonance/Morphogenetic Fields. He is a biologist and a true scientist, who is aware of spirituality and doesn't follow the materialistic dogma of most academia. "To give some background, Sheldrake was a world authority on auxin in plants and plant hormones in the 1970s and 80s with numerous publications in nature and other journals. Then he shocked the scientific community by publishing a new theory of life based on field theory. He called the field a morphogenetic field, a self organizing field that can be used at all levels of complexity to explain mechanical biology. He claims that since matter is less fundamental than fields and energy (my cursory year studying physics at uni is in agreement with this proclamation), and materialism is based on the philosophy that the most fundamental thing is matter, materialism is no longer a philosophy with scientific support. To try to explain the morphology and evolution of complex life Sheldrake is essentially expanding field theory used every day in physics into biology and life sciences. He defines morphogenesis as the coming into being of form, the way that animals plants and even crystals come into being via some formative process. He posits that molecular biology, DNA genes and chemicals alone can not explain morphogenesis, and the morphogenetic field provides a kind of blueprint for the chemicals and biological material to follow. [...] "[...] Attempting to counter reductionism with a holistic perspective Sheldrake assigns a nested heirchy to the morphogenetic field so the field of an organelle cell is inside the field of the cell, the field of the cell is inside the field of the tissue, the field of the tissue is inside the field of the organ; and these fields work on the lower level fields of the system, giving them morphology and pattern. Sheldrake also states that the morphogenetic field is only one kind of organizing field, the nervous system is highly indeterminate in its behavior and is moderated by another set of fields, behavioral fields. Mental activity is moderated by mental fields. Social groups like flocks of birds or termites are moderated by social fields. All these fields Sheldrake refers to as morphic fields, and morphic fields are the general category of which morphogenetic fields are only one species, the kind of field for the development of form of life as we know it on Earth. Sheldrake claims that the mathematics of the field is chaos theory and other branches of modern dynamics, including some intrinsic field probability properties, as everything we associate with life in science is pretty much indeterminate over a long time frame. Just like the weather is a chaotic system so does not obey definite laws life is more probabilistic than deterministic, if you look at all the different leaves on a specific tree they all gave the same mechanical building blocks they all have the same genes and the same morphogenetic fields yet every leaf is different" Explanation and full text from here: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread939018/pg1

@Ilya Yes, you can do this in self-inquiry. Ultimately, everything has to do with the sense of self. There is also the method of "Spiritual Autolysis" by Jed Mckenna, where you basically write down everything you think/belief is true about reality and yourself and question it. If you really do this with full dedication and intent, all ignorance starts to break down and true, authentic "not knowing" can be realized.

@Ilya There are a lot of subtle and unconscious assumptions/beliefs that distort the perceiving "of" reality without you even noticing it. Beliefs who fall in this category for example: "I am a human" "Planet earth exists" "I have a face" "I was born" "I have a personal life" etc. You need to find these (subtle) and taken for granted assumptions first and truly question them, because they affect the "modus of perceiving" even if you think your mind is still

@TJ Reeves Thank your for this

@Ilya

@Shrek_Of_Justice Leo will interpret these threads as a sign of the universe to go and live in a cave! Conceptualizing is a brilliant thing. Think of what a great instrument it is when used properly: You have the ability to create whole worlds, worldviews, philosophies, perspectives, metaphors, jokes, guidances out of a spectrum of symbols and signifiers; shared in their understandings with "other" living beings. The only problem is that we create these things and unconsciously lose ourselves in our own mental creation through identification with it; investing emotional energy to the belief that they are TRUE and representing actual reality. This causes suffering of course because of our pressure to protect a fantasy of being exposed as a fantasy, and being attached to a fantasy. But a fantasy in itself isn't negative or useless per se. If we could learn to stop this deconstructive habit and see conceptualizing for what it is, we can enjoy and properly work with it "again"

@Visionary

@TJ Reeves Why do you think the brain exists at all? One could say it is necessary for navigation in the "physical" world, but then there are NDE's and OOBE's and brain scans like the one you posted. So if the brain is just a phenomenon of colour and shape without any function, not even existent in pure experience, what is it? What is its role? Just to make the game more believable and keep everybody in the human character?

@Shan Books: The Discovery of the Unconscious - Henri Ellenberger The Transformational Imperative: Planetary Redemption Through Self-Realization - Shunyamurti The Archetypes and the Collective Unconscious - C.G. Jung Ego And The Mechanisms Of Defense - Anna Freud The Seminar of Jacques Lacan: The Four Fundamental Concepts of Psychoanalysis - Jacques Lacan Man and His Symbols: Approaching the Unconscious - C.G. Jung Subliminal: How Your Unconscious Mind Rules Your Behavior - Leonard Mlodinow Our Inner Ape: A Leading Primatologist Explains Why We Are Who We Are - Frans de Waal Psycho-Cybernetics - Maxwell Maltz The Undiscovered Self - C.G. Jung Psychology of the Unconscious - C.G. Jung The Structure and Dynamics of the Psyche - C.G. Jung The Book Of Not Knowing - Peter Ralston The Art of Dreaming - Carlos Castaneda The Interpretation of Dreams - Freud Dream Analysis - C.G. Jung Inner Work: Using Dreams and Active Imagination for Personal Growth - Robert A. Johnson Videos: Check out Jordan B. Peterson, Shunyamurti, Scott Kiloby A good blog with information regarding approaches to the psyche from different psychologists is http://journalpsyche.org/

How does this fit to your blog-post "Everything Is Understandable"? The quoted text seems to reaffirm the paradigm that reality is the ultimate mystery. But your blog post seems to say otherwise. If everything is perfectly understood, where is the mystery and uncertainty? How is everything understandable if we try to understand from a limited perspective?

@john5170 He is a street performer in New York. His name is Matthew Silver https://www.instagram.com/silver.matthew/