zikzak

https://erowid.org/archive/sonoran_desert_toad/5meo.htm (The 5-meo category has been there for a while)

I don't buy Martin Ball's definition of enlightenment. He says it is to be free of the confines of the ego and a clear awareness of the self. At the same time he says it's not a realistic goal to be in the non-dual state (non-dual recognition) continuously. Well enlightenment is a continuing recognition of the non-dual and of course its possible. Is it only possible for ridiculously few individuals - yes as it looks like that as of now. But is it humanly possibly, yes of course. And as you say@Leo Gura is the work done then? No as Ken Wilber also outlines there's still "growing up" and "cleaning up". But as far as reaching the full potential of non-dual recognition, the work is "done" in a way. Martin seems to express something in the lines of that he doesn't really care if he is in a non-dual state or not but that has nothing to do with actual liberation. That's just to be relatively relaxed.

A scale is totally necessary IMO.. A few mg's can do a lot and you are always more fucked up at eyeballing than you think you are

Plugging - it's not really rocket science - although being an art form in itself https://wiki.tripsit.me/wiki/Quick_Guide_to_Plugging Can recommend: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lubetube-SYLT2-Lube-Tube-Applicator/dp/B007MA8LFW "Apply controlled amounts of your favourite lubricant - in hard to reach places" "Put your favourite lubricant where you want it"

@Leo Gura Well that makes more sense that your dose was higher. So you tried both 20 and 24 mg? How can you say that rectal ROA is the best if you haven't tried to smoke(vaporize) it? Rectal administration has some obvious advantages: slower onset and longer duration. But the opposite could easily be an advantage too (sometimes or for some people). @-Rowan You'll probably get an answer from Leo also but my 2 cents: It's a matter of temperament. When I heard about 5meo I knew this was the one I was interested in and went straight for it. Was I ready for it? Absolutely not Could I have been more ready for it by trying other psychedelics before? In a way no. You can't be ready for it in a sense. In another way yes. If I was to start with other psychedelics before doing 5meo I would do as you propose yourself some of the longer longer lasting ones: 4-ACO-DMT and/or LSD (with ALD-52 or 1P-LSD you probably more sure to get accurate dose). And then sorter lasting: DMT - which IMO is a good "training psych" before 5meo. I has rapid onset and pretty damn intense in its own way.

@Leo Gura Just saw your "my deepest awakening yet" video. Your insights about quieting the mind and working on compassion are just spot on. I seem to have sensed that some of your comments online have become softer - people pick up on that and treat you with more compassion. Smart how this thing work ah And your ultimate wish for people to see reality in its totality felt very genuine. Again, amazing how it works. If one actually glimpses reality there seems to be a natural inclination to get other people to experience it as well. And of course, it has to be that way. It's such a strong meditation: to meditate on your wish for others to find freedom. And of course there are no others, as Maharshi says: "Questioner: How are we to treat others? Ramana Maharshi: There are no others" - but it's only seen fully in direct experience of reality so until then (which could be forever) this meditation is strong. Have you thought about doing 5meo together with another person? Being two people simultaneously in a breakthrough experience could be a very strong experience. (Maybe with a sitter if shit gets crazy ) .

@Faceless Jesus dude take a big hit of 5meo or STFU Time my ass. Only thing that's quite certain about time is that you most likely will have an interesting time on 5meo.

What would be really sweet is if people started to be able to open up to non dual states "au natural" without being under the influence of 5meo but as a direct result of working with it (along with other means of course). I have heard of many people having re-activations for a period of time. But less about ongoing processes that starts to deepen and cut through to non dual awareness more and more as opposed to fading out over time.

Good guide Leo. Preparing with some desensitizing lube 10 minutes before or so will make it more smooth with less burning sensations..

Did any of you experiment with using the tail end of a sub breakthrough dose of DMT as entry point to a 5meo take off? I find doing half of a breakthrough dose DMT takes me to a very lucid and full experience without dissociating. At the come down I feel full of energy with all anxiousness blasted out of the system and it seems to be a very good time to dive into a 5meo experience. Haven't tried it yet but I'm curious if any of you did?

That's cool. Just something that's nice to know beforehand. Taking what you believe is going to create a recreational experience and then you're straight into full dissolution can be a bit surprising.

Both IME. What psychedelic did you try?

