Matt23

Sorry to hear that. Tough situation. I wouldn't know what the right call to do is. I guess try as best as you can to see the whole situation from a 3rd person-perspective (or God's perspective if it feels right to you), enabling you to detach and not be clouded by emotions and see more clearly. I hope things get better. Wishing you and the people involved well.

This work comes from an article by Bonnitta Roy and the work of Jaak Panksepp, Diana Fosha, and Eileen Russell. https://bonnittaroy.substack.com/p/the-affect-streams?token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjo4ODkwNjY3LCJwb3N0X2lkIjo0MzY1MTA5MCwiXyI6Im5oR1lHIiwiaWF0IjoxNjM5MTgzMzI2LCJleHAiOjE2MzkxODY5MjYsImlzcyI6InB1Yi0zMDI4NDciLCJzdWIiOiJwb3N0LXJlYWN0aW9uIn0.pekkZv7NjWMvPh_yiw_8JoePRZpGGS4mJE8j1klz9xE Jaak Panksepp identified 7 primary affect streams: LUST, PLAY, ANGER, SEEKING, FEAR, CARE, and PANIC. Each affect is present from birth. Affect vs. Emotion: Affect: neurochemicals, pupil dilation, breath rate, heart rate, sweating, muscle tension. EX: A dear could be experiencing the 'FEAR' affect stream, yet not feel fear the emotion since that would be counter-productive to getting out of the way of a car. What the dear experiences is alertness and different physiological processes and state-changes. Emotion: The regular feelings we all experience and associate with words like fear, guilt, joy, love, shame, etc.. usually in the frontal torso (belly, chest). Affect to Emotion When a baby falls down, it will experience an affect-state shift (change in heart rate, breathing, muscle tension, etc.), but it won't necessarily know what that means. So, it will then look to a primary caregiver to see how they react and then use that to interpret how to feel about the state shift they just experienced. If the primary caregiver responds with a more open and expanded disposition to what happened (e.g. perhaps saying "Oh, look at what happened!" with a big smile and relaxed posture, indicating it's ok) the baby will then interpret that affect with more positive associations and emotions. The opposite is true if the primary caregiver responds with a more contracted disposition (e.g. fear, wide eyes, perhaps saying "OMG Baby! Are you ok! I need help!"). This is how certain Affects are imprinted with either more expanded or contracted emotions and associations. Groupings Eileen Russell saw that each affect, besides LUST, was potentially associated across vagal tone. She saw CARE and PANIC affects functions for connection. She saw PLAY and ANGER affects relate to mastery ("Because that's how we learn). And she saw SEEKING and FEAR affects relating to tremulous since it's how we "tremble" with excitement on the boundary of fear and seeking. Spiritual Path Groupings Bonnitta further identified connections between the spiritual path and each group. Mastery stream = PATH Tremulous stream = GAOL Connection stream = BASIS Awakened Modes Bonnitta Roy saw Eileen's research and saw how they connect also to "Awakened modes" of each group. Mastery stream = Wu-Wei (or Effortless Action) Tremulous stream = Awe Connection stream = Universal Compassion Expanded Modes Mastery stream = PLAY Tremulous stream = SEEKING Connection stream = Care Contracted Modes Mastery stream = ANGER Tremulous stream = FEAR Connection stream = PANIC Deeply Contracted Modes Mastery stream = RAGE Tremulous stream = DREAD Connection stream = GRIEF Exercise For a week, see monitor and observe yourself going through each of the affects, identifying when you are in each one. Tip: wear a wristband to remember (thanks Leo for that hack:)) Tip: put on alarms throughout the day to stop, become more mindful, and observe to see which one you're probably in or most identify with. Remember, it's not emotion we're going after (not those things in your belly or chest), but more physical sensations. Tip: I know it's a hard distinction to make, and is one I'm still confused about. But, if you feel caught with emotions, try to instead focus your attention over your entire body, doing a more expanded observing of yourself rather than on specific emotions. See what type of state your in. Are you seeking something? Are you desiring or in a more care-connection state? Or are you in a playful learning, skill centered state? Good Luck! And have fun Also, I'd love feedback on how you found my layout and summary of the article. Did it work for you? Improvements? How was the exercise? Cheers.

Hm... Interesting. Well, let's see what happens.

Cheers. Will do.

