hundreth

I agree with this, with a few caveats. It matters HOW you consume psychedelics. Like anything else in life, the dose makes the poison. 5 MeO and Ayahuasca may both have the same active ingredient, but how they interact with your body is very different. This slow extended release of DMT coupled with purging and other traditions developed over hundreds of years and under the guidance of professionals (shamans, etc) changes this equation quite a bit - and can directly lead to physical healing in many instances. Even with gentler doses and substances, they can be harmful. So it all really depends on the person, their physical constitution, their mental well being, the context, set and setting, who is administering, trip sitting, intention, etc. Psilocybin is generally very safe and not physically taxing, but one thing we can all agree on is that psychedelics are NOT a game. You do need to be very careful any time you consume these substances.

I also appreciate his honesty. I believe we are all being honest, but the cynical side of us has a harder time believing someone's sincerity when their positions are more pallatable. It's the reason why someone like Donald Trump has so much trust from his base. The thought process is, he's said these wild things but I'd rather have someone unsavory tell me how it is than a two faced democrat speaking from both sides of their mouth. The only problem is, in Donald Trump's case he is also one of the most blatant liars and frauds.

Even if I agreed with your over simplified premise about 80 years of xyz - which I do not, you should still be upset with what Hamas did that day. Two things can be true at once.

I already addressed all that in my initial response. Israelis are not and have not been using "beheaded babies" as any form of justification for any actions. The claim was initiated by a confused Biden. Show me someone who is pro israel who is still talking about that. It's only anti Israel voices who continually bring this up to obfuscate the story and cover the actual atrocities Hamas did do. The fact remains that Hamas did infiltrate many innocent villages as well as a music festival and brutally murdered them in cold blood while celebrating and live streaming their actions. They had absolutely no military objective, the goal was to murder and kidnap as many Jews as possible. Of course a life lost is a life lost and it is always tragic... but it DOES matter how you conduct yourself, and what Hamas did that day was absolutely savage. Having intel that a military leader is somewhere, bombing them, and having civilian casualties is horrible but no where near the personal level of derangement it requires to go up close and personal and murder a family in cold blood. There is of course something to be said about how modern military practices separate us from the reality and level of devastation our actions create. This is something Israelis and modern militaries in general need to reflect on, but this doesn't make what Hamas did any less deranged.

Only the anti Israel voices are obsessed with the beheaded babies thing. Who is still bringing that up or talking about it, using it as justification? No one. Even back when the news first surfaced, it was caused by some weird broken telephone Biden phrasing. Yet anti Israel voices use this to obfuscate the horrors committed on Oct 7. We don't need beheaded babies to know what happened that day was horrific.

Not to mention that it's not true. DNA testing is not banned in Israel. The Genetic Information Law, passed in 2000 amid privacy concerns, conditions domestic testing on a doctor's prescription or court order, & that testing be done by accredited labs. Commercial ancestry tests can be purchased from abroad. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3960049/#:~:text=Genetic information law – 2000&text=The law deals with all,give genetic counseling in Israel https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/Documents/Issues/Disability/SR_Disability/BioethicsDisabilities/Israel.doc @Karmadhiwhen Jews have their DNA tested, there is a direct link to Israel present. I have had mine tested, and it is clearly displayed. So I'm not even sure what you're talking about.

This is very naive.

I'm with you there.

According to some here, Israel should be the first nation ever in recorded history to drop their collective identity and absolve. To give it up to the Palestinians, who will go on to do the same thing and build a national identity. But this is right, because of the Palestinians connection to the land and... identity. We've gone into the spiritual domain now and the question of identity. Why do we identify? Even In @Leo Gura's spiritual framework it's because he chose it. We write these stories, and these stories will continue. Maybe one day we will all slowly dissipate into nothingness. It isn't going to happen overnight.

It's definitely a big part of it but seems a bit reductionist. 80%+ of Jews are Pro Israel. Majority of Jews in Israel are not religious, majority of Jews in the U.S. are not religious as well. There is certainly a connection to the land, but then there's also having a land. My family is filled with those who've migrated to Israel from terrible situations in Iraq, WW2, and the soviet union. We all know the history and it's close to home. We don't want to be at the mercy of the rest of the world any longer. So for many of us, the greater Israel ideal is flawed and we just want to make peace with the Palestinians and live our lives with what we have. The situation isn't ideal now, but the land we have now is part of history and no less valid than any other land built on conflict.

We don't know what Palestinians knew and we don't know what Zionist leaders thought. Some of those quotes are disputed, but that's not a line of argument I care for... because I'm sure they did have these thoughts and some of the quotes are likely true. At the same time though, people are complex and so are their actions. For example, Arafat was originally one of the most hard line anti Israel fighters... he was the one who called for a single state that extends from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea. And yet, he is also the Palestinian figure who was closest to reaching a peace agreement with Israel. What we say and think in private is often very different from how we act when we're confronted with the world at large. Both Arafat and Ben Gurion are parts of a much larger machine.

This isn't what happens. Both sides make extremely exaggerated claims. Their entire identities are brought into question. It creates a lot of animosity and increased hate. We literally see how this line of dialogue has progressed. It has brought us further apart. We were much closer in the 90s when both sides were forced to sit down and negotiate. We were actually extremely close to a deal being made.