@Mercurio3 Nice. What were your small doses? Kinda interesting approach to increase in smaller increments and also as you say give time to the surrendering process. There's a fascinating aspect with the smoked (larger dose) experience though I find; exactly what you refer to as not having time to open, surrender. It's a shock. But unless you have a complete blackout there's still time - it's just more of an urgent matter and it's like you are almost forced to surrender. I find both approaches/aspects fascinating. The shock effect and the more gradual opening up. It would seem that the "shock method" is prone to more "damage" or tough experiences but it might not be the full picture since I have seen quite a few trip reports where it seems like a medium dose was used and that created a difficult experience in terms of having a lot of energy going through you but not enough to present you with an ultimatum of having to surrender completely. Of course higher dose experiences are intense in themselves and the same dynamic being present for the medium dose experience is present there also to a more or less degree (and the fact that higher doses can make you pass out) so it's not a suggestion that this method is superior I'm just curious as to the various approaches. @Leo Gura What substance did you use in your "enlightenment experience" video - was it 5meo?

@Mercurio3 Judging from your two last posts which are a week apart there seems to be a 5meo experience between the two?

@5driedgrams Sure I get where you're coming from. For people not into psychedelics there's often a tendency to be very fearful and if it's not one factor it's another they'll focus on. Best way is to secretly give them a big dose of LSD. Nah joking

I bet DMT could be a beautiful entrance to a non-dual experience. I quite like sub breakthrough doses where you don't dissociate from your body. I find it more interesting to connect with people in that state than to go into hyperspace.

@DrMobius Yes I believe so too. And it was not my intention to say that it can't happen - it's just pretty rare from what I have encountered and most likely requires a massive dose as you say. One of the experiences in "DMT - The Spirit Molecule" documentary seems to be a genuine non-dual experience.

Nah dude I don't buy it There are plenty of GVG-wizards out there with perfect technique and they still just talk about hyperspace and machine elves. 5-MeO-DMT has such a specific profile to it. DMT has too much going on for it and is more of a full spectrum experience. YMMV

Yeah with 99% pure 5-MeO-DMT you'd vape 0.1 mg unknown material from a somewhat normal dose. I'd be more nervous to eat a fast food meal. Wouldn't you think it's more the nature of DMT that makes people generally not having full non-dual experiences with it? I've seen many reports on big dosages being used and it's still "just" hyperspace, mandalas and shit.. And even if you burn it a bit by taking a big dosage you still get a lot. On top of that many big dosages are done with a GVG which tends to not burn the product at all. For reference on why DMT might not likely give a full non-dual experience: https://www.transformpress.com/images/Downloads/Breadth&Depth.pdf

@Leo Gura Yes a gentle aspect is indeed very very important to remember. As regards to ROA of 5meo I still think it's very dose dependent and depends on how sensitive you are to the substance in general. Because you had some experiences with snorting it and didn't loose physical control it doesn't mean that others will react the same? Or that you would be able to maintain physical control at 35 or 40 mg snorted? I don't see how snorted or rectal couldn't bring one to same levels as smoked/vaporized. Of course with a different onset (and duration). I guess you have seen Hamilton’s Pharmacopeia "The Psychedelic Toad". The guy vomiting all over the place is not they guy you wanna be on your own. I kinda annoys me that this scene is in the show since I think his reaction is very very rare and gives toad/5meo a skewed image but nevertheless it CAN happen. On top of that if you will have a dark psychological experience (snorted or smoked) with 5meo a sitter is ever so welcomed. It can be a traumatic experience in some cases. Coming from the perspective a gentleness that you bring up I see having a trip sitter as the most safe and gentle recommendation that can be given with 5meo. Some people will always go wild anyway and do large doses alone etc. For some it works but it's raising the bet. And the stakes are already high with 5meo.

@Samra I disagree strongly with Leo that solo is the best. Not that it can't be done with success - but solo can clearly be dangerous since you can move strongly while you're not physically aware. Also possible to drop the pipe if smoking it etc. And since it's such an intense experience it can be a tremendous help to have a sitter by your side. So I'd say to have a good friend by your side is a very good option. He or she can help with all practical stuff and help you through the experience. Just make sure your friend is open minded and ready for whatever. If you are ready or not is of course up to you to decide. In a way it's kinda impossible to prepare for the full 5meo experience but you could consider to practice a bit with DMT. It doesn't take you nearly as deep as 5meo and it's a different experience but there's still the rapid onset and more condensed intensity compared to Aya. You also get to practice the technical stuff if you choose to smoke/vaporize it which is important to know.

What was the substance used?

Isn't it just a question of dosage?

Never tried IN so someone else will have to chime in on that but smoked/vaporized just comes on immediately even before you get a chance to exhale.

I'd definitely do it with a trip-sitter the first time especially. I felt it was a tremendous help to have a good friend helping. YMMV