Matt23

Charles Manson.

I'm doing NNNN this year... No No Nut November

Do you mean "Suppressing feeling and intuition"?... Cuz it seems to me like suppression is antithetical to growth, authenticity, and love or honesty. I mean, I can see how not suppressing feeling could be narcissistic and unhealthy since one could just be expressing all their shadow shit and negativity onto others: "Oh, I feel rage at this person on the street, I'll just scream at them." But the intuition thing I don't get.

I thought it be would great to get the reverse side of things in terms of the theme of spirituality. Meaning... What are ways you think a stable and strong sense of self are created and maintained? In a healthy way... or unhealthy I suppose. Doesn't matter either way. I ask because I'm realizing how unstable my sense of self has been over the years (and has probably caused much sidetracking and suffering) and that some people may have the opposite issue of spirituality; meaning they don't have a strong or stable enough sense of self to begin with, let alone ready or it being beneficial to start dismantling their senses of self. List any and all the ways you see as being contributors to building and sustaining and solid sense of self. Here's a few ideas that came to mind; Relationships: long-term and stable relationships. Consistent types of thoughts and feelings. A consistent and strong moral compass. Being clear of one's core and authentic values; either having them as consciously written about values, or even just an intuitive and felt sense of what is important and meaningful to oneself. Again, on a more consistent basis. Setting firm and healthy boundaries and facing conflict when core values and senses of self are crossed. Disciplined action and habits. Living in one place for a decent amount of time and not traveling and jumping all over the place for too long. A deep sense of "you-ness"... of what it means and feels like to be you, uniquely. Favorite comfort foods and activities. Like a favorite book, TV show, or food. Nostalgic memories... and memories in general I suppose that are consistent. ... Anything consistent that shows up for a person I suppose.

Really interesting. I especially found this part interesting: Cheers for the share.

Feeling secure in oneself, confidence, self-esteem, a positive outlook and hope that one can handle life, live up to and fight for one's highest values and potentials, ... feel warm within since one isn't constantly plagued by internal strife from feeling unstable and ungrounded.... ermm... follow through on long term disciplines, habits, and goals.... lots of stuff. I imagine it's the difference between someone with schizophrenia who's sense of self is weak and causes lots of issues and pain vs. someone like Ghandi or Martin Luther King Jr. who had strong, healthy, and stable enough egos to follow through on their highest values. I think many people get confused here and maybe in spirituality in general that having a strong ego is somehow a negative thing. I think that's total B.S. Sorry for my negativity. But I feel frustrated and like people don't listen or hear me or others when people say, often in spiritual circles, "why develop a healthy and happy ego? You should transcend it" when I think ideally you do both, or that some people should really be focusing on developing a self that feels strong and positive and healthy and can function in the world, a self that one is proud of and feels good. Rather than a self that is in pain, weak in not standing up for one's values, not discplined, etc.. I just think you gotta do both and not necessarily at the same time (differing per person). @BipolarGrowth Focus on what you really desire most and become that. ... word. Sounds positive and well n good. I appreciate all your comments deeply. Thanks.

Coming from my position, I feel quite disturbed, almost nauseous frequently, when I feel I'm too detached or not "solid"... and understand that this is very difficult to explain and that the words I use to describe this experience may be used differently than how you view them. I suppose it's like an unhealthy and negative sense of not having a self rather than an uplifting and peaceful sense. Or perhaps it's just a more disturbed sense of self... I dunno. Like being on a bad mushroom trip; no stability of self, being too unstable mentally/emotionally and in terms of your sense of self and who you are... insecure... too in the clouds and open... hard to explain. But from this POV, I do desire what I think "normal" people experience as a more "solid" and stable ego, even if that is taboo in spiritual circles. It just seems so much more comfortable and secure and less fearful, traumatic, and "sick"-feeling... More peaceful actually. ... Interestingly, this feeling seems to not happen when interacting with others, like at work, and seems to happen most when I'm walking the streets seeing others yet alone. ... I don't know or think it happens as much when I'm alone.. though perhaps it still does to some degree. Maybe I get ''lost'' in others somehow.. I dunno. Words. Interesting! I will contemplate that a bit. Cheers. Good reminders.

Check out these guys. Basically, they took MBTI, said "we're gunna science the shit out of it and see if we can actually track data", created their own very specific definitions for their terms, and created a specific binary checklist they go through to type people. Their goal is to get personality typing accepted into the scientific and university cultures. They have like 512 or something subtypes to the original MBTI 16. They get videos from people and go in separate rooms to type the same person. Out of the 512 subtypes, they say they've gotten the same type around %85 percent of the time and have so far typed like 4000 people I think. They have a website and tons of YT videos if you're interested.

If it feels healthy, do it. See how it goes. Healthy vs. Unhealthy suffering. Cold showers vs. Guilt and physical pain from eating too much today. I suppose anything unhealthy suffering can also be seen as healthy as well since it may lead you to change and grow in the end... It all be perspective I suppose. Maybe getting clear on why you want to do it is the wisest way to determine whether you should do something or not. And feeling and seeing if that motivation seems healthy or unhealthy, positive or negative, coming from love or fear/hate.