In jobs I've had in the past, and life in general I suppose, I notice that I seem to often be quite forgetful of things (I dunno if it's a lot or not as I don't have anyone to compare with). Practical and physical things. Like leaving and forgetting objects around (e.g. I left the lock to our chairs outside today at work and they were taken, forgetting to fill a car's gas tank, etc.) and also working memory: things like just remembering orders and keeping track of things in the world. For example, I work at a cafe and have to remember people's orders. Today I messed up I think a few times in remember what they said, I did that last week as well, and my boss seemed to be frustrated at that. But, I dunno, I just wonder if I'm making more mistakes, being more forgetful, and maybe not having enough mental brain power or capacity than most people (perhaps a cause of not enough mental capacity is an overload of emotional stuff happening). I guess I've kind of always felt and seemed to feel very anxious and pained or something and pressured with having to do things like that... even math I felt similar and in school. Stuff with details n stuff like that. I felt I struggled a bit all through school, especially with math and languages (french in particular). Like, I passed math 11 with 52% (I think my math teacher was being nice). Math had always felt like I my mind could keep hold of the concepts. like I'd get it then not. Either way... a little tangent... But ya. I just get the sense that maybe my mental capacity isn't as robust or strong as others... So I'm wondering... If this is actually the case or maybe I'm totally normal/average. If I am having troubles (and I seem to and feel I am and, in any case, want to improve it), then why and how can I improve them? For some reason, the "why" is a big one I feel a strong desire to have answered... I suppose it could be many things... perhaps some deep seeded fear or belief around failing, being capable or not, being alone or abandoned, which might make me either tense up from fear and thus narrow my cognition. Or perhaps it's a belief that makes me unconsciously make mistakes. ... I do remember Leo talking about how clumsiness is a neurosis. I've noticed that as well... Like the more fear I have, the more tense and rigid I get, and the more mistakes I make. .. Fear = narrow and rigid mind and body = not perceiving clearly / truly = not seeing all possibilities = making mistakes ...? I dunno. What do you think about this subject? Do you see it play out in your own life? Have you dealt with it and previously overcome it? cheers

No weed (highly irregular if I do. I try to sleep good. I mean, I usually do like 7+hours. Diet is decent, try organic as much as possible, no wheat, sugar (rare), dairy. Good reframe. Ya, could be. I suppose part of the it is just not being able to know/see how others really are so I don't know how "good"/"bad" something is. Just trying to make things work.

Cheers. ya, defs something that happens. Somewhere in the middle, ya. Could be something to consider more perhaps. Ya. Might be something good to look into. Definitely memory and/or just not seeming to be as quick to understand stuff seems to be something I've always struggled with, even in childhood and growing up.

Ya. Hope so. IT BETTA! In any case, life feels better on the whole. So, improvement no matter external situations seems to be happening over the long run.

Spanks . Love you too. Am failing to see the connection with the analogy to this situation... But no mind. Someday perhaps I will see haha

Thanks for the ideas guys n gals. Helps to know peeps is there in any case and some level of understanding is happening. Cheers

I think you're over-estimating how much negative feeling and judgment I have towards my bosses. Haha, I don't think lack of judging myself is a big issue for me lol. It seems I do it more than enough (and I don't think any amount is helpful--- "judgement" in the negative sense, not the "critically looking as objectively as possible at a scenario in order to improve" sense). It just seems like bad advice for me at the moment. maybe since it's already something that's happening in spades. Dunno. But allowing it to be is probably wise. I probably feel more like a failure sort of. Like fuck.. ugh... not again matt - sort of thing. I mean, could they have given me more warnings about this? Maybe. Might of helped. Dunno. But I mean, honestly, I don't think they are bad. Sure, I feel some negative emotion to them. But it's not a huge deal. It's probably just some shit I have that's not entirely fair or understood. But, I do get it. Like I said, practically speaking, it makes sense. They are probably concerned with money and their image and standards etc. I assume they would, .. .I would anways probably. But I suppose I'm more caught on they idea that he said of me not caring and not wanting that to be something others associate me with. So it's an image thing. Like, I dislike when people don't have the truth about how I feel or experienced things. "STory issues". But again, I don't feel too caught on it at the moment. Not in an angry way anyways. There could be some there I'm not aware of though. But at this point, I'm more like "Fuck, now what? How can I be better? What's going on here? Really? Like, it seems I have issues about this stuff over the long-term so how do I make things better?" I think part of it, maybe a large part, I'm feeling at the moment is something like a humbling feeling. Like my self got hit with a fuck up and now is like... maybe i'm not as good as I though. Maybe some "I'm not good enough" beliefs happening. Or feeling incapable. Doubting my own abilities. So I feel maybe less caught up in them and more about me, my emotions and feelings about it connected to my performance, abilities, etc.. Feeling like a failure maybe. Feeling sad-depressed probably. Like fuck, I feel like shitty about myself. Not really about them. I'd actually feel a bit ashamed to be with them right now... like I fucked up, it's my fault, etc.. Like I did bad. Maybe. Dunno, it's hard to say exactly. But maybe it's a good thing too. Any experience is valid and good enough. Make the most of it anyways. Feeling like I need-want some soothing. Something to help me through it and feel-be ok and better with it. Like, not letting it be a dragging force about me and my self-esteem. Just not letting myself go downhill about myself and thinking I'm really worse than I am... Just not letting myself be hard on myself. Maybe that's a big part of a practice worth doing at the moment. Am using these threads to process this stuff. Cheers.

