zikzak

Testing the waters could harm. As could going directly for a breakthrough dose. I have a friend that did 3 testers. Now he doesn't want to go for a breakthrough. Is it good or bad? Who knows. I think it's a pity but maybe it's for the best. What I think is most important in the end is your friends intention. I personally think a good way to facilitate is to decide as a facilitator what the maximum dose one is comfortable to work with - also relative to the person you will work with. And then let that person decide what dose/way into it they want based on their own research on the subject and the talks you naturally will have together. But again, many ways to do it. We're only juggling a bit of ideas here - 5meo will fuck you sideways either way I hope it will be a great trip for your friend! And would be curious to hear about it.

@DrMobius Your friend seems to be well versed in handling psychedelics so I see no problem in going with a full breakthrough dose as a first. Some people prefer that. There's not much that will prepare one for a 5meo breakthrough anyway. And as you say for some people a smaller/medium dose can actually be more problematic to deal with. As he has dealt with strong psychedelic experiences before he probably knows about the game of letting go. Also you have handled 40mg IN (that's a lot dude!) so you can support from that place which is a great thing. I've had a friend doing a small/medium dose 3 times. And since he didn't have any psychedelic experience before it was a good way to get that. They were all great experiences for him and he felt them being very sensual, quite strong - but still very manageable. Then the 4th time, bam! Went for a redose and at the second dose he broke through. It was very intense with synchronized whole body movements and so on. Afterwards he was in shock that it was the same substance - in no way he had seen that coming.

What about the conversion explained on DMT-NEXUS? It's very straight forward.. Otherwise sandwich method with HCl will work fine also - just need a tiny bit more. But who am I to suggest this when you speak about snorting it as it was a finer culinary experience :-D

@DrMobius Again we are talking intranasal right? I'd definitely offer him to try vaporized instead. But that's just because I think snorting anything is annoying and messes with the experience. But if he wants to do intranasal and wants to go straight for the breakthrough then 30mg IN sounds good I think.

@Leo Gura She did 28 mg intranasally right? Vaped would be a crazy dose...

I have tried this simple conversion. Seemed to work well but haven't tried the finished result. https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=30524

@bobbyward Smoking HCL should work fine - with sandwich method anyway. I know that is what Martin Ball has done before anyways. You might have to use a tiny bit more compared to vaping the freebase. Otherwise turning HCl into freebase is pretty straight forward..

Doing an acid trip straight after 5meo would probably be an intense experience

@Be Yourself Hard to say since I didn't try DMT before 5-MeO-DMT. But DMT after 5-MeO-DMT seemed only to share the rapid onset, breakthrough quality and the feeling of intensity (but only to a certain degree). Otherwise it was very different. Much more visual and moving through visual space instead of moving more through energy and the body which I experience with 5-MeO-DMT. I too have felt other things have taken the flavor of 5-MeO-DMT. However I didn't feel that with DMT. (Small dose of 5-MeO-DMT and medium dose DMT both vaped at the same time would be an interesting experiment in my mind)

As long as you stay under 5ml you are fine I think.. Some kind of lubricant is good.. There's a small guide here: https://wiki.tripsit.me/wiki/Quick_Guide_to_Plugging

@Flicker_boy How much did you use with the HCl? Is the same amount needed wih the freebase/olive oil mix? I have seen it recommended to dissolve the freebase in a little white vinegar and top up with (luke warm) water. Would be interesting to see if it was better absorbed or not (than your method). I still find it very strange that I had no effects from 20 mg HCl and only little effects and (a lot of) nausea from 33 mg HCl. And that very high plugging doses have been mentioned in this thread, up to 70 mg HCl when I see other places where there's talk about much less being a breakthrough dose. I thought I maybe had degraded HCl but maybe not. More butt work needs to be done.

@5driedgrams What atomizer did you get? If you use the meth pipe (or a light bulb style vaporizer) a good trick is to heat in a circle around the crystals with the torch lighter first. When you then apply heat afterwards directly to the crystals the liquid being formed will try to get away from the heat but will be effectively vaporized now that it's trapped. And just as you think to yourself "Ha! I fucking trapped you, small pool of liquid" - then you(r ego) will be trapped

Haha, yes the start is 5meo spot on.

If anyone is interested in sublingual use there's a few tips and reports out there. I'd be interested in this ROA to learn about 5meo from another perspective of slower onset and milder effects. https://drugs-forum.com/threads/synthetic-5-meo-dmt-experiences.48860/#post-473156 In terms of dosing there's some info in this thread (along with more info on making gel tab)s: "3.125 mg of 5-MeO-DMT fumarate which is just enough for minimal effects. With 5-MeO-DMT, when you double the dose its about 3 times as potent so 2 hits should be enough for visual effects, and 3 should be enough for a really good trip for ME. Other people require more or less to achieve the same results as me." https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&m=19005

Being somehow ignorant about ayahuasca since I haven't done it I get the feeling that people romanticize the whole vomiting thing as something that is "needed" for the work and how it's a cathartic process. I bet it is when you puke your lungs out in a psychedelic state. But in my mind it's mostly due to bad technology. If it's sometimes does the trick then cool but I'd look into Moclobemide as a MAOI for oral DMT. Or I would look into vaporhuasca which seems to have some raving recommendations at DMT-nexus coming from people that have had more DMT experiences under their belt than the average person has had breakfast.