Obviously it's relative. But for shits and giggles, I'm gunna say... The habit of bringing awareness to what is happening right now; externally and internally. Just being able to go through life, getting knocked around, losing consciousness of what you're doing and what's happening and just going on auto, and then being able to reset and get back on track with awareness and slowing doing and being more aware of what you're doing so you can catch yourself if you're doing something out of alignment and then adjusting and realigning from there. But it starts with knowing you're out of alignment.

Try seeing how much you draw the conversation back to yourself when with others or how many times you use the word "I" in convos. Likewise see how interested you are in others' when in conversations and ask them things or say things that don't bring the convo back to yourself or say things that make you seem better than, trying to impressive, be funny, etc., to a degree that's often and which can be off-putting. You might start to see people like move away from the conversation and not keep the convo going if this is the case. I think I notice this a lot with myself. Lack of concern or love or appreciation for others, and if there is, it's mostly a superficial concern that's just meant to "get you by" socially and ultimately make you look good and acceptable to others. Also, strangely something that I think gets missed in discussions about narcissism, is a deeper insecurity in oneself. I've recently been watching some videos on narcissism and borderline personality disorders (some are starting to think these are on the same spectrum along with histrionic personality disorder), and I think several experts in the field mentioned something about how often narcissistic behaviors and traits are really just a cover to protect a deeply vulnerable ego-structure underneath, and that even in therapy when successfully treating narcissism there's a sequence that goes from narcissistic -> dependency with the therapist (unveiling the insecure core) --> to hopefully a stronger and more secure ego-structure. If one doesn't feel lovable, perhaps from wounds as a young child, then that core lives on and the person thinks their true ego-structure isn't acceptable to others, so they build a facade (a 'persona') which is designed to build themselves up in a false way, thus protecting themselves from their deep feelings of inadequacy and unlovability. Quite interesting. Also consider there to be different degrees of narcissism. Ranging from healthy (being able to set firm boundaries for oneself, have ambitious goals, love oneself for oneself in a healthy way, etc.) all the way to pathological narcissism where the person actually gains some pleasure in hurting others and misinterprets reality and others (often in negative ways). Other signs: Few close relationships (trouble maintain any close relationship), and many superficial relationships. Mental health issues. Fears of being humiliated. Seeing others as either better or worse than you; constant comparison without equality. Probably a sense of emptiness/drained/lack of meaning and lack of a full and satisfying sense of self. -- maybe. Here's a vid:

So, I just moved in with a woman a month or so ago, and I'm really not feeling great with her. Part of me thinks it could be a good opportunity for growth, honest and open communication, and boundary setting practice. But another part of me is thinking this could just be unnecessary angst and stress that is best handled by leaving. I don't really know the best course of action. I've moved around a lot during the last 10 years, and not developed any stable relationships (intimate and otherwise). So part of me thinks this could be me just confronting what I've been avoiding. Also though, life is short and I want to enjoy it. I also want to be growing in a healthy manner and not backsliding or creating unnecessary stress on myself. I've battled mental health stuff quite a bit and tend to experience lots of stress. So I dunno. What would you guys do? What ways do you make and sort through these types of decisions? She's like 55 or something, I'm 29. I see the wisdom in both scenarios: Stay and use this experience as a growth opportunity. Leave and heal in a more tranquil and relaxed atmosphere to gain perspective and love.

I tend to agree. I hope it's better.

Cheers.

I totally get this and am in favor of it. It's just that I've been doing and "starting" with this basic stuff for sooooooo long, years, and feel I'm not getting anywhere fast. So I'm getting pretty fucking frustrated. There's a point when doing the basics doesn't work after doing it for so long and nothing significant is happening, it's time to say "Ok, this isn't looking right. I think something deeper is happening and I need a lot more intensive help than just mantras, diet, exercise, socializing, etc. This issue is stronger than that." In all fairness, I do feel a decent level of baseline improvement and goodness over the past few years. A subtle yet satisfying thing. Still, it seems like something more is going on than just the regular self-help basics (again, I'm not condemning those things either. I find them helpful). Ya, I saw it. I liked it I think. Cheers. It's amazing how stubborn some things can be. Ya, I do get this sense just with the label "illness" of badness and just this whole social-mental stigma and negative association with it. It's like we need whole knew words and labels to use and frame these phenomena to make people feel more positive and less awful about these things. True. I think of all the times I've considered myself to fit the bill for one of the diagnostic categories, this time BPD actually feels positive and relieving. I've even started to just ignore all the more chronic and disruptive negative emotions and thoughts. Chalking them up to BPD. It's like a weight lifted; no more need to constantly "deal" with all these emotions and thoughts etc., it's like I can just rest and be like "Phew... man... it's not "real" or "me", it's just BPD so I can relax and let it go easier." I dunno if I explained it quite right. Maybe it's healthy or not. Dunno. Either way, I do feel more cmoforted and like I can get more help and understanding and support etc., cuz for most of my life I've felt like explaining this stuff is so complicated and I can't get others to see what's happening, gain sympathetic support (healthy; as in I've felt like I can't really ask for extra support and people wouldn't help me in that way since I've assumed that what I experience is just normal and regular and haven't had a label/disease to point to to be like "Hey! I do need some extra help here yo!", even though I go through a tremendous amounts of stress, emotional dysregulation, and relational vulnerabilities). Aaaannnnyyyywhoo. Ya, double-edge. But I've put off getting a diagnosis from fear of possible negative consequences for a long time now, and feel that this would be a positive thing. So maybe it's time to just bite the bullet and see what happens. Assuming I even get a diagnosis, let alone a BPD one.