Like I said, this is selective outrage. First of all, this framing of Jews as simply Europeans is wrong. It is the same as the ethnic cleansing you describe about Palestinians. Jews were expelled from their home land into Europe. They kept their faith and traditions and did not completely assimilate into the European way of life. This is a primary reason why they were despised. As a Jew you would know the importance of being in Israel in the sense that every Jew outside of Israel has to observe each holiday two nights as opposed to one. That has been tradition before modern day Israel. Pre 1948 the connection to Israel was always there. They also were not allowed to migrate back to their homeland until the UK finally let them back in after the holocaust. But simply erasing the Jews connection to Israel and labeling them as Europeans is no less ethnic cleansing. Fair enough, but even with these orthodox Jews you need to understand that the "West Bank" as you know it is ancient Judea-Sumeria and in fact the most important historical Jewish area. I'm not saying it's right, because it is a barrier to the peace process... but also there is a religious significance to the region and it's unlike extreme Islamism which actually does want to conquer the entire world and spread.

Except this isn't what happened. You can try to create a narrative but you can't ignore history. Jews moved to the land legally. The land was occupied by the UK as it was occupied by different regimes for centuries. Post Holocaust the Jews wanted a land, obviously preferably in their ancestral homeland. The U.N. drafted a partition plan. War ensued. Your narrative pretends Jews just barged in and start pushing out natives, and that's simply not true. It's unfortunate what happened to the Palestinians, but the cause of that is not simply "bad Jews". It's a combo of the UK, the UN, some Jewish factions, surrounding Arab nations, and their own actions. Perhaps that's true but I'd argue that the fault also lies with far leftist types who continue to call into question the formation of Israel and behave as though it shouldn't exist and encourage the Palestinians to go for the whole pie. "From the river to the sea." I feel they've caused immeasurable harm to the Palestinians with these fake promises. If we want to make progress, we need to stop reliving the past and focus on practical solutions. Right now the Israeli administration is a barrier, no doubt... but it's telling that Pro Palestinian voices hate when you ask them what should be done going forward because then they need to contend with the realities on the ground. The default answer is "I don't know but it's all Israel's responsibility." Well ok you can dig into this position, but you aren't helping anyone.

The distinction between Jew and Zionist doesn't matter as much as you think it does. 80%+ of Jews are pro Israel. The land of Israel is central to Judaism and all the stories in the Torah. https://rudermanfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/2020.01.30-ENGLISH-US-Jewry-Survey.pdf Consensus from everyone? When has that ever been the case in all of history? Jews accepted the U.N. partition plan, the Arabs did not and declared war. There was no negotiations. And who are you to say what should or shouldn't be in a self determined Jewish state? You explain away all the hate towards Jews by blaming Israel, but when Muslims are criticized for their many Muslim nations having way worse discrimination and human rights issues we call that Islamophobia. No other peoples or nations on the planet are held to the same double standard as Israel. Jews just want their self determination in the land of Israel, and ideally not at the expense of anyone. Mostly they just want to be left alone. And it's fine to criticize the actions of Israel and what this current administration is doing, but there's nothing fundamentally flawed about Israel. It's here and it exists. It isn't going anywhere. I don't see you complaining about the 30 or so officially Muslim nations, and that's not surprising.

Just added you to the ignored list. I really don't have time explaining basics to someone who is still busy trying to figure out why Hitler was problematic.

In recent times it seems that the "revisionist view" has been espoused as fact and this leads to a lot of animosity. There are many interpretations of what happens during these peace negotiations. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

My only issue with what you said is "always has been." It's true Netanyahu is a barrier, but the conflict doesn't start and end with him. There have been many leaders and decades of dysfunction. Israel has had leaders who were open to a two state solution and who have gone to great lengths to get there. In one case, he gave up his life. In any event, I'd rather not go in circles over the past again because it doesn't help us today. It only keeps us further at odds. For the Palestinians to have a state you need the following: 1.) A leader the majority of Palestinians stand behind (Bibi works against this) 2.) The recognition of Israel and waiving the right to return as a general principle. (There can be specific instances.) 3.) An Israeli government focused on peace. 4.) Land swaps and the rolling back of certain settlements. 5.) Security guarantees for both states. At some moments we were close. You have to be able to keep the two sides in the same room together.

I'd personally like to see an international peacekeeping force in place. If Israelis are completely responsible for securing the border, they will always test the boundaries for potentially nefarious reasons, to spite Israel, and in some cases to sew chaos which results in civilian deaths again.

The guest on this segment does a good job describing the dynamic between Netanyahu and Sinwar.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/mediator-qatar-urges-clear-positions-gaza-ceasefire-2024-06-04/

And which nation is going to suddenly absorb 7+ million Jews? They would essentially become refugees. Maybe UNRWA can take care of them. Or maybe... it just makes sense to work towards a two state solution.

I was going to reply to @zazen that his response was very well written and informative, but that he was likely wasting his time since there's a breadth of information out there on this subject which you don't care about and have willfully ignored. I was too late. You ignored the substance of what he wrote. You've already made up your mind on the subject, so why bother asking?

What trap? You mean like the one where you sympathize and protect a poster posting blatantly antisemitic rhetoric while outright dismissing more than a handful of us who have shared valuable perspectives? I'm going to spare everyone and block you for the sake of not filling this thread with this dumb back and forth. You seem like an immature kid with this "take the L I checkmated you" BS. Hope you grow from it one day. Take care.

That's how you see anyone who isn't completely anti-Israel and that's unfortunate. I've seen many of us share valuable perspectives and also our condemnation for much of what's happening. From my point of view, there's some of us here figuring it out together and finding common ground / solutions / ideas. You see it differently, is what it is.