There seems to be a general consensus on caution towards 5-MeO-DMT with a MAOI. Also one report of death but that was with a ridiculously high amount of 5-MeO-DMT as far as I remember so all in all more of a mistake than something that just happened from a reasonable mix. But there are some positive reports out there also. And I personally think it's doable with a MAOI but one would have to be extremely cautious and also be open to risks. Even if it should not be harmful in any physical manner 5-MeO-DMT is still another beast to play with potentiating its effects and duration. Other than traditional ayahuasca oral use one could also go MAOI + smoked/vaporized. I would personally be more interested in that myself. And sublingual 5-MeO-DMT + MAOI is also a possibility. I think it's kind of a shame that 5-MeO-DMT together with a MAOI has been more or less written off since it seems to me that the bad reports mostly have been caused by recklessness. But again this is not something to play with without being extremely cautious so maybe it's good it's been written off. I'd say an easy way of prolonging the duration would be to do maybe 10mg intranasally and then vaporize maybe 10 mg that would extend the duration a bit. Or just to so as Martin Ball talks about: redose when the experience starts to fade. It seems that he usually did this with his clients doing 3 rounds. And really, 3 rounds of 5-MeO-DMT would be more than enough for almost all people I'd guess.

Look at the people that actually knows about these things. They do 3 years retreats with a silly amount of hours of meditation every day. There are no shortcuts as such IMO. Most of it is simply training. Letting the mind rest - as @outlandish says: "At best you can find the stillness at the bottom of your mind, step out of the way, and let it take you there." It's a long process for most people, it seems. Even if you should be so lucky to recognize your true nature (rigpa) it takes years and years and lots of training to letting the glimpses get longer and finally stabilize it. 5-MeO-DMT just offers a glimpse - if you're lucky. And even then you have to "pay" by experiencing your own death/disintegration and very intense landscapes of the mind. Most people I know is scared shitless of 5meo. But maybe it can speed the process up, maybe.. If you use both tactics: intense meditative training and 5meo (and possibly other psychedelics). It's rare to see this though. Most people that actually have a strong meditative practice seems to be to righteous to consider psychedelics. And most psychedelic users are not drawn to more serious meditative training. That's how I see it anyway. Nevertheless if 5meo doesn't contribute noteworthy in the long run for the meditative process it's still freaking amazing and I would wish for everybody that they will experience this freedom we are talking about here. And that's a wonderful thing about it - I remember coming out of my first experience I felt such a strong urge that everybody I cared about should be allowed to experience that freedom - but then again you don't go recommending people to experience their own death.

Yes. Experiencing from a non-dual perspective doesn't mean there's no perceiving just that the normal division of subject/object has fallen away. And yes you can also describe it when you are there. Your intellect doesn't evaporate. And this is in fact the "mystery" in a nutshell - the fact that it's possible to experience from a non-dual perspective but you are still fully capable to know this from that.

I think it's kinda bananas to do alone the first time. I was gone the first few minutes (no physical awareness) and my body was moving strongly (symmetrical patterns) and I was screaming like a motherfucker. When I came to myself I was rather confused to start with and it helped tremendously that I had my best friend as a sitter. Also it was when I looked at him I noticed where I had ended up but that might not be important in other cases. All in all, from my personal experience, and from seeing others "under the influence" I feel it's kinda mandatory to have a sitter - at least until you know what you're dealing with. And even then it can be tricky. I have seen a guy that did it: the first 3 times he did it he was lying quietly down and not much was happening, he didn't break through. The the 4th time he broke through and suddenly he did all kinds of weird shit +the symmetrical yoga. And it was very good that he wasn't alone during that period.

Indeed.

I too feel the memory of the breakthrough fade. In the beginning I would get very emotional and filled with energy when I talked about it - now I can talk about it casually. One funny thing I noticed is that (and this was the case even shortly after the experience) it's hard to remember the state I was in exactly - I mean it was very vivid for me when it happened - but trying to remember it fully my brain starts to "hurt". Remembering yourself not being restricted to yourself seems very weird and almost impossible from the normal dualistic way of experiencing, for me anyway.

It might be a little too simple? But I'm no chemist.. It being allowed to sit on DMT nexus as a kind of go-to guide seems to vouch for some kind of credibility I'd guess?

Sorry, forgot the link for this comment... @DrMobius https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=30524

This seems to be the most simple around. I have done it but not used end product yet so not sure if it's good or not...

Not an anesthetic in my experience either. Only in terms of the euphoric effect that people can get careless of physical pain to more or less degree. Compared to how utterly intense the effects are I'm quite amazed that it actually seems like a relatively safe substance if you take your precautions. One thing is if you mix it with other substances or a maoi but if you stick to following the basic guidelines. Judging from the amount of clients for example Martin Ball or Gerry has had and not experienced any serious issues (apart from Gerry that had a client that lied to him about his use of medication). That's nice to know IMO. I read about a death in conjunction with 5meo apart from the one you are referring to @AlwaysBeNice. A person drowned in a hot tub or pool under the influence of 5meo. Again this has more to do with being more or less careless and not the substance itself.