Ya, seems like a wise bet to go small as possible. I think I might have slightly different issues (yours being more anxiety based if I'm hearing correctly). I think I might be on the Borderline side of things, which deals with a whole host of symptoms, anxiety included. I'd be interested to see what medications they recommend for that. Though, I also hear that the mainstream view and treatment of Borderline disorders is that it's a developmental-attachment based disorder and requires intensive treatment which includes medication, not only getting counselling but having a team, and skill building (relational and emotional regulation skills, etc.). So it seems like quite a biatch to tackle. But better than not doing so I suppose Though, again, I am only diagnosing myself so, I dunno. Could be way off. Did you try any non-pharmaceutical medicines like herbs, mushrooms, or supplements? All valid. I suppose it's all about how one "holds" the labels etc.. Even if the counsellors are well aware of and speak of these labels with their clients in terms of "This is only a label to help us determine the best treatment for you. It's not that we're saying 'You' are this." I can still imagine myself identifying with it and even using it as an excuse to let myself "slide" a bit on my personal growth.

Did you manage to get of it afterwards? What was that process like? Or are you still on it and feeling it's a positive thing? True. Maybe that's part of why I dislike it. On the other hand, it can drive treatments that work and receive better help.

Fair. Maybe all those things with identifying with the diagnosis are already things I believe about myself, or are just defenses to stop me getting one. Cheers

Ya... more options needed. Also... this assumes people know their center of gravity. As they talk about, it's not something easily see for oneself. Like I doubt there's 8 people on this forum who would take part in this questionnaire who would be at a Stage Yellow center of gravity. There's also the assumption are even centers of gravity, which has been debated.

Doesn't that imply that people have a choice to awaken or not? That goes against some things I've heard about the process. Like, you can't will yourself to awaken. All you can do is create the conditions to increase the chances that you do. Like meditating on retreats and doing psychedelics. They'll increase the odds you'll awaken the more you do them, but in the end, it's not like a choice you make where you say "Ok, I'm gunna do it." It's more of just a thing that spontaneously happens. Though, again, I have no idea.

Ya. I literally have no fucking idea why you're so caught up on the woman thing or why you're making that assumption. Seems like it's coming from your own stuff. As someone who's gay, I gotta tell you, I feel more comfortable living with woman than I do with men. That makes sense. I am fucking tired of doing this... of living with so much stress. And moving again just creates more of it. Always trying to find new places to live n such. It's a fucking headache making all these decisions. Maybe I'm just so used to stress that it's where I feel normal and am used to it. Like that's my homeostasis. Fair as well.

7 Habits of Highly Effective People I wouldn't say it's about trying to push oneself, develop discipline, and that sort of thing. It's more about how to work smarter and more aligned with your values. It's also about aligning with internal principles rather than reacting to external stimuli. I haven't finished it all yet, but one of my favorite lessons is... Effectiveness vs. Efficiency Basically, you can be really efficient at doing the wrong things. For example, you can be the fastest to get to the top of a mountain, but if you climb the wrong mountain, all of that is worthless. So the key is to first get clear on your core values, goals, and what you find most meaningful in life so that any actions you take won't be wasted on superfluous and irrelevant stuff (even if those actions are performed excellently).

I suppose you can look at any issue through multiple frames. But the dominant frames I've used are probably... Mental health/trauma leading to emotional turmoil, leading to not feeling settled and secure in a place long-term (including forming long-term relationships), leading to not developing mastery in stuff and getting solid momentum towards building a solid life.

@Sempiternity How many places and people have you lived with? What has your history, background, and experience been like? How old are you? I ask since I guess I trust someone's advice more if they have more life experience. No offence meant.

The other practicalities of the situation are... The location here is pretty decent. A 5 minute walk to both of my jobs down the road. In the end, I'd like to be living in a different part of the town that I've come to feel really good in. So if I found somewhere in the place for a reasonable price I'd take it. There's another place I'm looking at which has cheaper rent, a lot more positive feel for the roomie. Though it's further away, a much smaller living space. I'm considering just taking this place in the meantime. Though, I'd hate to leave her quickly if a spot in my ideal location of the city came up. That's another thing, deciding whether or not to just hold on here till I find a place in my ideal location in the city, or to grab another place quickly and then wait. I guess I just want to find a place where I feel positive, healthy, and chill and comfortable in. Obviously part of that is on working on myself. But on the other hand, I would like to be more easy on myself and be more forgiving I suppose. I also don't want to keep on jumping from one place to the next, so finding an ideal place long-term would be, well, ideal.