No. Absolutely not being an asshole. I actually laughed out loud when I read the part about me wanting to lose that job. Maybe I didn't enjoy it. Maybe subconsciously that's something I made happen. Dunno. But thanks. I haven't fully digested what you wrote. But I will and will respond once digested. I guess I'm just really wanting to get a better ability to remember things better and be more functional... but actually, upon writing this, I felt like no, it's not what I really want. I desire to just rest and be and left alone and be alone and enjoy my time alone. to be with others maybe is something I find difficult and I desire to be with myself and allow myself to be alone. To make things alone. Maybe even just work alone. I dunno. It's like ya, I don't really want that memory thing solved, but part of me is like "Fuck. I gotta learn how to be more effective (e.g. remembering stuff) in the world or I ain't gunna be able to support myself." --- So, I dunno what that means or how it will work; might be things like supplements, heavy metal detoxing, and stuff like that (i.e. fixing hardware issues), or stuff involving psychology and awareness (i.e. healing the software), or maybe it's interpersonal stuff (i.e. interface issues). Dunno. Could be a combo. Thanks for the repy Right. But also there's the part about actually being able to climb the tree in order to get the fruit and just survive and support oneself. This is kind of the part I feel maybe most concerned about. I gotta learn how to support myself in some way that's sustainable and feel (and actually Be) able/capable on a practical level. So just learning how to improve cognition and memory etc, learning causes to issues relating to it, etc.. Again, though, not saying psychological-emotional stuff wouldn't help either (like being more accepting and unconditionally loving of those aspects). Nice. Sounds something like worth looking into. Cheers I wouldn't go that far. I mean, I really don't know in the end how much of his interpretation of things came from a place of "unreasonableness" (like just not liking me for some shallow neurotic reason--- which I really doubt). But I suspect part of the equation was maybe just like trying to run a business and just financially not being able to afford too many losses. That's understandable to me. If I was a business owner, I'd probably be a bit uptight about how much my employees made a mistake.

Just got fired. My boss said it was because it seemed I didn't care. He also said I had missed an order twice, accidentally broken the cash register which cost him $400, and yesterday lost the chair lock, and that he demands more/a lot from his employees. (I would also peg the owner's center of gravity around high Orange/ low Green, or the Achiever stage in Susan Cook-Greuter's model of ego development. So I dunno, if that model had any bearing on reality and how much love and development and caring a person has, I don't see them as very unreasonable or "good"/nice people... combined with most of the interactions I've had with them... they seem like good people). He even said he spoke with others about me for feedback. I'm interested and curious to really know what they said just to fucking understand what really is wrong or happening. I don't know. Not like so I'd know who said what, so without names. But just to know what others' perspective of me is so I can have that information to help work on myself etc.. I understand the part about not feeling/being able to afford those mistakes as a business and practically speaking. But I suppose what gets me a big and I don't really see, know, or really get/understand (maybe) is the part about not caring and how he connects that to my mistakes... Or even if I didn't care enough or something (compared to others). I even asked him, compared to other employees he's had in the past, if I made more mistakes than usual. He said it was a bit unusual. I just want to know what it was really, and what is happening. I feel most of my life I've sort of lagged behind on the cognitive aspects of things. At least when it comes to being with others. Maybe alone I feel more clear cognitively or something (I dunno about this part, but the first part I feel is true somewhat). Maybe I don't care as much as others and I haven't been aware of it and maybe this causes me to not work as hard. I feel I really do try to do a good job, work as much as I can, let others know if I feel bad, and that I do value doing well and good at my jobs. I'm beginning to question this. This is my experience anyways. So, maybe compared to others I'm not as good or high up, but maybe as me it's where i'm at and feel better maybe than I used to... Story story story. I dunno.

