Baotrader

@Nahm Can you please be more specific here? Do I need to learn advanced maths like Godel's incompleteness theorem and quatum physics to get to nonduality? Sounds to me we're just playing word game

@Leo Gura do you mean we work without caring too much if we succeed or not? I'll consider it

The truth is if you stay in some place for so long, do only 1 job/thing for so long you'll develop an EGO out of that. Retiring and being lazy is not a solution to transcend ego. But enlightenment works mysteriously. Even when you just sit and eat some profound insights about life can come to your mind. Hard to say...

@Nahm about Leo's mentality, I forgot to say what I say might be just my own projection. But look at the way Leo describes his work: He always plans. He plans his retreat, for example. He focuses a lot on planning which is the work of the mind. He even said the people tell you to stay in the now aren't very enlightened. Leo is a goal-oriented person, the type that always thinks about the future. That's probably the reason Leo prefers Sadhguru a lot. They're both the kind of people that want to try more try more, put more effort. Enlightened people's mentality is in the now

@Nahm you're starting to see my point I guess. It has to do with my work here because it shows me the contradictions in what Leo and we are doing. If Leo is consistent with himself, he'll admit that the reason he wants to attain enlightenment is to get more energy ( strengthen his psychology) and connect to infinite intelligence so that he can achieve more in his life ( maybe not materialistic achievement) but some kind of achievement like being able to invent new technology or solve the world's unsolved mathematics problems. It's still a materialistic desire. It's contradictory to enlightenment. Because enlightenment means you simply live from moment to moment with no goal, no desire, no planning. I'm not saying enlightened people are lazy people but if you look at Osho's life in an honest way, you can clearly see the mentality like "go get a job or start a business, support yourself" never entered into his mind". He even said he would never get into business. He simply lived moment to moment his entire life. It's what laziness is according to common logic. But we know he was not a lazy man. He went on teaching and teaching. However, he had no planning at all. Just imagine what his life would be if no one fed him food unconditionally? no one bought his books? He'd just commit suicide because he wouldn't want to get a job. What we can say about that type of person? Again we'd just call him a useless human being. But that's what enlightenment is. About the juice: Do you mean I care about something we have no control over? Maybe, because we're not scientists. Just like the way a maths teacher probably knows the best way is to have his student take a pill that can make him smarter but because that method is not available yet so he needs to rely on a secondary method which is the student will solve more problems. But if the second method is actually useless what is the point of sticking to it? I myself have not found a solution yet.

@Nahm I think i understand what you mean and yes it's possible that thinking is not material. If Thinking is not material it becomes contemplation. What I mean is an average man/student cannot create something new or even think of something new simply because they are just remembering what they have learnt and arranged them in a new away. No big thing can be born out of that dumb mechanical process. The last sentence of yours: "Am I a moderator? .... " Do you mean I make a projection on the Buddha and Einstein? Maybe it's just my speculation that even if the Buddha can live and brainstorm for a million year he cannot become as intelligent at maths and physics at Einstein. I doubt if the Buddha could brainstorm at all because he's at nondual state. The moment his mind wanders to some ideas his mind comes back to the present moment. So how can the Buddha be creative? What I mean is every individual is bestowed certain and unique psychology traits and brain capacity. Some people is absorbed and meant to be meditators and can never become a scientist. Some people like Albert Einstein can not become the Buddha because his mind is bombarded with ideas all the time. To be honest, I'd say meditation is for people who have reached the limit of their thinking. They cannot become smarter by academia anymore. An artificial example: A mathematics teacher wants his student to become good at maths but his student cannot become better at maths because he's reached his limit. He cannot become smarter at maths by trying to solve more maths problems. So meditation is required because through meditation a person's intelligence can be increased. A counterintuitive move for that student is to get a chemical brain surgery to become a mathematician. I'm hoping in the future science can do that.

From the absolute perspective, Yes you're right. Because enlightenment means you're flowing with life. There's no goal, no purpose after enlightenment. However, from a practical perspective, you wanna do something in life even after enlightenment. Quite frankly, I'd say whatever we want to do in life is just us wanting to piss on the universe before we die, but what else should we do? Just sit and be lazy?

Come on, you're a moderator. I bet you have done more purification work than I have. You understand what I'm talking about. You are just skillfully using words to avoid the question. Ok, if you want, I can get to the bottom of it. Thinking is a mechanical dumb process. It's a material process. Awareness is what separates an intelligent man from a not so smart man. Mathematics is a great example of thinking and intuition ( intuition is one aspect of awareness). Average students can just put together all the concepts he learned and then proved/solved the new problems in that way ( using the system). A gifted student suddenly has a theory about his mind about some aspect of that maths problem. He then goes on prove his theory and the problem solved. He himself did not need to use the knowledge in the system he learned before. It seems From a nondual perspective, we know he has intuition. And where does intuition come from? It comes from awareness

@xbcc honestly i think you should be careful with Sadhguru. He's quite egoic. Seems to me he's not realizing the deep nature of reality. He's just a very good yoga teacher. I suggest you listen to Osho. (It's just my opinion). In Leo's free will video, he leaves out 1 element: "consciousness" . However, even when you can do every thing consciously, there's no proof you have free will. For you to have free will, you'll have to believe/think you're you.

@Serotoninluv I think the truth is the people who have debating free will does not really want to experience the free will thing themselves. They just want to persuade themselves and others to believe in freewill or predeterminism. If we focus on intellectual reason alone, pre-determinism wins simply because there's a reason/cause behind every action according to local logic. However, in that logical argument, we leave out 1 very important element: consciousness. The only way to verify this free will thing is by being conscious of every action we do, even the movement of our hands for example. From my direct experience, consciousness is real and we can do things consciously but it does not mean we're free. Because to say we're doing things consciously ----> we're free we need an axiom: "We are we". There's literally no proof to it. We just believe we're we. And from my perspective, i'm not this body and brain. I don't even understand how it works. For example: IF I try to solve a maths problem, it depends on the capacity of my brain, not "me". The people who keep asking about free will already believe they're the body and brain, which is what needs to be questioned.

en@Serotoninluv Osho once said it's hard for enlightened pp to do anything. After enlightenment his body became very weak. Is it possible that peak enlightenment means physical death for the body? I have some glimses of nondual awareness and experience of no self but my body does not get weakened much. It does get weaker a little bit like i cannot sustain 9am sunray anymore. However, my sex drive increases a lot but in a good way. I no longer just like a good smell from girl but also the smell of the armpit. It's weird. I always found it disgusting before. It's like my body now wants to experience both the good and the bad. Can you share any thougths or experience? You said you had taken 70 trips?