Ya. Sounds wise. It's something I've been thinking more recently. Even though i have this fear of not doing it and "lagging behind". True, I could get one later. One thing though is that I find it difficult to make money and maintain jobs (just not being cognitively sort of forgetful n maybe not having the bandwidth sometimes.. not sure) and just life in general, so maybe part of the indecisiveness and fear i feel around this choice stems from feeling not confident in making money after I spend it what i have for school. So making sure i spend it on that which will develop me be most profitable seems high priority to me. Cheers

@Loba Cheers. Ya, slippery shit.

I noticed these past few days, as I've been off work sick (though, I suspect, work may be "covering" some of these feelings), that I think I have a decent amount of loneliness or feelings of disconnection and grief. I notice, I believe, I get a lot more into my head (theorizing, conceptualizing, thinking about the future, plans, etc.) when this happens (perhaps as a cover for the feelings) and I end up getting like a huge overstimulation of information. I'm wondering... What is even loneliness? What are its causes? Do most people feel off and on throughout their life? Is it simply part of the human condition we must get used to and accept and simply feel/work through as it comes and goes? Or does it have real "medicines" that can help people overcome it totally? If so, do these medicines work strictly on our interiors (like meditation and therapies), or does a "cure" for loneliness demand, at least in part (or for some people), an exterior, interpersonal medicine (i.e. developing long-term, authentic, honest, fulfilling, and deep relationships with a few people)? This is a big question for me. Also, could people at different stages of their development require different "treatment" for their loneliness (i.e. some people may require more of the external/interpersonal medicine while others may require more internal medicine)? Like, I'm familiar with Leo's take on it (at least in one of his videos, maybe not anymore) of "Don't let anyone tell you the solution to loneliness is going out and meeting more people." From my position, this is where I think nuance is required since this piece of advice could be taken poorly if someone is in a state or stage of development where being alone could be even more harmful (I'm thinking of people who go into hermit mode but in a really unhealthy way, as an example, to just avoid pain associated with others). On the other hand, I do feel there could be some sound logic here in a larger or ultimate sense; yes, maybe not everyone can or should be just sticking it out alone all the time for them to be healthy. But, if you want to ultimately overcome loneliness, it's done by facing it head on and overcoming it alone. What do you think? Lots here, I know Am open to discussion. Would love to hear from people who've really tackled and wrestled with this in their lives and think/feel they've some insight into how this all works and what worked for them. Cheers

HAha. Duh. Ya, I "know". What was said was more telling what was being felt as a felt sense belief thingy in the body and mind. Intellectually and consciously I'm like "Ya, well duh that'll never be found." That obviously isn't gunna happen. It was more of a "Hey! Lol. I'm still having these urges to find a solid self, but I really know that that's a stupid and fruitless endeavor." I just wrote it for fun, on a whim like. Just like chasing anything in life. Ultimately it's not gunna completely satisfy, but we do it anyways and, maybe it's even still healthy to do so (to various degrees). Even Leo recommended chasing "lower" material desires n such till you exhaust them. I imagine that's a similar process with this "finding oneself" thing; sure, logically and using the rational conscious mind, I don't really think it'll do or go anywhere or that there's a self to be found. But emotionally and deeply, that desire-belief is probably still functioning perfectly, so letting go of that might take more than logic and may take actual life experience and getting constantly proven wrong and demoralized by reality to finally say "OK FINE! This is a truly fruitless endeavor! I give the fuck up!" Lol.... But that might take a while. It's more like just a deeper thing that'll probs take a while to be completely let go of. Just like you probably don't fully believe what you said or have fully let it go yet, YET, still, consciously, rationally, and logically you can know it's silly to chase to such things (though, I dunno, maybe you have). But likewise for this dude. I ain't gunna spend my days doing that. I've done it in the past and realize it doesn't go anywhere. It's just there's still probs residues of emotions-beliefs-hopes-clinging that still wants that. But I realize it's not there. At the very least partially. Anyways, I get your message. Wise words. It'll take a while to fully appreciate that (in a full-body holistic fully embodied way). Cheers. Enjoy

IS there a guideline about collaborating together, getting together, making stuff together? ... If so, that seems silly.

Nah. I interpreted it as like if one has a lot of insecurity within them (maybe they had an experience as a child where they expressed some authentic/core aspect of themselves but it was severely chastised or neglected or something [intentionally or unintentionally]), so then alleviating all the defenses against that felt-sense of being and actually feeling it could bring up lots of insecurity since one fears they may feel that pain and rejection again. So when a person/therapist manages to sort of get that person to expose their core-self, they may feel (this is where I'm hypothesizing) vulnerable as that part hasn't "been in the world or with others" truly (since it's just been covered by defenses) so it may feel the need to be more dependent and seek protection from another attachment figure (hopeful more healthy, mature, and secure person) to help it relax with itself and be more secure and trusting of itself. I dunno. My felt-sense about it and assumptions/guesses... maybe informed by some experiences and other theories etc..

Not really. I studied some stuff more basically, and spoke with some people (one being a psychologist to discover how the process goes in getting a diagnosis: basically it can take a long time, sometimes years, to get a diagnosis (some psychologists are very hesitant to give out diagnoses at an unhelpful degree -- there's people who have issues which getting a diagnosis could/might help but they wait like years, sometimes decades before getting a diagnosis). @Ethan1 @lmfao I'd both recommend taking a look at the video below, at the very least. I tried summing it up below, I doubt I did it justice or accurately though. lol. Fucking complex shit man. I was able to ask Zak Stein, Gregg Henriques , and John Vervaeke a question about this (where does the paradigm of mental disorder fit in with how they see psychology and development) on the Stoa. You can watch here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCU0UJ_2G6E - Jump to 37:40 Gregg Henriques: Psychologist, Professor of the Combined-Integrated Doctoral Program at James Madison Uni. Developed the Unified Theory of Knowledge (https://www.unifiedtheoryofknowledge.org/). Zak Stein: Harvard grad, Academic Director of the activist think-tank at the Centre for Integral Wisdom, the chair of the education program at Meridian University. Johnny V.: You know him ... if not = Professor at the Uni. of Toronto (colleague of Jordan Peterson), created the Awakening From The Meaning Crisis series on YT (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLND1JCRq8Vuh3f0P5qjrSdb5eC1ZfZwWJ), highly recommend. Key takeaways: Gregg Henriques What a "mental disorder" is is still not philosophically agreed upon, solved, or established. The DSM has been captured by the pharmaceutical industry for decades (so you can't really start there to sort out what disorders are). Jerome Wakefield's Dysfunction Harm Analysis helped define and analyze what a biological disease was (i.e. Disease = Broken Biology [which was defined by Functionality, which in turn was supported through evolutionary theory] + a Social Evaluation of Harm). This model was then used to define and analyze what mental diseases and disorders were. It's argued, by Gregg, that Jerome Wakefield's analysis was great for the medical field dealing with biological issues, but it left out a huge domain of mental disorders which aren't reducible to broken biology. So, even though there are some mental disorders which do have a significant biological basis (e.g. severe autism, ADHD caused by contaminants in the environment, Dementia, Cerebral Palsy, etc.), there is another large class of mental disorders which aren't reducible to broken biology (e.g. low self-esteem, issues of meaning, ADHD with no toxic basis, depression, anxiety, traumatic events, PTSD, and I assume probably some things like, in some cases at the very least, BPD, DPD, etc.). Gregg thinks that this class of disorder is trackable by development, maturation, and learning which aren't preset like biology, but evolve by design. So, you can get people with maladaptive and dysfunctional behaviors and psyches which were instead caused by both/either... Sick cultural incentive, ideational, contingency, and relational structures that drive people in dysfunctional directions. People who have inadequate personal and interpersonal meaning-making structures and coping structures to help them metabolize those experiences. Both of which then results in all sorts of negative feedback loop cycles (e.g. psychological "immune" responses to those events and associations and relationships to those events, cognitive and interpersonal reciprocal narrowing [see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoBR5BPfoNo], & triple negative neurotic loops: negative reactions to negative feelings to negative events). So when Gregg sees people with issues with self-esteem, meaning, depression, anxiety, etc., he sees a psychological architecture that's working exactly as you'd expect. Zak Stein Distinguish between... Disorder Deep biological dysfunction "Hardware" issues (John V.) ADHD: from physical toxins in the environment. Disability Atypical nervous system in an environment that makes it pathological "Software" issues (John V.) It's perfectly fine and not pathological in and of itself. Disagreement Completely normative level of disagreement. "Interface" issues (John V.) e.g. Halted development caused by the person not agreeing with (thus rebelling) the culture or environment they're in. ADHD diagnosis: but the person is just ignoring and disagreeing. Distinguish between... Development Types of disorders: developmental Ensoulment Types of disorders: personality Transcendence Types of disorders: attentional and with awareness Politically... We're in a situation where people are pathologizing disagreement. The soviets did that and threw political dissidents into institutions. If you call your political opponent "crazy", then you can claim they aren't responsible for their actions, resulting in people being put in institutions. Which is why keeping Disorders, Disabilities, and Disagreements very, very distinct is crucial. Propaganda also feeds into this issue. John Vervaeke A model or way of thinking about pathology that equivocates between hardware, software, or interface issues will probably fuck things up. The very processes that make us adaptive also make us self-deceptive. How do we work this out while being responsible to that fact while also addressing individual differences? Distinguish between... Sin vs. Sickness You treat sin and sickness very differently, even though at time they can interpenetrate. Alleviating these distinctions by reduction is stupid. For me.., I dunno. All this new info and I Still don't know what's what. Where/what I am. What's up with me (if anything is even "up"). Lol... It's funny cuz this is almost the exact same experience I've had with psychologically typing myself (Myers Brigges, Enneagram, etc.). Like... I can't see myself or ever seem to get a "AHH!! FINALLY!! THIS IS ME!! Solidly, knowingly, etc. It's like I just want to really get a handle on myself, who and what I am (if anything, lol), but that never seems to happen. lol

I understand if you find this a long "way out there" shot, I would, and I'm not saying it'll work or is the best option at all. I'm just saying it's a possibility that maybe if it sounds and feels right to you maybe it's worth a shot. Anyways, I went on an Ayahuasca retreat a few years ago and a woman there, young woman, maybe early to mid 20s, came and had a red rash (I believe it was eczema as well) all over her. After the retreat was done we had a sharing circle. I can't remember if she "asked" ayahuasca to help her with her skin issue or not, but, in either case, her red rash on her arms and body had completely gone. Never know what may help. At least this may give you some more hope that you never know till you try something, so anything could possibly work. Hope it gets better

Wisely said. Nice. I also find Joe Rogan to be kind of a weird, unique, un-pinnable kind of guy. Strange. Cuz, ya, he's got this macho guy sort of persona and attitude (martial arts, hunting, whiskey drinking, etc.). But then he goes out and talks about Kali Yuga and civilizational structures and "infinite processes". Implying that he's got some weird mixture of Machismo + Openminded-Love-Guru-Psychonaught. ... To me those don't jive... But that's my mind I suppose. He's an enigma.

It may also be worth noting that... I often feel most excited when thinking about non-duality n' stuff like that. yet, I tried doing one of Shinzen Young's free meditation courses and felt it was a bit of a bore... though, that's only one course I suppose. ... So maybe taking some medtiation/non-duality courses could be a better fit. ... Like being a non-duality/meditation coach! That sounds cool and fun. lol Or even maybe going to do a longer retreat at a center or something to really get my teeth wet with this stuff more in depth/hardcore. Dunno.

See who you are, what reality is, as it is. Right now. Beyond thought, conception, or mentalization. Just this. Here. Now. Whatever is is it. All of it. Becoming one with it. Concepts aside. As a felt, lived, experience. ... But I dunno. Maybe not. lol.

Also, anyone have any tips for coaching people? I see myself as someone who might be trying to think to much about things and maybe get too complicated with stuff rather than, perhaps, listening more and catering things to the client. How much do you think is wise to let the other person/client guide you/what you bring forth vs. how much you guide the client/person? How much pre-planning do you think is wise? -- this is where I'm thinking I might overdo it, As in coming up with all these different strategies and techniques to use with the client, but then when it comes to the session, I imagine things not really working for them as I've thought of it. Maybe being too complex or just not working for some other reasons.